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Also, the leader of the official opposition should get appropriate security clearance and receive confidential briefings. Both things can be true.
Trudeau Popularity - or not (various polling, etc.)
- Thread starter daftandbarmy
- Start date
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Get appropriate security clearance =/= receive confidential briefings. Particularly if the receipt of those briefings is going to be used to effectively silence you.
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Well he hasn't gotten the clearnace or gotten the briefings, so is a moot point.
I have no tolerance for people that remain intentionally ignorant for convenience. There is nothing stopping him from getting the briefing and publically saying the allegations from Trudeau are lies, or that there are LPC MPs with similar allegations.
I think pretty much everyone on here with time in the CAF has knowledge of confidential things and can still speak about generalities on a lot of it without getting into anything that breaches confidentiality, so this is a pretty weird spot to hear people making that position. The only thing he won't be able to speak about is specific information that is confidential, which he can't speak about anyway because he hasn't been briefed on this, so it's a circular bullshit argument.
Refusing to get clearance and a briefing is a gimmick, nothing more, but pretty much on par for someone that has never had a job outside politics.
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Interesting interpretation...
One thing I have noticed over the last few threads covering this is that the people who think PPs in the wrong think that about everything he does. Which leads me to believe that their position on this is just as partisan as their takes on other topics.
At the same time, those of us who see it as just another political play from a politician, tend to be more favourable toward PP on other topics as well.
Meaning that your political position in general has more to do with how you view this than your understanding or interactions with security clearances...
Jarnhamar
Army.ca Myth
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I feel like most Canadians don't give a shit about the semantics anymore.
They government should release the names and deal with the aftermath.
RangerRay
Army.ca Veteran
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If you’re comfortable with the aftermath of our agents’ and informants’ covers blown and put in danger, our enemies knowing our methods of obtaining information, our allies losing what little trust they had in us by blowing info they gave to us in confidence wide open and the government losing a bajillion dollars in libel lawsuits, then sure let’s do it.
Or we can fix the problem we have in this country with converting intelligence into prosecutable evidence, which our peers seem to figure out.
Halifax Tar
Army.ca Fixture
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That's me to a T.
FSTO
Army.ca Fixture
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I’m so torn with this. Are these parliamentarians active agents, unwilling informants, or useful idiots? Do they need a stern talking to, a quiet word to resign or a public shaming?
What I do know is that the PMO/PCO have failed massively in treating insidious foreign meddling in a professional manner with the best interests of the Nation as a whole. I pray the opposition is taking notes on how to do better?
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…and you’re comfortable that Trudeau & Co. have Canadians’ best interests at heart and are working with all concerned to ensure that Canada’s intelligence and prosecutable evidence is being actioned?
Halifax Tar
Army.ca Fixture
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RangerRay
Army.ca Veteran
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I am absolutely not comfortable about this. Check my posting history. I have posted a lot about this and have been harsh with the Liberals’ coziness with Beijing. However until we can prosecute people with intelligence like our peers can, we’re stuck in this shitty situation.
The biggest consequence I am worried about if we “name the names” (which I really do want) is that our Five Eye allies will no longer trust us with their intelligence that they don’t want in the public sphere. We’re already in the doghouse with them.
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At this rate, that’s a 2nd-order consequence, and we have 1st-order factors as voters of not knowing who not to potentially trust, because the extant Government has done the absolute opposite of foster transparency in responsible government. Other FVEYs members have had their own quandary’s of weighing national security vs potentially compromising sources. If people think for a second that it’s better to keep things hushed and not address any known but unspoken and unaddressed parliamentarian compromise for the sake of potentially impacting sources that we don’t even know were or were not formative to the silenced case in f foreign interference, I’d say it’s time to reassess risk-reward. A Chinese vassal-state would be an even worse compromise than a nation-state that addresses the pre-vassal compromised government.
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The Aussies, Brits and Yanks have all managed to take politicians to court, or boot them from their appointments while maintaining the integrity of the 5 Eyes union.
The biggest threat to the 5 Eyes system has been sitting governments, initially New Zealand and recently Canada. The evidence is the AUKUS projects to which we and New Zealand were not invited. They don't trust us.
Our government, and its predecessors, have made a virtue out of not acting. They will find many procedural reasons to justify the failure to act. They will only act when dragged to the fire ---
The working philosophy of our Blob is exemplified in MacKenzie-King's notorious maxim:
"Conscription if necessary but not necessarily conscription".
McCarthyism at it's finest. But cannot the PM or someone else in security deem an individual as being need to know on any particular issue without going through the full security routine? To my mind JT should be able to call PP and provide him with a heads up. Should be a no-brainer.
Brad Sallows
Army.ca Legend
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At least we don't reach out to foreigners for campaign dirt, or invite foreign politicians to come here and campaign for a party. Or at least it seems to me, so far.
Brad Sallows
Army.ca Legend
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Short summary: being the party of government and knowing more and doing little is worse than being the Opposition and knowing less and doing little. People ought stop putting the emphasis on what Poilievre does or should do and put their attention back on the person in control of the PMO. And if this is a "single issue" for a voter, the voter ought choose the obviously lesser evil.
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Yup. The guy who for years ‘hasn’t been informed’ goes full Robert Downey Junior on his opponent because suddenly he’s deigned to be informed himself.
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So the Bill Clinton message in the 1995 Quebec referendum and OBama's tweet during a more recent Election were NOT foreign influence? It sure got Liberals revved up.
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SAD 9TH ANNIVERSARY FOR JUSTIN TRUDEAU The promise of enlightened leadership has turned into ideological stubbornness
It’s hard to imagine Justin Trudeau wanting to celebrate this 9th anniversary of his election. If the wear and tear of power were predictable, the precipice that awaits him could have been avoided. A lasting rejection by the electorate, a revolt by his caucus, subjected for too long to the dictates of his inner circle. For Justin Trudeau, this 9th anniversary is that of squandered potential.
SUNNY WAYS
To understand his fall, we must think back to his promise. It was that of an open government, a government that would place the country’s best interests before partisan jousting, the promise of a government where ministers would have room to maneuver to exercise their full power. It was the promise of new prosperity for the middle class that is now reeling from the repercussions of the failure of his economic policies. It was the promise of an inclusive society that is waking up today deeply divided. The promise of enlightened leadership has turned into ideological stubbornness.
THE BETRAYAL
That is the intangible problem that haunts this government. It sacrificed its ideals on the altar of political survival. It sacrificed them the day it chose to throw all budgetary prudence out the window. Then the day it dumped its Minister of Justice to save its skin in the SNC-Lavalin scandal. And the day it turned mandatory vaccination of public servants into a partisan weapon to win a third term. That’s without counting his pact with the NDP, knowing full well that public finances could not afford to pay for dental insurance and drug insurance that the provinces did not want. Add to that the perpetual guilt-tripping of us about minorities, the demonization of the average citizen's concern about the excesses of perpetual inclusion.
LOST
The Trudeau government has lost sight of the overall impact of its policies on the middle class it claimed to champion. Its main lever for helping it, the State, is now weighed down by a gigantic deficit that it no longer knows how to tame in a stagnant economy. It missed seeing the ravages of the housing crisis, the result of an unbridled immigration policy. Now, this openness to immigration that was Canada's pride has turned into a deep divide. Half the population now believes that it is downright harmful to society. And he who promised the "return of Canada" to the international stage has chosen to preach virtue rather than invest in truly doing our part. As a result, he has managed to weaken our most important bilateral relationship, the one with the United States. The promise of 2015 was so seductive. But faced with his failed execution, the window for his promise seems to have closed. The rejection of voters is visceral. This is the message being carried by rebellious MPs who are preparing to dare to say out loud what they have been thinking quietly for too long.
It’s hard to imagine Justin Trudeau wanting to celebrate this 9th anniversary of his election. If the wear and tear of power were predictable, the precipice that awaits him could have been avoided. A lasting rejection by the electorate, a revolt by his caucus, subjected for too long to the dictates of his inner circle. For Justin Trudeau, this 9th anniversary is that of squandered potential.
SUNNY WAYS
To understand his fall, we must think back to his promise. It was that of an open government, a government that would place the country’s best interests before partisan jousting, the promise of a government where ministers would have room to maneuver to exercise their full power. It was the promise of new prosperity for the middle class that is now reeling from the repercussions of the failure of his economic policies. It was the promise of an inclusive society that is waking up today deeply divided. The promise of enlightened leadership has turned into ideological stubbornness.
THE BETRAYAL
That is the intangible problem that haunts this government. It sacrificed its ideals on the altar of political survival. It sacrificed them the day it chose to throw all budgetary prudence out the window. Then the day it dumped its Minister of Justice to save its skin in the SNC-Lavalin scandal. And the day it turned mandatory vaccination of public servants into a partisan weapon to win a third term. That’s without counting his pact with the NDP, knowing full well that public finances could not afford to pay for dental insurance and drug insurance that the provinces did not want. Add to that the perpetual guilt-tripping of us about minorities, the demonization of the average citizen's concern about the excesses of perpetual inclusion.
LOST
The Trudeau government has lost sight of the overall impact of its policies on the middle class it claimed to champion. Its main lever for helping it, the State, is now weighed down by a gigantic deficit that it no longer knows how to tame in a stagnant economy. It missed seeing the ravages of the housing crisis, the result of an unbridled immigration policy. Now, this openness to immigration that was Canada's pride has turned into a deep divide. Half the population now believes that it is downright harmful to society. And he who promised the "return of Canada" to the international stage has chosen to preach virtue rather than invest in truly doing our part. As a result, he has managed to weaken our most important bilateral relationship, the one with the United States. The promise of 2015 was so seductive. But faced with his failed execution, the window for his promise seems to have closed. The rejection of voters is visceral. This is the message being carried by rebellious MPs who are preparing to dare to say out loud what they have been thinking quietly for too long.
