CAN-USA 2025 Tariff Strife (split from various pol threads)

[QV]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/trump-ford-ontario-electricity-tariffs-trade-war-1.7480234

Oh look, someone blinked. Imagine that negotiations are underway...

I know it's hard to pull yourself from the righteous I-want-to-be-an-insurgent-against-an-American-invasion space. The media hype and those on this forum who jug it by the gallon is something else.

As to your "prepare for the worst" yeah, well where have you been for the last decade? This country has squandered it's potential in a massive way, has devoted itself to destroy our heritage through some post-nation horse shit and division, and is now in full reactionary mode with hardly any cards to hold except "elbows up!". We need a reckoning in this country and a massive wake up call. Maybe, just maybe, Trump will do that for us. But I have my doubts with a Carney/NDP coalition looming.

 

[Jarnhamar]

What does that have to do with soldiers defending our country during a hypothetical American incursion? Complete reductio ad absurdum. What an obviously bad faith question. Has me wondering, would you defend your country from an American invasion?

Isn't it your "duty" to follow orders though?
Of course you'd take firearms out of Canadian hands if you were ordered to do so.

The whole do your duty line is nothing more than manipulation and coerson. It sounds straight from all the left wing "patriots" on reddit calling everyone else traitors (along with chinese Russia American bots)

would you defend your country from an American invasion? Call it hypothetical.

I'll answer this hypothetical question. But first, has the hypothetical person asking me if I'd defend Canada from invasion ever carried live rounds in a theater of war and risked their life "for Canada" in the presense of an armed enemy?

 

[PuckChaser]

Personal attack posts have been deleted and warnings issued. If folks can't debate ideas instead of personal attacks, they can have a forum wide timeout. Go be toxic on Reddit.

- Milnet.ca Staff

 

[PrairieFella]

Isn't it your "duty" to follow orders though?
Of course you'd take firearms out of Canadian hands if you were ordered to do so.

The whole do your duty line is nothing more than manipulation and coerson. It sounds straight from all the left wing "patriots" on reddit calling everyone else traitors (along with chinese Russia American bots)

It is my duty to follow orders yes. If the order is legal, I follow. So do you. How is that relevant to the discussion about Canadian national integrity?

I'll answer this hypothetical question. But first, has the hypothetical person asking me if I'd defend Canada from invasion ever carried live rounds in a theater of war and risked their life "for Canada" in the presense of an armed enemy?

No, this real and not hypothetical person did not. Of the crime of being 16 by the end of the last shooting war, I am guilty. Which you seem to be implying lessens my ability to form opinions.

Now if you would please be so kind as to answer the question, but try not to insult all of our fellow forumers that didnt get the opportunity to leave the wire in Afghanistan again, they're allowed to have opinions too. Not quite the own you think you had.

 

[Czech_pivo]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/trump-ford-ontario-electricity-tariffs-trade-war-1.7480234

Oh look, someone blinked. Imagine that negotiations are underway...

I know it's hard to pull yourself from the righteous I-want-to-be-an-insurgent-against-an-American-invasion space. The media hype and those on this forum who jug it by the gallon is something else.

As to your "prepare for the worst" yeah, well where have you been for the last decade? This country has squandered it's potential in a massive way, has devoted itself to destroy our heritage through some post-nation horse shit and division, and is now in full reactionary mode with hardly any cards to hold except "elbows up!". We need a reckoning in this country and a massive wake up call. Maybe, just maybe, Trump will do that for us. But I have my doubts with a Carney/NDP coalition looming.

Please don't suggest that Dougie blinked first.

The blinking was mutual - Trump doesn't do the extra 25% and Dougie stops his 25% on electricity. Dougie has been very clear, very articulate in his commenting that he just wants to sit down with Trump and talk about what needs to be done for a deal to happen.

When I heard Dougie today say to Wolf Blitzer live on CNN that he had suggested to Gov Witmer when talking with her that she should put on the Michigan electric bills going out in March that the reason for the 25% increase to their bill was because of a 'Trump Tax', I knew that would piss off Trump and his cabinet. Dougie also said in the interview that he was having a conversation with Lutnick today and hoped to talk sense with him about making a deal. Dougie also began today to use the phase, 'Trump Recession' live on US news interviews was another nail in Trump's coffin in terms of losing the public in the US.

I'd go out on a limb and say that well over 85% of Canadians are backing the Canadian response to Trump and he's inability to clearly articulate what he is trying to do to Canada. I'd also go out on a limb and say that somewhere between 55-60% of Americans are against Trump's tariffs to Canada. With both of those numbers in favour for Canada, the longer this drags on, the farther the stock market falls, the greater the uncertainty remains, the more often Americans hear the words 'Trump Recession' and 'Trump Tax' on US news outlets - the greater the chance that Canada comes out on top of this.

Now, am I happy with the direction that Canada has gone down over the 2015 to present path - no - not at all. Deeply sadden and upset about it - but at the same time, when there is a clear and direct threat to Canada and our way of life - our ability to dictate our own course of actions, for better or for worse, I will choose to rally around the flag and burn down the house of those that are against us. After that, I will gladly start to bitch, complain and actively try to change whatever policies our Federal Government is trying to implement that I am against.

 

[GK .Dundas]

I think that is being overly hypothetical - as I tend to believe that Gen Milley was correct

https://twitter.com/x/status/1899058978027372742

I do not believe the US Military would do anything if given an order to invade Canada, other than remove the President from office.

I'd like to think so as well but....

 

[PrairieFella]

Please don't suggest that Dougie blinked first.

The blinking was mutual - Trump doesn't do the extra 25% and Dougie stops his 25% on electricity. Dougie has been very clear, very articulate in his commenting that he just wants to sit down with Trump and talk about what needs to be done for a deal to happen.

When I heard Dougie today say to Wolf Blitzer live on CNN that he had suggested to Gov Witmer when talking with her that she should put on the Michigan electric bills going out in March that the reason for the 25% increase to their bill was because of a 'Trump Tax', I knew that would piss off Trump and his cabinet. Dougie also said in the interview that he was having a conversation with Lutnick today and hoped to talk sense with him about making a deal. Dougie also began today to use the phase, 'Trump Recession' live on US news interviews was another nail in Trump's coffin in terms of losing the public in the US.

I'd go out on a limb and say that well over 85% of Canadians are backing the Canadian response to Trump and he's inability to clearly articulate what he is trying to do to Canada. I'd also go out on a limb and say that somewhere between 55-60% of Americans are against Trump's tariffs to Canada. With both of those numbers in favour for Canada, the longer this drags on, the farther the stock market falls, the greater the uncertainty remains, the more often Americans hear the words 'Trump Recession' and 'Trump Tax' on US news outlets - the greater the chance that Canada comes out on top of this.

Now, am I happy with the direction that Canada has gone down over the 2015 to present path - no - not at all. Deeply sadden and upset about it - but at the same time, when there is a clear and direct threat to Canada and our way of life - our ability to dictate our own course of actions, for better or for worse, I will choose to rally around the flag and burn down the house of those that are against us. After that, I will gladly start to bitch, complain and actively try to change whatever policies our Federal Government is trying to implement that I am against.

Well said.

 

[PPCLI Guy]

I think that is being overly hypothetical - as I tend to believe that Gen Milley was correct

https://twitter.com/x/status/1899058978027372742

I do not believe the US Military would do anything if given an order to invade Canada, other than remove the President from office.

Are you as sure that the new CJCS will be true to the Constitution? Or fuckwit PH?

 

[brihard]

I know it's hard to pull yourself from the righteous I-want-to-be-an-insurgent-against-an-American-invasion space. The media hype and those on this forum who jug it by the gallon is something else.

Don’t be absurd. Nobody here wants that. A lot of us have been on the ground in a counterinsurgency war, and we very much understand what that would really entail. And we know that, even though Americans will pull out after four or five thousand dead soldiers, the toll for the other side is far higher. There’s not a sane person here who wants to be, dreams of, or fantasizes about being in a conflict like that. Or seeing our families and friends living their day to day life in such an environment. Nobody here wants to get run off the road by an MRAP on the way to the grocery store. Nobody here wants to get fingerprinted or iris scanned at a random checkpoint and maybe pulled out of our cars and disappeared. Nobody wants the electricity to simply be unreliable, or the store shelves empty, or have our jobs disappear. Nobody wants to be caught in the crossfire of an ambush, or simply be in the wrong place and wrong time when some E-3 behind a pintle mount gets skittish. Nobody wants to be the next state wrecked and scarred by botched U.S. military adventurism.

The odds of that happening in and to Canada are very, very close to zero. But it used to just be zero, and that difference is very uncomfortable to have to think about. It also has to be acknowledged. It’s a fundamental rupture in something that up til now we could take more for granted than anything, so yeah, it will generate some discussion.

 

[Jarnhamar]

It is my duty to follow orders yes. If the order is legal, I follow. So do you. How is that relevant to the discussion about Canadian national integrity?

Firearm ownership and the ability to defend oneself from the old "enemies, foreign and domestic" is important to me. I like to know when someone would use force in the name of duty to disarm citizens. I personally find that quit fascist.

There's a nexus national integrity and the "patriots" I mentioned who support a government trying to disarm Canadians. I'd go so far to say it's our duty as Canadians to oppose that government.

But duty is an easy word to try and force certain narrow minded views with.

No, this real and not hypothetical person did not.

Cool.

Of the crime of being 16 by the end of the last shooting war, I am guilty. Which you seem to be implying lessens my ability to form opinions.

Now if you would please be so kind as to answer the question, but try not to insult all of our fellow forumers that didnt get the opportunity to leave the wire in Afghanistan again, they're allowed to have opinions too. Not quite the own you think you had.

I don't condemn or ridicule CAF members who didn't get an opportunity to deploy. It happens and they're by no means second class.

If someone questions me on my willingness to serve (maybe sacrifice for) Canada, which is fine, I just like to know if they've actually witnessed/partaken in what they're challenging me on.

Of course I would defend Canada against the US, which I suspect isn't the own you thought you had , either

 

[Jarnhamar]

Damn for all of Fords tough talk about not raising tariffs until this is over he sure blinked fast.

 

[brihard]

Damn for all of Fords tough talk about not raising tariffs until this is over he sure blinked fast.

No he didn’t. He fired back, Trump had to bluster and threaten of course, but at the same time he was doing that, Lutnick, representing a country of 340 million, agreed to come to the table with a province 1/20th of that. Trump only made himself look further unhinged, he shook the confidence of the markets further, and he further exposed some of his political vulnerability. Hopefully this translates to more calls within the U.S. to seek an off ramp to this idiocy.

 

[Jarnhamar]

How us suspending the 25% energy tariff (or whatever it was) after saying we won't until all US tariffs are dropped not blinking? Ford just went back on his word, no?

 

[brihard]

How us suspending the 25% energy tariff (or whatever it was) after saying we won't until all US tariffs are dropped not blinking? Ford just went back on his word, no?

He could could have stuck completely to something that inappropriately constrained him, but that would be stupid. He played a move and gained some advantage out of it.

I suspect there’s some coordination with the feds happening in the background here.

Ford has exposed another weakness- multiple states import electricity, not just from Ontario. It puts the lie to Trump’s bluster about ‘not needing’ anything from Canada. Trump had to go to the point of pledging to announce a national emergency over being denied a particular Canadian export. That’s not a show of strength on his part.

 

[Remius]

How us suspending the 25% energy tariff (or whatever it was) after saying we won't until all US tariffs are dropped not blinking? Ford just went back on his word, no?

Someone reached out to him. lutnick. He’s trying to smooth things over. Ford didn’t blink at all but he’s being reasonable with the olive branch being extended. Including a meeting this Thursday that won’t be with the same B team they met with last time.

 

[Czech_pivo]

Damn for all of Fords tough talk about not raising tariffs until this is over he sure blinked fast.

He did not blink first - the plan all along was to get a direct meeting with the US in order to discuss directly tariffs and our mutual path to destruction.

He stated this as much on US news interviews. He clearly articulated that he didnt want to do this but he was being forced to do this. He said that he preferred to talk directly about the tariffs - the ONLY way that was going to happen was to MAKE the US sit up and notice us by doing what he did. They noticed and I have no doubt that when he spoke with Lutnick this afternoon Dougie CLEARLY said to them, if you want me to stop by price of admission is you brining me to the table to talk trade - you do that I'll drop my electricity tariffs. Have NO doubt that if the talks on Thursday don't go on in a positive manner for BOTH sides that Dougie will bring back the electricity tarriffs.

 

[Remius]

He did not blink fast - the plan all along was to get a direct meeting with the US in order to discuss directly tariffs and our mutual path to destruction.

He stated this as much on US news interviews. He clearly articulated that he didnt want to do this but he was being forced to do this. He said that he preferred to talk directly about the tariffs - the ONLY way that was going to happen was to MAKE the US sit up and notice us by doing what he did. They noticed and I have no doubt that when he spoke with Lutnick this afternoon Dougie CLEARLY said to them, if you want me to stop by price of admission is you brining me to the table to talk trade - you do that I'll drop my electricity tariffs. Have NO doubt that if the talks on Thursday don't go on in a positive manner for BOTH sides that Dougie will bring back the electricity tarriffs.

And I would guess that they calculated that Ford was not bluffing about turning off the power in this tit for tat .

 

[Czech_pivo]

And I would guess that they calculated that Ford was not bluffing about turning off the power in this tit for tat .

100% - that would be the next move by Dougie -

And, if we really really wanted to bring it up a level, Manitoba or 'insert next province name here', would announce a 25% tariff on electricity at the SAME time that Dougie cut off electricity.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Someone reached out to him. lutnick. He’s trying to smooth things over. Ford didn’t blink at all but he’s being reasonable with the olive branch being extended. Including a meeting this Thursday that won’t be with the same B team they met with last time.

I'm not saying Trump is Hitler but holy hell, his staff dealing with him must be like Hitlers generals trying to constantly convince him the Germans are "fighting in a different direction".

 

[Czech_pivo]

The only countries that are benefitting from ALL of this are the enemies of the US (and ours) and ALL the non-aligned countries around the world.

Those non-aligned will be saying, WTF, if the Canadians are getting screwed over by the US, why the hell should we do anything with the US going forward.