CAN-USA 2025 Tariff Strife (split from various pol threads)

[brihard]

I'm all for standing up to Trump and his 51st State annexation BS but are we really at the "let's leave them starving in the dark"

No, we were at “charge them 25% extra”. Those tariff revenues to help prop up Ontario business that’s under attack.

and "break out the IED's and punji sticks" stage?

No. It’s only on the table as a discussion point in the highly unlikely (yet more possible than before) case where Trump went to such extremes that he designs on our sovereignty turned into physical force. America is absolutely capable of it under the wrong leadership. Hopefully that’s not him, but he’s closer than any other president in living history. But absolutely nobody wants that.

Despite Trump and his MAGA disciples I'm confident that the vast majority of Americans don't wish us harm and are just as baffled by this Twilight Zone episode as we are. Doug Ford is taking the right approach. We're sorry and we don't want to take these actions but the unwarranted attack on our country by your President is making this necessary. Let's resolve this and get back to being the close friends, neighbours and trading partners that we were before all this nonsense.

In the end this WILL be resolved and the US is not going away. Deal firmly with Trump and his crew but don't paint all of America with the same broad brush. We will want to restore good relations after this and being unnecessarily vengeful in our defence will only cause bitterness on both sides that will be difficult to repair.

$0.02

And hopefully you’re right. Unfortunately, so far the other sources of political power in the U.S. aren’t yet giving us any cause to be reassured. We have to consider obscene possibilities, because for the first time, they’re possible. He has seized a degree of power unprecedented in modern American history. There isn’t a template for this. None of us truly know how far it goes or what breaks first, or where, or when.

 

[RangerRay]

I think that is being overly hypothetical - as I tend to believe that Gen Milley was correct

https://twitter.com/x/status/1899058978027372742

I do not believe the US Military would do anything if given an order to invade Canada, other than remove the President from office.

You don’t think he’ll find some looney MAGA colonel who will say “Yes Sir!” after all the generals above refuse? Or even one brigadier?

 

[PrairieFella]

No, we were at “charge them 25% extra”. Those tariff revenues to help prop up Ontario business that’s under attack.



No. It’s only on the table as a discussion point in the highly unlikely (yet more possible than before) case where Trump went to such extremes that he designs on our sovereignty turned into physical force. America is absolutely capable of it under the wrong leadership. Hopefully that’s not him, but he’s closer than any other president in living history. But absolutely nobody wants that.



And hopefully you’re right. Unfortunately, so far the other sources of political power in the U.S. aren’t yet giving us any cause to be reassured. We have to consider obscene possibilities, because for the first time, they’re possible. He has seized a degree of power unprecedented in modern American history. There isn’t a template for this. None of us truly know how far it goes or what breaks first, or where, or when.

I'm a lot less worried about the US Armed Forces and much more worried about some lunatic MAGA militia crossing the border Fenian style.

 

[GR66]

No, we were at “charge them 25% extra”. Those tariff revenues to help prop up Ontario business that’s under attack.

Fully on board with playing our strong cards.

No. It’s only on the table as a discussion point in the highly unlikely (yet more possible than before) case where Trump went to such extremes that he designs on our sovereignty turned into physical force. America is absolutely capable of it under the wrong leadership. Hopefully that’s not him, but he’s closer than any other president in living history. But absolutely nobody wants that.

Agreed that the risk level has increased from "ha ha, you're kidding, right?" to 'nah, he wouldn't do that...would he?". I'm not saying we ignore Trump's annexation rhetoric, but there are those on here that are suggesting everything from cancelling any piece of US military hardware we have on order to universal military service, handing out AT rockets and training the public to make IED's.

We absolutely have to act firmly and to make the kind of strategic changes to limit our exposure to US pressure going forward, but we need to keep in mind that the goal is to restore our good relations with the US and not to sever it. Act, but no need to overreact.

And hopefully you’re right. Unfortunately, so far the other sources of political power in the U.S. aren’t yet giving us any cause to be reassured. We have to consider obscene possibilities, because for the first time, they’re possible. He has seized a degree of power unprecedented in modern American history. There isn’t a template for this. None of us truly know how far it goes or what breaks first, or where, or when.

I hope I'm right too. When Trump and his acolytes begin framing Canadians as "the others", contemptable as a people and "lesser" beings THEN I will fully accept that we are on the path to something really disturbing.

 

[McG]

In 2021, Canada was still making decisions based on “knowing” Russia would not start a real war in Europe despite all the warning signs being there.

Today, the leader of the United States is fawning over Anschluss & Lebensraum. It behoves us not to dismiss these warning signs when we are in direct danger.

We cannot hope that this will pass and the old normal will return. That was our mistake in 2021.

 

[QV]

We've been invited to join the union. I don’t recall any threats of military annexation. The Canadian reaction has been a huge overreaction egged on by the LPC for political purposes. And they’ve essentially reversed what would have been a devastating defeat. They know how to take advantage of events.

Canada’s reaction should have been to politely decline and worked to integrate more economically and militarily with the US including (what was that subsidy number trump says?) a $100B investment in US military hardware to help strengthen North America and NATO.

 

[Czech_pivo]

'NO BUSINESS CASE': Alberta inks LNG deal with Japan thwarting Ottawa’s export skepticism

HOUSTON: Alberta has inked a major supply deal with Japan — after Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said no business case could be made.

www.westernstandard.news

 

[RangerRay]

Think so? I disagree... Look at all the countries stepping up their defence spending! Does a far better armed EU benefit Russia?

If Canada magically goes to 2% in next few months, will you thank the Donald for doing something beneficial to our country that every government in the last few decades refused to do?

Sorry, I’m not going to thank the criminals that forced the city to properly fund the police. And I’m not going to thank the city for underfunding the police all those previous years.

 

[RangerRay]

I'm a lot less worried about the US Armed Forces and much more worried about some lunatic MAGA militia crossing the border Fenian style.

Or agents provocateur coming here, pretending to be Maple MAGA, start causing trouble forcing a government crackdown allowing Trump to say “the Canadian government is treating their MAGA people so bad. Let’s liberate them!”

Or, they decide to occupy a piece of our territory that allows them to have full control of a river, or a “land bridge” connecting Point Robert’s to Washington State. Or some small strategically important island. All to say “We can take bits off you and there’s nothing you can do about it.”

Minuscule possibility of happening, but more than there was a few weeks ago.

 

[QV]

Sorry, I’m not going to thank the criminals that forced the city to properly fund the police. And I’m not going to thank the city for underfunding the police all those previous years.

Bad analogy. Nobody said you should thank Russia.

 

[brihard]

We've been invited to join the union. I don’t recall any threats of military annexation. The Canadian reaction has been a huge overreaction egged on by the LPC for political purposes. And they’ve essentially reversed what would have been a devastating defeat. They know how to take advantage of events.

Canada’s reaction should have been to politely decline and worked to integrate more economically and militarily with the US including (what was that subsidy number trump says?) a $100B investment in US military hardware to help strengthen North America and NATO.

Sure bud. We’ve been ‘invited’ the way a Mafia enforcer invites the neighbourhood businesses to contribute to the local ‘charitable foundation’. And we’re already at the point of real damage being done for having the temerity to decline. If you still see this as some sort of good faith, non-coercive invitation, you have a perceptual deficit bordering on disability. Doesn’t mean it’ll get to the point of broken legs, but that’s the degree of honest intent in play here from Trump.

I'm a lot less worried about the US Armed Forces and much more worried about some lunatic MAGA militia crossing the border Fenian style.

Not the least bit worried about that. That would be a straightforward if spicy CANSOFCOM / RCAF cleanup, and whatever was left would be handed over to the Mounties and crown prosecutors. Violent extremists above the individual level typically suck at keeping their mouths shut, and any more than a small gaggle together inevitably telegraph their intentions and get infiltrated or otherwise compromised. No militia acting unilaterally would stand a chance of achieving anything meaningful crossing over onto our soil.

 

[GK .Dundas]

We're not really in tornado alley. We've had a couple in the previous years, but we certainly arent Nebraska. Our green houses are double wall plastic film. Inflatable that allows a dead air space for insulation. Not impervious, but no where near as fragile as glass. Nobody uses glass anymore. Very easy and fast to replace or repair. We aren’t new to the game, we are the leader when it comes to greenhouses. We are the technology everyone else copies.

It is flat. As I said earlier, it was the lake bottom at one time. The highest spot in the county is the municipal dump. Your source must've been an interloper that didn’t know what he was talking abo

Sound's a bit like Winnipeg or there abouts .

 

[MrWhyt]

We've been invited to join the union. I don’t recall any threats of military annexation.

and we've declined, yet the invitations keep coming. At what point does this go from persistent suitor to rapist?

 

[GK .Dundas]

Sound's a bit like Winnipeg or there abouts .

 

[PrairieFella]

Not the least bit worried about that. That would be a straightforward if spicy CANSOFCOM / RCAF cleanup, and whatever was left would be handed over to the Mounties and crown prosecutors. Violent extremists above the individual level typically suck at keeping their mouths shut, and any more than a small gaggle together inevitably telegraph their intentions and get infiltrated or otherwise compromised. No militia acting unilaterally would stand a chance of achieving anything meaningful crossing over onto our soil.

Fair point, I just fear that little green men cross the border and become a casus belli for the Americans if they start taking casualties. An extremely small possibility, but not impossible.

 

[HavokFour]

I'm not sure why Quisling Smith is mad.

Bell: Danielle Smith furious with Doug Ford, Team Canada set to meet

Ontario Premier Doug Ford takes on U.S. President Trump in a tense stand-off as Alberta Premier Danielle Smith upset with Ford's antics

calgaryherald.com

 

[brihard]

I'm not sure why Quisling Smith is mad.

Bell: Danielle Smith furious with Doug Ford, Team Canada set to meet

Ontario Premier Doug Ford takes on U.S. President Trump in a tense stand-off as Alberta Premier Danielle Smith upset with Ford's antics

calgaryherald.com

Well, let’s see. Her government is on increasingly shaky ground with the ongoing healthcare scandal. Added to that, she knows that her province gets off disproportionately light in the tariff game, with oil and gas only eating 10% to the promised 25% on everything else. That despite the fact that her province products are overwhelming responsible for our net trade surplus with the U.S., the very thing Trump is most cranky about. She rightly fears anything that could push her province to eat a more proportionate share of the economic pain.

So yeah, I could see why she’d be mad at Ford. Her political interests are best served if Canada meekly caves. If we fight, she runs the risk of eating some of it too, and she’s less well positioned to weather that.

 

[Genetk44]

I'm not sure why Quisling Smith is mad.

Bell: Danielle Smith furious with Doug Ford, Team Canada set to meet

Ontario Premier Doug Ford takes on U.S. President Trump in a tense stand-off as Alberta Premier Danielle Smith upset with Ford's antics

calgaryherald.com

Maybe because she is really in the spotlight now if things escalate with Trump and she still refuses to use the O&G afterFord faced him down? Ford sort of has forced her to put up or look really bad to the rest of Canada.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I'm all for standing up to Trump and his 51st State annexation BS but are we really at the "let's leave them starving in the dark" and "break out the IED's and punji sticks" stage?

Despite Trump and his MAGA disciples I'm confident that the vast majority of Americans don't wish us harm and are just as baffled by this Twilight Zone episode as we are. Doug Ford is taking the right approach. We're sorry and we don't want to take these actions but the unwarranted attack on our country by your President is making this necessary. Let's resolve this and get back to being the close friends, neighbours and trading partners that we were before all this nonsense.

In the end this WILL be resolved and the US is not going away. Deal firmly with Trump and his crew but don't paint all of America with the same broad brush. We will want to restore good relations after this and being unnecessarily vengeful in our defence will only cause bitterness on both sides that will be difficult to repair.

$0.02

If you want to beat trump you have to work on his level. You need to outbully him. He respects strength. Anything less, he smells blood in the water. He'll find that wedge and hammer the shit out of it.

Ford showed strength, a no mercy approach out of the gate. He made trump stop and consider other choices. Trump asked Ford to tone down his rhetoric and Ford said no. Trump realized Doug sits in a chair and manspreads, just like him. Not crosslegged like a female. All trudeau needed was to tuck his toe behind his calf. Ford is likely the number one trade guy in Canada, according to trump's thinking. He called Ford a strong man. Trump wants to sit down with him. He invited Ford to the WH. That's not how it's supposed to work. Doug has major juju with trump right now. I don’t even know why Legault is going. Trump doesn’t want to talk to him.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Sound's a bit like Winnipeg or there abouts .

It does. Well, except for the cold, snow, mosquitoes compared to our latitude and the palm trees.