Government hints at boosting Canada’s military spending

I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[RangerRay]

Leaving aside the Spanish Inquisition, is anyone else totally underwhelmed by the recent CPC platform on defence and the equal lack by everyone else's.

Considering how it’s a big topic right now, it’s odd that no one wants to talk about it.

Extremely underwhelmed.

 

[RangerRay]

Meanwhile in Spain...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1914687549408227365

If Spain is doing this, WTF is our excuse?

 

[Castus]

Considering how it’s a big topic right now, it’s odd that no one wants to talk about it.

Extremely underwhelmed.

Who said it was a big topic? It trended in the media for a couple of weeks, with headlines like, 'National defence is often an afterthought in Canadian elections. Not this time' (CBC, 24 Mar). And then, like clockwork, it mainly faded into the background. We've sure gotten a plethora of promises, including allegedly nearly doubling our budget. Colour me a sceptic. We are an afterthought. Canada cares not for defence of the realm, I am afraid, besides mouthing platitudes and then moving on to the topics that really just feel good.

Don't worry though, elbows up!

 

[Cloud Cover]

Once the public figured out the main adversary was going to extort and not invade, National Defence fell away as an issue.
Reinforces the theory Canada is not a serious country and even threats won’t change that.

 

[daftandbarmy]

If Spain is doing this, WTF is our excuse?

Lots of talk but no action?

Meanwhile...

Defence spending is on the ballot this election. So is military 'culture', say some N.B. voters​

Recent changes to dress code part of simmering dissatisfaction with direction of military​

Poilievre repeated that message at an event in Ottawa in February, when he said, "Our military will be guided by a warrior culture not a woke culture."

CBC News asked the Conservative Party if Poilievre could elaborate on how he would change military culture, but there was no response.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/military-canadian-armed-forces-gagetown-fredericton-oromocto-1.7513467

 

[FJAG]

If Spain is doing this, WTF is our excuse?

It's somewhat interesting in that Spain has always been one of the forces that I use as a comparable for Canada.

The last time I did a comparison a few years back, they had a population slightly larger than Canada's; a GDP 80% of ours (albeit a per capita GDP at 67% of ours) and a defence budget 87% of Canada's. Conversely, they have approximately twice as many full-timers; a navy generally comparable to ours; an air force generally comparable but with twice as many fighters; and an army 4 to 6 times as big as ours.

Spain is one of my main reasons for maintaining that Canada's defence outputs are falling short of its defence inputs. Italy is another. Poland used to be albeit their GDP and Per Capita GDP are less than half of Canada's and their defence spending has now jumped from one half of ours to 116% of ours.

To answer your question; there is no excuse for Canada when you consider that Spain is under neither serious nor immediate threat from Russia. One could reasonably argue that they are under less threat than Canada.

 

[MilEME09]

If Spain is doing this, WTF is our excuse?

Well the CPC has no defense plan except the arctic and with all their cuts etc I doubt DND would see any new funding from them, infact i could see them cutting DND. The Liberal plan would get us to 2.2% in 2029 (or sooner depending on the economy), and likely approaching 2.5% in the 2030's, NDP say 2030 for 2% as well.

 

[quadrapiper]

Defence spending is on the ballot this election. So is military 'culture', say some N.B. voters

Recent changes to dress code part of simmering dissatisfaction with direction of military​

Poilievre repeated that message at an event in Ottawa in February, when he said, "Our military will be guided by a warrior culture not a woke culture."

CBC News asked the Conservative Party if Poilievre could elaborate on how he would change military culture, but there was no response.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/military-canadian-armed-forces-gagetown-fredericton-oromocto-1.7513467

Of all of the absolutely inane rabbit holes to run down...

 

[RangerRay]

It's somewhat interesting in that Spain has always been one of the forces that I use as a comparable for Canada.

The last time I did a comparison a few years back, they had a population slightly larger than Canada's; a GDP 80% of ours (albeit a per capita GDP at 67% of ours) and a defence budget 87% of Canada's. Conversely, they have approximately twice as many full-timers; a navy generally comparable to ours; an air force generally comparable but with twice as many fighters; and an army 4 to 6 times as big as ours.

Spain is one of my main reasons for maintaining that Canada's defence outputs are falling short of its defence inputs. Italy is another. Poland used to be albeit their GDP and Per Capita GDP are less than half of Canada's and their defence spending has now jumped from one half of ours to 116% of ours.

To answer your question; there is no excuse for Canada when you consider that Spain is under neither serious nor immediate threat from Russia. One could reasonably argue that they are under less threat than Canada.

We are one of the wealthiest nations in the world, yet everyone likes to cry poverty. We cheap out on everything and deliver nothing close to a world class standard. But they don’t do anything that would increase revenues to do that. Instead, we have substandard healthcare, substandard education, substandard law enforcement and justice, substandard national security and defence…with our wealth, there is absolutely excuse for us to have such a backwards government.

A pox on all their houses.

 

[Rainbow1910]

None of those aircraft have air to air refueling AFAIK. If I had my druthers, the A220-300 (old name C Series) built in Mirabel would be the baseline for some else's sensors. Lots of work to make that a possibility I think but its completely doable. Needs refueling and design of a sensor on it but its plenty big enough and long range enough, and there are plenty built out there.

I don't really think the airframe is the problem, the sensor is. I don't know the sensor specs on any of those aircraft unfortunately and that is to me the most important aspect that is different from the other offerings. We know the Wedgetail is designed for long endurance, long ranges and large airsearch. The Euro/Korean systems are designed for smaller ranges in all aspects.

I think that Canada might have a market if we used a larger aircraft and made a direct competitor to the Wedgetail. NATO is looking for new AEW aircraft. Airbus aircraft, made in Canada with a Euro (or Israeli) sensor system would probably work.

My primary concerns about going in for a larger "Canadian" aircraft is the fact that we would need to put up the funds and effort to physically design and integrate these systems into the A220. In comparison to the Saab GlobalEye or the Global 6500 CAEW that already have their designs finished or in service currently, we would be on the hook for making this work with a new platform entirely ourselves. That adds in significantly more risk to a program that otherwise has some seemingly capable off the shelf options.

How much of a market really exists for such an AEW platform? Canada has fallen into the trap previously of doing programs with the prospect of export, only to find no customers and fall into obscurity.

CAEW is actually capable of in air refueling and has a 360 degree sweep capability, unlike its Saab counterpart. It's a modern GaN AESA set with a Dual Band (L+S) capability.

The aircraft is equipped with the Elta EL/W-2085 AEW system which includes a phased array airborne early warning radar, an identification friend or foe system, electronic support measures (ESM), electronic intelligence (ELINT) and communications intelligence (COMINT) systems.

The system is highly automated and uses advanced multi-sensor data fusion techniques to cross-correlate data generated by all four sensors – the radar, IFF, ESM / ELINT and CSM / COMINT. The data is combined with an automatically initiated active search by one sensor for specific targets that have been detected by other sensors.

The phased array airborne early warning radar, an active electronic steering array (AESA), operates in L and S bands (1GHz to 2GHz and 2GHz to 4GHz) and provides 360° azimuthal coverage. The system has high-accuracy three-dimensional tracking, low false-alarm rate, flexible and high target revisit time, electronic counter-countermeasures and programmable search and track modes of operation.


The modes of operation include track initiation, extended detection range mode with long dwell time, and target verification. When a target has been identified as a priority the radar switches to a high scan rate tracking mode with optimised beam to target characteristics.

The forward-facing hemisphere radar array and the weather radar are mounted in the nose radome. The lateral arrays are housed in conformal radomes along the sides of the forward fuselage. The radome located on the tailcone houses the aft facing hemispherical array.

The information friend or foe system uses the radar’s receive / transmit modules and antennae and provides target interrogation, decoding, target detection, location and target tracking.

The electronic support measures and electronic intelligence systems use multiple narrow and wideband receivers. The ESM / ELINT also provides the radar warning receiver function and supports the aircraft’s self-protection system. The antenna pods are mounted under the wingtips. An electronic support measures antenna is mounted in a fairing above the nose cone which houses the weather radar. The direction finding function uses differential time of arrival.

The automated communications intelligence system covers the high (HF) to very-high (VHF) frequency bands from 3MHz to 3GHz.

The aircraft is fitted with an integrated self protection suite with 360° radar warning receiver (RWR), missile approach warning system (MAWS), chaff and flare decoy dispensers and directed infrared countermeasures (DIRCM).

Obviously it's difficult to get proper figures for a lot of AEW aircraft, but the CAEW looks like the best off the shelf option to me at the moment.

 

[ueo]

Lots of talk but no action?

Meanwhile...

Defence spending is on the ballot this election. So is military 'culture', say some N.B. voters​

Recent changes to dress code part of simmering dissatisfaction with direction of military​

Poilievre repeated that message at an event in Ottawa in February, when he said, "Our military will be guided by a warrior culture not a woke culture."

CBC News asked the Conservative Party if Poilievre could elaborate on how he would change military culture, but there was no response.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/military-canadian-armed-forces-gagetown-fredericton-oromocto-1.7513467

one expected ?

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Of all of the absolutely inane rabbit holes to run down...

The people who pay for the military, want it to look like one.

 

[quadrapiper]

The people who pay for the military, want it to look like one.

How's the wee pillbox hat and wool high collars for serving the guns?

Or leather stocks and powdered hair...

 

[Kirkhill]

If Spain is doing this, WTF is our excuse?

Take a closer look - I sense a Canadian solution in the offing

Sánchez complies with the 2% defence spending target with an additional 10.47 billion euros

A National Committee for Security and Technological Sovereignty will oversee the implementation of a plan that still needs to be approved by the EU and NATO

www.atalayar.com

The president has emphasised at the Moncloa that 81.25 per cent of the economic volume of his plan is earmarked for items ‘not related to armaments’.

‘five main pillars’.

The first and most important pillar accounts for 35.45% of the total investment and allocates 3,712.49 billion euros to ‘improving the working conditions of troops and sailors, increasing their numbers, their training and their equipment’.

The second set of actions is aimed at ‘manufacturing and acquiring new telecommunications and cybersecurity capabilities’. It amounts to 3,262.76 million euros, representing 31.16 per cent of the total investment,

The third pillar accounts for 18.75 per cent of the total investment. This amounts to 1,962.98 billion euros, which will be allocated to ‘the manufacture and purchase of new defence and deterrence equipment’, a euphemism for the purchase of missiles, new weapons systems and advanced land, air and naval combat platforms.

The fourth pillar on which Sánchez's proposal to Brussels is based accounts for 16.73% of the total investment. This amounts to 1,751.53 billion euros and is earmarked for ‘strengthening the dual capabilities of our Armed Forces’, but so that they ‘can also help in emergency and natural disaster management’, the president pointed out.

The fifth and final chapter focuses on ‘improving the security conditions’ of the nearly 3,000 military and civil guards who make up the 16 missions that Spain carries out abroad under the flag of the UN, the EU or NATO. Their work will receive 328.74 million, 3.14 per cent of the total.

So ...

35% on troops and salaries
31% on comms and cyber
17% on sandbags and disaster relief
3% on UN/NATO/NORAD

19% on missiles, weapons and platforms.

Looks like a Canadian solution to me.

 

[Furniture]

It's somewhat interesting in that Spain has always been one of the forces that I use as a comparable for Canada.

The last time I did a comparison a few years back, they had a population slightly larger than Canada's; a GDP 80% of ours (albeit a per capita GDP at 67% of ours) and a defence budget 87% of Canada's. Conversely, they have approximately twice as many full-timers; a navy generally comparable to ours; an air force generally comparable but with twice as many fighters; and an army 4 to 6 times as big as ours.

Spain is one of my main reasons for maintaining that Canada's defence outputs are falling short of its defence inputs. Italy is another. Poland used to be albeit their GDP and Per Capita GDP are less than half of Canada's and their defence spending has now jumped from one half of ours to 116% of ours.

To answer your question; there is no excuse for Canada when you consider that Spain is under neither serious nor immediate threat from Russia. One could reasonably argue that they are under less threat than Canada.

Spain pays the bulk of their troops poverty pay, and Spain is a cheap place to live..

Think either of those things would apply in Canada?

 

[Kirkhill]

Spain pays the bulk of their troops poverty pay, and Spain is a cheap place to live..

Think either of those things would apply in Canada?

I think that the government will be happier paying more of you more than it will be buying you more bullets.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Well the CPC has no defense plan except the arctic and with all their cuts etc I doubt DND would see any new funding from them, infact i could see them cutting DND. The Liberal plan would get us to 2.2% in 2029 (or sooner depending on the economy), and likely approaching 2.5% in the 2030's, NDP say 2030 for 2% as well.

I commend your steadfast commitment to the Liberal campaign. Maybe its the umpire in me but I appreciate consistency.

 

[MilEME09]

I commend your steadfast commitment to the Liberal campaign. Maybe its the umpire in me but I appreciate consistency.

Its not a great plan, but its the best of the 3, so long as they follow through

 

[Halifax Tar]

Its not a great plan, but its the best of the 3, so long as they follow through

I appreciate your POV.

 

[childs56]

Leaving aside the Spanish Inquisition, is anyone else totally underwhelmed by the recent CPC platform on defence and the equal lack by everyone else's.

I think it is hard to follow up with the liberals signing/ RFP all the recent deals for aircraft, ships, subs and possibly armour.
Again what we are seeing is the liberals once again setting up the PC party for failure on defense spending. Over commit on spending. If the PC's get elected they have to cut projects to pay for the newly promised ones. IF the liberals are re-elected they will state these projects are not feasible at this time and move on. Because the majority of their supporters don't care.
I am surprised we have not deployed what's left of our Military to some new war zone yet. There is still a few days left.

I find it appalling that an election year (months) any government can promise to commit major money for projects. Nothing like buying votes.