Pipelines

[Czech_pivo]

why Sarnia? If your destination is Montreal it would seem better to run from Sudbury down the Ottawa river valley rather than backtracking around Georgian Bay. Then use the UL/ZR line to feed southern Ontario. Either that or its the fleet of ice capable tankers from a Lakehead terminus to the Sarnia terminus whilst everyone argues over the environmental impact of the northern pipeline route.

So what do you propose happens to Sarnia and all its refinery capability? The goal should be to shut down Line 5 and remove any sort of US interference with our refinery capability in Ontario. Just as long as Sarnia has a dedicated feed to it, all within Canada, I don't care how it get's done.

 

[YZT580]

So what do you propose happens to Sarnia and all its refinery capability? The goal should be to shut down Line 5 and remove any sort of US interference with our refinery capability in Ontario. Just as long as Sarnia has a dedicated feed to it, all within Canada, I don't care how it get's done.

As stated, use Sarnia for all of southern Ontario and exporting refined products to Michigan if you can; I believe that is what it is used for now. It doesn't make sense to drive a pipeline through the Muskokas if you don't have to. It is all rock and small lakes. One reason they avoided railway construction until well into the 20th century

 

[Czech_pivo]

As stated, use Sarnia for all of southern Ontario and exporting refined products to Michigan if you can; I believe that is what it is used for now. It doesn't make sense to drive a pipeline through the Muskokas if you don't have to. It is all rock and small lakes. One reason they avoided railway construction until well into the 20th century

Understood.
They should shut down the pipeline across the UP and across the Strait of Mackinac and only maintain it from Sarnia going IN to Port Huron and throughout the rest of the lower peninsula, metro Detroit.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Give a Hudson Bay outlet as well.

why Sarnia? If your destination is Montreal it would seem better to run from Sudbury down the Ottawa river valley rather than backtracking around Georgian Bay. Then use the UL/ZR line to feed southern Ontario. Either that or its the fleet of ice capable tankers from a Lakehead terminus to the Sarnia terminus whilst everyone argues over the environmental impact of the northern pipeline route.

Line 5 supplies Sarnia because that's where we refine and distribute to supply Ontario. Montreal serves as the end of Line 5 and a shipping port. Line 5 does not exist, strictly to supply the Montreal shipping facility. It is simply the end of the line. There are lots of customers before it get to Quebec.

We don't refine for Michigan. Once it gets to Sarnia it stays on the Canadian side.

Enbridge Line 5 - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[YZT580]

Line 5 supplies Sarnia because that's where we refine and distribute to supply Ontario. Montreal serves as the end of Line 5 and a shipping port. Line 5 does not exist, strictly to supply the Montreal shipping facility. It is simply the end of the line. There are lots of customers before it get to Quebec.

We don't refine for Michigan. Once it gets to Sarnia it stays on the Canadian side.

View attachment 95032

Enbridge Line 5 - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

and you are saying that Sarnia can't become the end of the line and simply reverse the flow out of Montreal? that implies that Sarnia is shipping finished product eastbound. OK.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Understood.
They should shut down the pipeline across the UP and across the Strait of Mackinac and only maintain it from Sarnia going IN to Port Huron and throughout the rest of the lower peninsula, metro Detroit.

Just leave the existing line for Michigan. They can decide whatever to do with it. If we have a replacement going over the Superior Lakehead, the US can't threaten it.

 

[Czech_pivo]

Just leave the existing line for Michigan. They can decide whatever to do with it. If we have a replacement going over the Superior Lakehead, the US can't threaten it.

Understand.
But why keep the risk of the pipeline under the Strait of Mackinac rupturing? The pipeline across the UP is more than likely a non-positive revenue generator - there no major or even minor cities or industry there. Shut it down, remove the risk of rupture. Reverse the flow from Port Huron to Sarnia to be Sarnia to Port Huron and continue to service all of the lower peninsula of Michigan.

 

[Czech_pivo]

Line 5 and the History of Canada-US Pipelines

Line 5 and the History of Canada-US Hydrocarbon Pipelines

As recent history makes clear, Canada is one of the world’s premier climate villains.

niche-canada.org

Shut down the portion from Duluth to the Straits of Mackinac, Michigan.

 

[Kirkhill]

From a 2013 article on Energy East about converting existing under utilized gas lines and converting them to oil.

The TransCanada Energy East project proposes converting 1865 miles of the natural gas Mainline system and constructing 870 miles of new pipeline to deliver at least 500 Mb/d of crude oil to eastern Canada from Alberta. The pipeline conversion could solve two problems. It would bump up tariff revenues on the huge 7 Bcf/d Mainline that has been sucking air for years (it only moved 2.4 Bcf/d in 2012). And it would provide a route to Eastern markets for rising production volumes of landlocked Canadian crude. Today in the first of a two part series we examine prospects for this project.

PS - presumably the 500 Mb/d should actually be 0.5 Mbpd or 500,000 bpd. Alberta production is 4 Mbpd.

https://rbnenergy.com/what-becomes-of-the-empty-pipelines

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/sudbury/energy-east-pipeline-northeastern-ontario-election-1.7498241

There are three pipes in the Trans Canada Pipeline corridor at Cochrane. From Cochrane they run south to North Bay.

If one of those lines were converted to oil you could feed Sarnia.
If one of them were diverted to feed an LNG facility at Moosonee you could fill another line.
If you needed another pipe in the corridor the right of way has already been approved, validated and verified through 75 years of service.

If Quebec wants in they would be welcome. But both oil and gas should get to salt water as soon as possible, either in Manitoba or Ontario or both.

After all BC hasn't limited itself to one LNG port for its natural gas nor to one port for its coal. And it has a small oil port.

Coal Ports

• Roberts Bank at Vancouver
• Ridley Island at Prince Rupert

Natural Gas Ports

• Natural Gas Liquids from Prince Rupert
• Liquefied Natural Gas from Kitimat (2 phases and 1 independent)
• Liquefied Natural Gas from Squamish
• Liquefied Natural Gas from Gingolx upriver from Lax Kw'alaams and Prince Rupert
• Liquefied Natural Gas from Delta at Vancouver

Oil Ports

- Western Canadian Shale from Burnaby at Vancouver.

BC serves its own needs well.

Why not have terminals at Churchill, Nelson and Moosonee?

 

[lenaitch]

Line 5 and the History of Canada-US Pipelines

Line 5 and the History of Canada-US Hydrocarbon Pipelines

As recent history makes clear, Canada is one of the world’s premier climate villains.

niche-canada.org

Shut down the portion from Duluth to the Straits of Mackinac, Michigan.

If we found an alternative, as the kids say these days, 'that sounds like a them problem'.

From a 2013 article on Energy East about converting existing under utilized gas lines and converting them to oil.

View attachment 95033View attachment 95035



PS - presumably the 500 Mb/d should actually be 0.5 Mbpd or 500,000 bpd. Alberta production is 4 Mbpd.

https://rbnenergy.com/what-becomes-of-the-empty-pipelines

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/sudbury/energy-east-pipeline-northeastern-ontario-election-1.7498241

There are three pipes in the Trans Canada Pipeline corridor at Cochrane. From Cochrane they run south to North Bay.

If one of those lines were converted to oil you could feed Sarnia.
If one of them were diverted to feed an LNG facility at Moosonee you could fill another line.
If you needed another pipe in the corridor the right of way has already been approved, validated and verified through 75 years of service.

If Quebec wants in they would be welcome. But both oil and gas should get to salt water as soon as possible, either in Manitoba or Ontario or both.

Major enroute community opposition when that was first floated. Here in North Bay, the line cuts through the city and skirts the lake that is the sole source of municipal water.

 

[Kirkhill]

If we found an alternative, as the kids say these days, 'that sounds like a them problem'.



Major enroute community opposition when that was first floated. Here in North Bay, the line cuts through the city and skirts the lake that is the sole source of municipal water.

Bill 5! Bill C5! Problem solved. Twice over.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Ontario looking for someone to look into "how best to establish a new economic and energy corridor" ...

Ontario Newsroom

news.ontario.ca

Ontario seeks study for new pipelines, rail lines between that province and Alberta

TORONTO - Ontario is taking a step toward planning new pipelines to bring Alberta oil and gas to the province for refining, issuing a request for proposals today for a

www.thecanadianpressnews.ca

Ont. Government Issues RFP To Explore Ways To Establish New Economic And Energy Corridor Across Provinces - Canadian Manufacturing

In a statement, the Ont. government says that new East-West pipelines would, if approved, help protect Canada’s economy, workers and energy security by making it easier to transport oil and gas from Western Canada to Ontario and reduce Canada’s reliance on the United States.

www.canadianmanufacturing.com

 

[Fishbone Jones]

and you are saying that Sarnia can't become the end of the line and simply reverse the flow out of Montreal? that implies that Sarnia is shipping finished product eastbound. OK.

Yes, Sarnia ships finished product, it refines things like jet fuel for Peason Airport and other petroleum products. The supply flow is west to east. Montreal is the end of the line. They have no flow to reverse. New York also takes crude through Line 10. The pipeline originates in North Westover, Ontario, and terminates in West Seneca, New York.

None of that has to change. Bringing a pipeline down from the Trans Canada Energy East to Sarnia simply changes the route from the US Line 5 to a completely Canadian pipeline. Customers, flow, etc won be affected.

 

[Kirkhill]

Wab might have difficulty meeting his commitment to supply hydro-electric power to the Rankin Inlet - Baker Lake area of Nunavut.

He needs water in those rivers. The levels are low enough that a ferry has been stranded. And First Nation status isn't getting the locals any favours.

First Nation’s low water levels can’t be helped: Manitoba Hydro

Manitoba Hydro says it cannot raise water levels on a northern lake, where a ferry has been grounded, because doing so right now would jeopardize “electrical reliability” if a drought continues. York...

www.winnipegfreepress.com

....

Meanwhile Denmark's flagship wind turbine company, Oerstad, is going bust.

There was a time when Danish wind farm behemoth Ørsted was the toast of its homeland. Its transition from one of the most coal-intensive utilities on the planet to a trailblazer in offshore wind energy over the space of just a few years was hailed as one of the most remarkable corporate transformations ever witnessed.

What’s more, it was widely regarded as firm evidence that those who had built the current energy system were the right people to spearhead the creation of an entirely new one.

Yet it was a spectacularly short-lived renaissance even by the profligate standards of the renewables industry. Indeed, the company has quickly gone from being a source of great pride to national embarrassment as the wheels come off the miraculous Ørsted reinvention at alarming speed.

Advertisement

A proposed cash call of up to 60bn Danish kroner (£7bn) to shore up its debt-laden balance sheet has been greeted like a big-booted Texan oil baron at the Extinction Rebellion Christmas party. Double what investors were expecting, the giant rights issue has torn a hole in its share price the size of Copenhagen.

Meanwhile, a fundraising that was roughly half the company’s valuation before trading commenced on Monday morning was soon equivalent to three quarters of the market cap after shareholders gave the plans a resounding thumbs-down.

With good reason, too. Given that Copenhagen is the proud majority shareholder at Ørsted with 50.1pc of the equity, and the Danish government has agreed to underwrite its portion of the rights issue, there is no getting away from what is happening here.

Make no mistake about it, a company that was once the poster child for the green energy revolution is about to become the subject of a massive state-led bailout funded by Danish taxpayers.

It is a watershed moment for the net zero movement. The wheels have been in danger of coming off the renewables industry ever since an era of ultra-low interest rates came to a shuddering halt. Faced with a sudden spike in the cost of financing, clean energy projects are being abandoned all over the globe.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/08/12/era-of-reckless-bets-on-net-zero-officially-over/