The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)

[MilEME09]

I think De Hailand should make an aggressive bid to work with Saab.

Either them or airbus, DHC seems to be gearing towards the tactical airlift market. Bringing back the Sherpa and a new twin otter. I wouldn't be surprised if they try to create a medium lift transport in the near future.

 

[ytz]

This story is not going away…

Can anyone provide info behind the paywall?

Google News

Comprehensive up-to-date news coverage, aggregated from sources all over the world by Google News.

news.google.com

Found another source. Bombardier confirms that it’s in talks with Saab…..

Bombardier in talks to manufacture Saab Gripen fighter in Canada - Air Data News

Bombardier has confirmed it is in discussions with Saab to manufacture the Gripen fighter aircraft in Canada. Talks between the two companies have been

www.airdatanews.com

Nothingburger story, Bombardier staff basically say this is only on the table if the Canadian Govt goes the route of picking the Gripen. This local assembly claim has been on the table from Saab for years, this is just trading IMP for Bombardier.

If Bombardier and Saab agree privately, without the Canadian Govt, that they want to become partners for Gripen production/assembly, now that would put political pressure on Canada to adopt the Gripen. If that isn't happening, this is nothing but further desperation from Saab to salvage their bid with Canada.

I wasn't worried before. I am now. Joly is actively advocating for this. And her riding is in the commuter shed for Mirabel, where the plant would be.

And Saab is really savvy here. IMP doesn't have much pull on aerospace contracts. But getting Bombardier in on this helps. Especially given that a whole lot of sub work for the F-35 is done in Quebec.

The RCAF is going to get stuck with two pigs. A fighter we don't want and that is expensive to support. And an AEWC bird that is not AAR capable and doesn't have 360 coverage. I do not understand why we want the worst defence products from Sweden. Why can't we get CV90s for the army instead? Or more Carl Gs?

I'm curious what happens if the Americans threaten to end NORAD or our Five Eyes relationship? While also cutting the millions in Canadian content per F-35.

 

[Rainbow1910]

I wasn't worried before. I am now. Joly is actively advocating for this. And her riding is in the commuter shed for Mirabel, where the plant would be.

And Saab is really savvy here. IMP doesn't have much pull on aerospace contracts. But getting Bombardier in on this helps. Especially given that a whole lot of sub work for the F-35 is done in Quebec.

The RCAF is going to get stuck with two pigs. A fighter we don't want and that is expensive to support. And an AEWC bird that is not AAR capable and doesn't have 360 coverage. I do not understand why we want the worst defence products from Sweden. Why can't we get CV90s for the army instead? Or more Carl Gs?

I'm curious what happens if the Americans threaten to end NORAD or our Five Eyes relationship? While also cutting the millions in Canadian content per F-35.

Joly only has so much sway, and I have serious doubts it is enough to override the current gigantic RCAF bias towards the F-35, the existing contracts and the fact it won the last competition. A lot of this is Joly trying to squeeze LM for additional concessions towards Canada on their contract, I don't think anybody is under the delusion that we will actually purchase the Gripen.

An AEWC platform without AAR fitted would be nonsensical for Canada, I hope they quash that idea pretty fast.

 

[childs56]

Either them or airbus, DHC seems to be gearing towards the tactical airlift market. Bringing back the Sherpa and a new twin otter. I wouldn't be surprised if they try to create a medium lift transport in the near future.

They stated a few years ago they would be interested in working with the Canadian Government in developing a medium to heavy lift aircraft domestically a few years ago. The Government wad not interested but might be in the near future.

 

[ytz]

Joly only has so much sway, and I have serious doubts it is enough to override the current gigantic RCAF bias towards the F-35, the existing contracts and the fact it won the last competition. A lot of this is Joly trying to squeeze LM for additional concessions towards Canada on their contract, I don't think anybody is under the delusion that we will actually purchase the Gripen.

An AEWC platform without AAR fitted would be nonsensical for Canada, I hope they quash that idea pretty fast.

I really, really, really hope you're right. And I'm wrong. This is genuinely the first time I've felt a tinge of concern. I really feel sorry for the AEWC guys too. Since their draft RFP is just months from the street, they are vulnerable.

 

[Retired AF Guy]

I wasn't worried before. I am now. Joly is actively advocating for this. And her riding is in the commuter shed for Mirabel, where the plant would be.

And Saab is really savvy here. IMP doesn't have much pull on aerospace contracts. But getting Bombardier in on this helps. Especially given that a whole lot of sub work for the F-35 is done in Quebec.

The RCAF is going to get stuck with two pigs. A fighter we don't want and that is expensive to support. And an AEWC bird that is not AAR capable and doesn't have 360 coverage. I do not understand why we want the worst defence products from Sweden. Why can't we get CV90s for the army instead? Or more Carl Gs?

I'm curious what happens if the Americans threaten to end NORAD or our Five Eyes relationship? While also cutting the millions in Canadian content per F-35.

A fighter we don't want and that is expensive to support.

I take it you are speaking about the F-35?

 

[dapaterson]

I really, really, really hope you're right. And I'm wrong. This is genuinely the first time I've felt a tinge of concern. I really feel sorry for the AEWC guys too. Since their draft RFP is just months from the street, they are vulnerable.

RCAF (and others) apparently weren't listening to the PM on 09 June:

"We should no longer send three quarters of our defence capital spending to America."

Prime Minister Carney announces the government’s plan to rebuild, rearm, and reinvest in the Canadian Armed Forces

It is a pleasure to be at the Munk School where faculty, students, and graduates have helped shape Canada’s domestic policies and geopolitical strategies for over two decades.

www.pm.gc.ca

 

[SeaKingTacco]

RCAF (and others) apparently weren't listening to the PM on 09 June:

"We should no longer send three quarters of our defence capital spending to America."

Prime Minister Carney announces the government’s plan to rebuild, rearm, and reinvest in the Canadian Armed Forces

It is a pleasure to be at the Munk School where faculty, students, and graduates have helped shape Canada’s domestic policies and geopolitical strategies for over two decades.

www.pm.gc.ca

Great, but this project (F35) has been in the works since (checks watch) 2005.

Unless you got another Gen 5 fighter program that we can hop onboard in literally months, this ship has (figuratively) sailed.

Let’s also not ignore the possibility that the White House may not allow us to back out of F35 without severe consequences.

But sure- going forward with new requirements, lets buy domestic, Euro or Korean…

 

[dapaterson]

Great, but this project (F35) has been in the works since (checks watch) 2005.

Unless you got another Gen 5 fighter program that we can hop onboard in literally months, this ship has (figuratively) sailed.

Was thinking AEW, not fighters.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Was thinking AEW, not fighters.

Great- again, Bombardier has a largely vapourware aircraft that does not do AAR. Not a big deal in Sweden or South Korea. Bit of big deal in an orbit somewhere north of Arctic Bay…

I suppose we can just buy more to make up for the lack range and onsta time. Got to get to 3.5% somehow, I guess.

 

[ytz]

I suppose we can just buy more to make up for the lack range and onsta time.

Had a friend say that this was literally the response from Saab when asked about the missing features.

 

[Nvlgzr]

Great- again, Bombardier has a largely vapourware aircraft that does not do AAR. Not a big deal in Sweden or South Korea. Bit of big deal in an orbit somewhere north of Arctic Bay…

I suppose we can just buy more to make up for the lack range and onsta time. Got to get to 3.5% somehow, I guess.

Maybe somebody at Bombardier needs wake up. If India can install AAR on their Embraer 145 then I don’t see why the same can’t be done for the Global 6500. It would greatly open up military markets for Bombardier.

 

[dapaterson]

Maybe somebody at Bombardier needs wake up. If India can install AAR on their Embraer 145 then I don’t see why the same can’t be done for the Global 6500. It would greatly open up military markets for Bombardier.

GlobalEye - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Had a friend say that this was literally the response from Saab when asked about the missing features.

I have been doing the aircrew game long enough to have learned how to calculate how many aircraft you need to own to have one persistent aircraft onstation- the farther away from home plate, the numbers go up fast.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

GlobalEye - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Point being, what?

Hey- since the the US DoD now thinks Wedgetail is stupid, maybe we could convince Boeing to move the mission kit installation line to Canada?

 

[dapaterson]

Point being, what?

Hey- since the the US DoD now thinks Wedgetail is stupid, maybe we could convince Boeing to move the mission kit installation line to Canada?

Sorry - brain fart where I confused AAR with a radar system and not air to air refueling.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Sorry - brain fart where I confused AAR with a radar system and not air to air refueling.

No problem.

 

[dapaterson]

No problem.

Obviously the solution is electric aircraft and solar panels on the wings

 

[Rainbow1910]

Great- again, Bombardier has a largely vapourware aircraft that does not do AAR. Not a big deal in Sweden or South Korea. Bit of big deal in an orbit somewhere north of Arctic Bay…

I suppose we can just buy more to make up for the lack range and onsta time. Got to get to 3.5% somehow, I guess.

GlobalEye is not vapourware, given how its actively in use by the UAE, being bought by Sweden and considered by many others. The Phoenix Global based platform by IMI/L3/Korea is not proven yet though, so fair on them.

Maybe somebody at Bombardier needs wake up. If India can install AAR on their Embraer 145 then I don’t see why the same can’t be done for the Global 6500. It would greatly open up military markets for Bombardier.

Keep in mind I am not privy to the internal of the GlobalEye however, I think the main issue at hand is available space. You have an already modified civilian business jet into an AWACS platform, now you need to try and fit the piping and rig to take the refueling on top of all this. Might need some serious redesigns to the platform to make it work. The Phoenix AWACS doesn't have that issue as AAR is built in from the start.

 

[Nvlgzr]

Obviously the solution is electric aircraft and solar panels on the wings

I gather you’re being sarcastic but…..https://www.skydweller.aero/