Pipelines, energy and natural resources

[The Bread Guy]

Meanwhile, looking in the other direction ....

Alberta treated ‘like garbage’ by former federal government, Premier Ford says

Ontario Premier Doug Ford says that Alberta was treated “like garbage” by the former Liberal government in Ottawa.

www.cp24.com

Oil pipeline through northwestern Ontario proposed - Your ThunderBay

A proposed route for a new oil pipeline between Alberta and Ontario has been identified.

yourthunderbay.ca

Ontario Newsroom

news.ontario.ca

Fuelling Canadian refineries with Alberta energy: Statement from Premier Smith

Premier Danielle Smith issued the following statement following the announcement of a potential west-east oil pipeline.

www.alberta.ca

Here's the map ....
\
... with an Ontario info-machine backgrounder attached.

Let's see how it all goes -- FN reaction on need to consult/final say in 3, 2 .....

 

[HavokFour]

Meanwhile, looking in the other direction ....

Alberta treated ‘like garbage’ by former federal government, Premier Ford says

Ontario Premier Doug Ford says that Alberta was treated “like garbage” by the former Liberal government in Ottawa.

www.cp24.com

Oil pipeline through northwestern Ontario proposed - Your ThunderBay

A proposed route for a new oil pipeline between Alberta and Ontario has been identified.

yourthunderbay.ca

Ontario Newsroom

news.ontario.ca

Fuelling Canadian refineries with Alberta energy: Statement from Premier Smith

Premier Danielle Smith issued the following statement following the announcement of a potential west-east oil pipeline.

www.alberta.ca

Here's the map ....
View attachment 101112\
... with an Ontario info-machine backgrounder attached.

Let's see how it all goes -- FN reaction on need to consult/final say in 3, 2 .....

I can appreciate the effort to stay well clear of the great lakes as much as possible. Can only hope that Quebec one day becomes open to a branch through the province to the east coast.

 

[brihard]

I agree. The Northern route is much more straight forward.

FTFY

Meanwhile, looking in the other direction ....

Alberta treated ‘like garbage’ by former federal government, Premier Ford says

Ontario Premier Doug Ford says that Alberta was treated “like garbage” by the former Liberal government in Ottawa.

www.cp24.com

Oil pipeline through northwestern Ontario proposed - Your ThunderBay

A proposed route for a new oil pipeline between Alberta and Ontario has been identified.

yourthunderbay.ca

Ontario Newsroom

news.ontario.ca

Fuelling Canadian refineries with Alberta energy: Statement from Premier Smith

Premier Danielle Smith issued the following statement following the announcement of a potential west-east oil pipeline.

www.alberta.ca

Here's the map ....
View attachment 101112\
... with an Ontario info-machine backgrounder attached.

Let's see how it all goes -- FN reaction on need to consult/final say in 3, 2 .....

Wow, if they could pull that off that would be wild.

 

[Good2Golf]

Wow, if they could pull that off that would be wild.

Much of the Ontario route looks like it would twin up w TC’s existing NG pipeline.

 

[daftandbarmy]

I can appreciate the effort to stay well clear of the great lakes as much as possible. Can only hope that Quebec one day becomes open to a branch through the province to the east coast.

I hope not... if they separated we'd be hooped

 

[Czech_pivo]

FTFY

Wow, if they could pull that off that would be wild.

Especially if Sarnia could see an increase in its refinery amounts and we sell any excess supply of refined products to the US.

 

[Kirkhill]

Two branch lines possible from that mainline

Cochrane-Moosonee

📈 The port report

Welcome back to Economic Insights!

www.ipolitics.ca

North Gower down the 416 to Johnstown.

Port of Johnstown

Port of Johnstown

www.portofjohnstown.com

North Gower, like much of the rest of the proposal, is on the Trans Canada Natural Gas Mainline.

Tankers down the St Lawrence, past the Montreal refineries to Saint John for bulking, refining and distribution.

Tankers from Moosonee to Ascension for bulking and distribution.

 

[YZT580]

Two branch lines possible from that mainline

Cochrane-Moosonee

📈 The port report

Welcome back to Economic Insights!

www.ipolitics.ca

North Gower down the 416 to Johnstown.

Port of Johnstown

Port of Johnstown

www.portofjohnstown.com

North Gower, like much of the rest of the proposal, is on the Trans Canada Natural Gas Mainline.

Tankers down the St Lawrence, past the Montreal refineries to Saint John for bulking, refining and distribution.

Tankers from Moosonee to Ascension for bulking and distribution.

the link for Johnstown makes a good add for Paul Martin. Is that your liberal bias showing again

 

[Kirkhill]

the link for Johnstown makes a good add for Paul Martin. Is that your liberal bias showing again

I don't care who gets paid. Somebody has always got their hand out. So long as the job gets done.

 

[lenaitch]

It is obvious to me that the proposed routing following the TC Energy ('Trans-Canada') pipeline. It is well known terrain and much flatter and more forgiving. Trying to hug Lake Superior and/of Huron would be exponentially more costly.

I think this is an excellent project, both from a sovereignty and energy security perspective, by avoiding the Line 5 route through the US which has been tied up in litigation for quite a while now.

It could also potentially qualify as a federal 'nation-building' project.

Two branch lines possible from that mainline

Cochrane-Moosonee

📈 The port report

Welcome back to Economic Insights!

www.ipolitics.ca

North Gower down the 416 to Johnstown.

Port of Johnstown

Port of Johnstown

www.portofjohnstown.com

North Gower, like much of the rest of the proposal, is on the Trans Canada Natural Gas Mainline.

Tankers down the St Lawrence, past the Montreal refineries to Saint John for bulking, refining and distribution.

Tankers from Moosonee to Ascension for bulking and distribution.

I won't get into the argument of trying to ship through the mudflats and sandbars of James Bay/lower Moose River. Shipping from Jonestown would require somebody to build a fleet of SeawayMax tankers, would still expose us to US 'interference', and would be met with no less opposition from Quebec.

 

[PrairieFella]

Meanwhile, looking in the other direction ....

Alberta treated ‘like garbage’ by former federal government, Premier Ford says

Ontario Premier Doug Ford says that Alberta was treated “like garbage” by the former Liberal government in Ottawa.

www.cp24.com

Oil pipeline through northwestern Ontario proposed - Your ThunderBay

A proposed route for a new oil pipeline between Alberta and Ontario has been identified.

yourthunderbay.ca

Ontario Newsroom

news.ontario.ca

Fuelling Canadian refineries with Alberta energy: Statement from Premier Smith

Premier Danielle Smith issued the following statement following the announcement of a potential west-east oil pipeline.

www.alberta.ca

Here's the map ....
View attachment 101112\
... with an Ontario info-machine backgrounder attached.

Let's see how it all goes -- FN reaction on need to consult/final say in 3, 2 .....

Dont get excited yet. Apparently they didnt do any consultation work in this yet and did not come to any sort of agreement with MB for that reason. Manitoba will hold the keys on this one pending consultation. Might be a way to get some NG pipe built to Churchill.

 

[foresterab]

Dont get excited yet. Apparently they didnt do any consultation work in this yet and did not come to any sort of agreement with MB for that reason. Manitoba will hold the keys on this one pending consultation. Might be a way to get some NG pipe built to Churchill.

My initial thought of the proposal was "what a great time to build an inland tank farm in Manitoba and create a separate pipeline north to Churchill"

Oil moving east/west. Spur to allow seasonal loading at Churchill can be a separate project and partial indigenous owned per Manitoba desires.

Option for a second spur to Thunder Bay and 2nd tank farm if needed...but optional.

Regardless this I think this is truly important from a sovereignty perspective and is in many ways critical to future of the country....a fully Canadian E/W oil pipeline.

 

[Kirkhill]

Canada tells UAE it is not ready for its C$70bn investment
Lack of shovel-ready projects is holding back Mark Carney’s plan to double trade with partners outside of the US


Ilya Gridneff in Toronto

Published YESTERDAY
Updated02:40

Prime Minister Mark Carney’s flagship investment agency has delivered a blunt message to United Arab Emirates officials looking to pour billions of dollars into Canada: we have nowhere to put your money.

Three officials, speaking on the condition of anonymity, said the Calgary-based Major Projects Office in mid-June told an official UAE delegation it was too soon to inject capital into Canada.

“The PM keeps talking about the C$70bn [US$49bn] UAE commitment he secured on his first visit in November. None of that has been deployed,” said one Canadian official.

Carney landed a US$50bn commitment from UAE president Sheikh Mohamed bin Zayed al-Nahyan and Crown Prince of Abu Dhabi, Sheikh Khaled bin Mohamed bin Zayed al-Nahyan, who made the official announcement in November. Oil-rich Abu Dhabi manages almost $2tn in sovereign funds.

But after Carney hosted a UAE-Canada Business Council meeting in Ottawa in mid-June, the MPO turned away members from the Emirati delegation who were seeking investment opportunities, the officials said. The reason was a lack of projects at a stage where they could deploy the money.

Former Quebec premier Jean Charest, who is the co-chair of the council, said the MPO was “only one bucket of potential projects”.

“They [the MPO] gave them the only answer they could give them, at this point, we’re not ready. But that is the same answer for everyone,” he said.

https://www.ft.com/content/04a278b3-9358-4082-a204-bacd11c96860?syn-25a6b1a6=1

...

Apologies for the paywall

....

You get the gist of the issue, I am sure.

....

It relates directly to this article

'Treating pipelines like airports': Carney relishes being the one to decide

Energy analyst David Knight Legg discuss what the Alberta-Ottawa deal could mean for Canada's economy

nationalpost.com

....


The difference between Liberal Canada and the US. The Major Projects Office is a feature and not a bug. It appeals to the Colbertiste tendencies of our Laurentians.

The US aspires to a free economy.
Our Laurentians aspire to a command economy.
Their middle ground is a controlled economy.

In their view you can do anything you like after you have received government permission.

The MPO's ability to pass through the wall of rules and regulations erected by the government ensures the government's role as the gatekeeper.

Nothing happens without government approval. Everything moves at the government's pace.

Feature.
Not bug.

 

[lenaitch]

My initial thought of the proposal was "what a great time to build an inland tank farm in Manitoba and create a separate pipeline north to Churchill"

Oil moving east/west. Spur to allow seasonal loading at Churchill can be a separate project and partial indigenous owned per Manitoba desires.

Option for a second spur to Thunder Bay and 2nd tank farm if needed...but optional.

Regardless this I think this is truly important from a sovereignty perspective and is in many ways critical to future of the country....a fully Canadian E/W oil pipeline.

U really don't see the advantage of either a refinery or tank farm in Thunder Bay. It's too far from domestic markets and nobody is going to build a fleet of SeawayMax tankers for international sales. The fleet of Great Lakes tankers, especially domestically flagged, is quite small for a reason.

 

[Kirkhill]

My initial thought of the proposal was "what a great time to build an inland tank farm in Manitoba and create a separate pipeline north to Churchill"

Oil moving east/west. Spur to allow seasonal loading at Churchill can be a separate project and partial indigenous owned per Manitoba desires.

Option for a second spur to Thunder Bay and 2nd tank farm if needed...but optional.

Regardless this I think this is truly important from a sovereignty perspective and is in many ways critical to future of the country....a fully Canadian E/W oil pipeline.

Portage la Prairie -
oil and gas east and west,
rail east, west and north,
road east, west and north

 

[MilEME09]

I wonder if Northern shield has anything to do with various groups in the US trying to get the American portion of Line 5 shut down? Redundancy in case it happens so it's not a threat?

 

[SeaKingTacco]

I wonder if Northern shield has anything to do with various groups in the US trying to get the American portion of Line 5 shut down? Redundancy in case it happens so it's not a threat?

Yes.

 

[Kirkhill]

U really don't see the advantage of either a refinery or tank farm in Thunder Bay. It's too far from domestic markets and nobody is going to build a fleet of SeawayMax tankers for international sales. The fleet of Great Lakes tankers, especially domestically flagged, is quite small for a reason.

I believe we are better served by many small, dispersed transfer points than by one or two large transfer points.

The rest of Canada seems to think in terms of a single pipe wtih a hole at each end. Look at the map of pipelines in Alberta. It is a grid with multiple redundancies.

Rupert, Kitimat, Vancouver, Bruderheim, Hardisty, Portage, Churchill, TBay, Cochrane, Moosonee, Sarnia, Johnstown, Montreal, Saint John, Ascension... all of the above. Tank Farms for all. With the pipelines themselves that would represent a massive stored reserve which would offset the seasonal disadvantages of any individual port.

And offshore terminals for buried pipes are possible in the case of Churchill and James Bay.

 

[foresterab]

I believe we are better served by many small, dispersed transfer points than by one or two large transfer points.

The rest of Canada seems to think in terms of a single pipe wtih a hole at each end. Look at the map of pipelines in Alberta. It is a grid with multiple redundancies.

Rupert, Kitimat, Vancouver, Bruderheim, Hardisty, Portage, Churchill, TBay, Cochrane, Moosonee, Sarnia, Johnstown, Montreal, Saint John, Ascension... all of the above. Tank Farms for all. With the pipelines themselves that would represent a massive stored reserve which would offset the seasonal disadvantages of any individual port.

And offshore terminals for buried pipes are possible in the case of Churchill and James Bay.

I tend to agree with you on the multiple tank farms is better than super complexes.

Largest tank farm in Canada right now is Hardisty, AB at 14 million barrels. That's about 2.5 days worth of Canada's production. There are a couple of others in the 2-3 million range in Alberta as well but more distributed - Anzac, Fort MacMurray etc.

For comparison the largest US above ground storage farm is in Nederland, TX at 33 million barrels. Plus Cushing OK and (27 million) and Corpus Christie, TX (20 million). The majority of the US strategic reserve is held underground which also has me thinking about places like Sudbury ON as alterantives?

The bigger thing in my mind is to have enough oil on hand, in storage, that should the unexpected happen in places like Europe/Asia the volume exists to allow for fast delivery. For context Germany uses just over 2 million barrels a day and South Korea about 2.5 million.

Is Canada a much more valuable partner if they are sitting on a month plus supply for a country, available upon demand? It also allow for more market trading as storage can fill up in the lows vs. shipping it out for pennies...and cash in on highs.

The only question is how large and how much total capacity is needed.

 

[PuckChaser]

Dont get excited yet. Apparently they didnt do any consultation work in this yet and did not come to any sort of agreement with MB for that reason. Manitoba will hold the keys on this one pending consultation. Might be a way to get some NG pipe built to Churchill.

But we've been told that MOUs and agreements should be counted as completed projects. Or does that logic only count for Liberal announcements?