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Do we need Cadets? Should they be military/uniformed? (split from Trump administration 2024-2028)

Halifax Tar said:
Or, just hold them up to the standards of every other <insert> Primary </insert> reservist out there.
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FTFY.

The other reserve components should all be held to the same standard as the Pres / RegF, despite holding vastly different roles and purposes.
-The rangers
  • CIC
  • RCMP
  • SHL
  • The new 300,000 domestic response force
 
PrairieFella said:
Just dress them differently. Theyre babysitters and the only reason theyre in uniform is so the CSD applies. Put them in the same ODs as the kids.
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Cut the commission out well we are at it. You can be under the CSD without being a officer.

Thinking about it is there really much benefit to having them under the CSD now considering the reforms done to the MPs and who prosecutes/charges people for certain offences?
 
Eaglelord17 said:
Cut the commission out well we are at it. You can be under the CSD without being a officer.

Thinking about it is there really much benefit to having them under the CSD now considering the reforms done to the MPs and who prosecutes/charges people for certain offences?
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If they arent under CSD certain things that legal civvie side but illegal mil side wouldnt be punishable. Insubordination, etc.
 
PrairieFella said:
If they arent under CSD certain things that legal civvie side but illegal mil side wouldnt be punishable. Insubordination, etc.
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Civvy side that’s punishable, you just terminate the persons employment.

For example if I refuse to do what my boss tells me to do (as long as it is safe for me to do) even with my strong union my employer could fire me with cause instantly.
 
Jarnhamar said:
I'm not surprised in the least to see that post from him - beating people up on social media let seems like the only fight he can handle.


On a side note, maybe it's time to give our CIC officers their own distinct uniforms.
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Or just don't issue them the new uniform. The number of times I have seen them walking around not wearing the uniforms properly because there was no one of a high enough rank to tell them to fix themselves.

Probably the one that annoys me the most is them wearing the CD unmounted. One of my guys showed up to parade once like that and got ripped a new one. I understand that it's not all CIC officers, but it's pretty hard to take some of them seriously when they can't be bother to follow the dress regs or enforce them for their cadets.
 
PrairieFella said:
If they arent under CSD certain things that legal civvie side but illegal mil side wouldnt be punishable. Insubordination, etc.
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I mean, they don't have to be officers to be subject to the CSD, they could be transformed into something similar to the Canadian Rangers.
 
Eaglelord17 said:
Thinking about it is there really much benefit to having them under the CSD now considering the reforms done to the MPs and who prosecutes/charges people for certain offences?
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That's a great point. Sexual harassment and assault, and suicidal ideation, seems like (some of) the biggest issues when dealing with cadets.

MPs have to pass off any sexual related offences to civiian police and they aren't written into the mental health act so they can't form anyone, let alone children, when it comes to self harm.
 
Jarnhamar said:
That's a great point. Sexual harassment and assault, and suicidal ideation, seems like (some of) the biggest issues when dealing with cadets.

MPs have to pass off any sexual related offences to civiian police and they aren't written into the mental health act so they can't form anyone, let alone children, when it comes to self harm.
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Not saying it is or isn't a good thing, just questioning why we do stuff and if it is still a valid reason today.

Teachers deal with children daily yet have no requirement for the CSD. Scout leaders, priests, youth group leaders, etc. all deal with children and again no requirement for the CSD. You can argue that all those groups listed have had issues with predators which is true, however so has Cadets even with the CSD.

Any actual issue that may arise is likely best dealt with by the civilian police and civilian powers, I personally don't see any particular reason why CIC officers needs to be uniformed when all our civilian laws are sufficient to deal with any sort of criminality they may engage in. If I am completely wrong on this I would like to know why.
 
Eaglelord17 said:
Not saying it is or isn't a good thing, just questioning why we do stuff and if it is still a valid reason today.

Teachers deal with children daily yet have no requirement for the CSD. Scout leaders, priests, youth group leaders, etc. all deal with children and again no requirement for the CSD. You can argue that all those groups listed have had issues with predators which is true, however so has Cadets even with the CSD.

Any actual issue that may arise is likely best dealt with by the civilian police and civilian powers, I personally don't see any particular reason why CIC officers needs to be uniformed when all our civilian laws are sufficient to deal with any sort of criminality they may engage in. If I am completely wrong on this I would like to know why.
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I don't think that they need to be completely removed from the CAF. I don't think we would want a unionized CIC. I have suggested before that we create a new rank category for them similar (but different form) warrant officers in the United States. Have them have their own isolated rank structure. Give them enough authority to allow them to do their job, but don't give them authority over other CAF members.
 
Eaglelord17 said:
Not saying it is or isn't a good thing, just questioning why we do stuff and if it is still a valid reason today.

Teachers deal with children daily yet have no requirement for the CSD. Scout leaders, priests, youth group leaders, etc. all deal with children and again no requirement for the CSD. You can argue that all those groups listed have had issues with predators which is true, however so has Cadets even with the CSD.

Any actual issue that may arise is likely best dealt with by the civilian police and civilian powers, I personally don't see any particular reason why CIC officers needs to be uniformed when all our civilian laws are sufficient to deal with any sort of criminality they may engage in. If I am completely wrong on this I would like to know why.
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The Navy League uses volunteers and issues "Warrants" to allow an officer to wear a uniform, the Navy league ranks do not have the "curl". I know some great CIC Officers that put in 2-3 times as much work as they get paid for and much of their work is trying to get forms through the system so Cadets can take part in some of the awesome activities out there. Sadly the Cadet program seems to have adopted the worse of the bureaucratic nature of the Military. The Navy League want to emulate that bureaucracy, but does not have the resources.
 
Cloud Cover said:
I hope you would agree this is an area that needs improvement not just in the military but society in general.

To that extent it has always been the reasonable expectation the Canadian military must - when wearing the uniform in public - always serve as a representation of the very best a society can be in terms of deportment, a polished and sharply professional and disciplined appearance, healthy bodies and sharp, healthy minds when held up tothe scrutiny of the public eye. Those are not supposed to be a personal choices, it’s supposed to be a mandatory requirement that is rigorously applied and enforced without exception or excuse. An inviolable condition of continued employment a breach of which, without sufficient and approved justification pending remediation, is grounds for discipline including release.

Whether accurate or not, the CIC is closely associated with the CAF in the eyes, hearts and minds if the public because it dresses like the military, uses military facilities and is organized along military unit and formation lines. One cannot set up an organization along those lines and then disclaim and carve it out.
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Often the Cadet program is the only part of the military that much of the public sees. Thankfully there are some pretty awesome Cadets out there/

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Colin Parkinson said:
Often the Cadet program is the only part of the military that much of the public sees. Thankfully there are some pretty awesome Cadets out there/

355299728_10167477758990007_8880304347167032301_n-768x512.jpg


WO1-Park.jpg


rca02-20190123-0001-01.jpg
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There definately are, and the people in these pictures should definitely have the CAF suggests as career for them. But at the same time there are also a lot of Cadets that really don't look very professional.
 
Kilted said:
There definately are, and the people in these pictures should definitely have the CAF suggests as career for them. But at the same time there are also a lot of Cadets that really don't look very professional.
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The CAF pointing that out, would be the pot calling the kettle black. I have 3 Cadets in particular that fit your latter description, 2 because of an attitude problem (likely the reason the parent enrolled them) and one because of the challenges the kid has through no fault of his own.
 
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