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2026 US-Denmark Tensions/End of NATO

Europe deliberately runs shorter range TLAMs like Storm Shadow and Scalp, for exactly the reason the U.S. is using as justification for not deploying. The Brits and French are working longer range variants of their respective TLAMs. Korea is developing a Tomahawk on steroids, LIG Nex1’s K-ALCM, supposedly larger warhead and greater range than Tomahawk…we’ll have to wait and see what others officially come up with to replace the no longer to be deployed BSM-109s.
 
Again, not dismissing drones as I agree that they will play a significant role in any future conflict. However, as countermeasures are developed (both passive and kinetic) to protect vehicles from drones we may go from 15-20 FPV drones required to take out an armoured vehicle to maybe 50+ drones per vehicle?

So, with 2-3 troops average per FPV drone team that means you're dedicating 125 troops (a company) per target enemy vehicle. So perhaps a small battalion to take out a tank troop? And the further back from the front that you place your static FPV teams the longer it takes them to get to their (moving) targets. How much of the drone use in Ukraine is a result of a static front and limited amounts of other weapon systems? FPV drones are certainly cheap, expendable and quick to procure. But if they had other options available would they be preferred?

Now maybe when drone swarms come to maturity and a single fiber optic FPV operator can direct multiple semi-autonomous drones to a target things might be different, but even there I think the comms links between the operator's drone and the rest of the swarm would be the weak link. Full autonomy might be the solution to that but I'm not sure anyone is ready to fully take the human out of the targeting loop.
Probably 30-50 people per tank. Take out on tank, move to the next tank.

And at the end of the day, those people plus all their drones will still cost less than one tank, never mind multiple.
 
I don't know about shaming so much as taking advantage.

The UK seems to have been using Ukraine to do an end run around its own lethargic establishment


"The United Kingdom spent six years developing and deploying Storm Shadow. Manufacturing relied on specialized European supply chains. French and Italian partners were involved, which made a tech transfer bureaucratically difficult. And the missiles were expensive gifts, averaging $2 million apiece.

"These and other factors compelled the U.K. and Ukraine to enter into a joint agreement to develop a new long-range strike drone with streamlined and simplified requirements—a 2024 effort called Breakstop that British officials say will deliver missiles for frontline use later this year. That timeline—less than 24 months from concept to full deployment—is far faster than Storm Shadow and much less expensive. Meanwhile, Ukraine also announced its own long-range strike missile, the Flamingo, or FP-5, which is also capable of striking Russia but costs much less than the Storm Shadow.

"Fischer said that the contrast in innovation speeds helps explain how such intellectual-sharing partnerships help the United Kingdom as much as they do Ukraine. “One critical but often overlooked lesson from the Ukraine war is the extremely rapid adaptation cycle Ukraine is able to implement. In some cases, battlefield lessons are implemented in less than 10 days to new systems. In my seven combat deployments, NOTHING has ever come close to that.”"


Britain started early donating target drones to Ukraine which Ukraine converted into weapons.

....

And it is not just in the air domain

 
I don't know about shaming so much as taking advantage.

The UK seems to have been using Ukraine to do an end run around its own lethargic establishment


"The United Kingdom spent six years developing and deploying Storm Shadow. Manufacturing relied on specialized European supply chains. French and Italian partners were involved, which made a tech transfer bureaucratically difficult. And the missiles were expensive gifts, averaging $2 million apiece.

"These and other factors compelled the U.K. and Ukraine to enter into a joint agreement to develop a new long-range strike drone with streamlined and simplified requirements—a 2024 effort called Breakstop that British officials say will deliver missiles for frontline use later this year. That timeline—less than 24 months from concept to full deployment—is far faster than Storm Shadow and much less expensive. Meanwhile, Ukraine also announced its own long-range strike missile, the Flamingo, or FP-5, which is also capable of striking Russia but costs much less than the Storm Shadow.

"Fischer said that the contrast in innovation speeds helps explain how such intellectual-sharing partnerships help the United Kingdom as much as they do Ukraine. “One critical but often overlooked lesson from the Ukraine war is the extremely rapid adaptation cycle Ukraine is able to implement. In some cases, battlefield lessons are implemented in less than 10 days to new systems. In my seven combat deployments, NOTHING has ever come close to that.”"


Britain started early donating target drones to Ukraine which Ukraine converted into weapons.

....

And it is not just in the air domain

I mean, North Korea is testing out their tech fighting Ukraine.

The west should dump every experimental weapon into ukraine to see how they do at killing Russians.
 
Again, not dismissing drones as I agree that they will play a significant role in any future conflict. However, as countermeasures are developed (both passive and kinetic) to protect vehicles from drones we may go from 15-20 FPV drones required to take out an armoured vehicle to maybe 50+ drones per vehicle?

So, with 2-3 troops average per FPV drone team that means you're dedicating 125 troops (a company) per target enemy vehicle. So perhaps a small battalion to take out a tank troop? And the further back from the front that you place your static FPV teams the longer it takes them to get to their (moving) targets. How much of the drone use in Ukraine is a result of a static front and limited amounts of other weapon systems? FPV drones are certainly cheap, expendable and quick to procure. But if they had other options available would they be preferred?

Now maybe when drone swarms come to maturity and a single fiber optic FPV operator can direct multiple semi-autonomous drones to a target things might be different, but even there I think the comms links between the operator's drone and the rest of the swarm would be the weak link. Full autonomy might be the solution to that but I'm not sure anyone is ready to fully take the human out of the targeting loop.



Keep in mind how fast everything else has moved in the last four years.
 
I don't know about shaming so much as taking advantage.

The UK seems to have been using Ukraine to do an end run around its own lethargic establishment


"The United Kingdom spent six years developing and deploying Storm Shadow. Manufacturing relied on specialized European supply chains. French and Italian partners were involved, which made a tech transfer bureaucratically difficult. And the missiles were expensive gifts, averaging $2 million apiece.

"These and other factors compelled the U.K. and Ukraine to enter into a joint agreement to develop a new long-range strike drone with streamlined and simplified requirements—a 2024 effort called Breakstop that British officials say will deliver missiles for frontline use later this year. That timeline—less than 24 months from concept to full deployment—is far faster than Storm Shadow and much less expensive. Meanwhile, Ukraine also announced its own long-range strike missile, the Flamingo, or FP-5, which is also capable of striking Russia but costs much less than the Storm Shadow.

"Fischer said that the contrast in innovation speeds helps explain how such intellectual-sharing partnerships help the United Kingdom as much as they do Ukraine. “One critical but often overlooked lesson from the Ukraine war is the extremely rapid adaptation cycle Ukraine is able to implement. In some cases, battlefield lessons are implemented in less than 10 days to new systems. In my seven combat deployments, NOTHING has ever come close to that.”"


Britain started early donating target drones to Ukraine which Ukraine converted into weapons.

....

And it is not just in the air domain



Further to the above...

It was SYOS that built USVs for Ukraine with British money which were subsequently adopted by the RN

 

As war fears grow in Europe, Sweden plans mass burials for part of its people​


Real body bags, a priest reciting last rites to fictional soldiers, and cold-storage stress tests reveal just how far Sweden is willing to go to prepare its defence.​

A peer-reviewed account published in the journal Frontiers in Psychiatry describes a mortuary affairs component using more than 500 mannequins and body bags representing fallen service members - a scale of drill not attempted in Sweden since the early 1950s.

More than 300 military personnel took part, alongside the Church of Sweden, the Swedish Tax Agency and the country's conscription agency.
 

As war fears grow in Europe, Sweden plans mass burials for part of its people​


Real body bags, a priest reciting last rites to fictional soldiers, and cold-storage stress tests reveal just how far Sweden is willing to go to prepare its defence.​

A peer-reviewed account published in the journal Frontiers in Psychiatry describes a mortuary affairs component using more than 500 mannequins and body bags representing fallen service members - a scale of drill not attempted in Sweden since the early 1950s.

More than 300 military personnel took part, alongside the Church of Sweden, the Swedish Tax Agency and the country's conscription agency.

All kinds of nasty dirty business will need to be relearned.

I wonder what we have set up for mortuary affairs. 158 was definably a busy time. Imagine that, or more, by the day.
 
No.


Are Canadian tankers much more prepared than British tankers?



or American tankers?



So the Brits and Yanks are being eviscerated by Ukrainian drone teams, and you're here trying to tell me that Canadians will somehow do much better?

Get out of here with that.



No, I'm applying British and American tactics onto our maneouvre forces. And unless you mean to come here and tell me that Canadian tankers are leagues ahead of the Brits and the Yanks, hell, even the Ukrainians who have stopped using western supplied armour, then I think you may be the one out to lunch here.
I was in that Ex in Estonia.... that article is not what happened by any stretch.
 
All kinds of nasty dirty business will need to be relearned.

I wonder what we have set up for mortuary affairs. 158 was definably a busy time. Imagine that, or more, by the day.
Somewhere a senior Canadian civil servant is going glassy eyed with shock reading this. But is able to reassure himself that, that sort of thing could never happen here.
Or it could just as easily be a senior Canadian military officer or a politician.
 
All kinds of nasty dirty business will need to be relearned.

I wonder what we have set up for mortuary affairs. 158 was definably a busy time. Imagine that, or more, by the day.
Curious that the Swedes are the outlier in being the ones (or only ones that allowed a story like this to become public), preparing for these kinds of events.
 
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