Informing the Army’s Future Structure - CAMO Discussion

[FJAG]

The Arty Regiments are moving to 1st CAB.

There should be a 2nd CAB in 2 Div but baby steps.

There's no intent of a 2 CAB as it stands.

Under "AimPoint" the ARes arty regiments remain in 2 Div u/c their CBGs but are all very heavily tasked to augment the 1 CAB and 6 CCSB artillery units. Effectively they have operational tasks in support of 1 CAB/6 CCSB.

I think it will take a while to sort out what arty support 2 Div will need - my guess is A2/AD coastal rockets/missiles; air defence (incl CUAS) as part of IAMD; maybe a little light air mobile gun and LM stuff. That will be too distributed for a single CAB to handle . . . as an aside, IMHO, Canada is too large a problem for one div to handle . . . but that's another story.

The real problem, when you get right down to it, is that there isn't enough arty to go around and too little equipment procurement on the books. There are about 2 k RegF and 2 k ARes and that's simply too few.

 

[boredtoon]

Have they actually said that their will be no formations patches on the new service dress?

The army command badge will not be a thing. We will continue to wear formation patches. Imagery from DLR shows formation badges. Funding for the Command Badge was already re-allocated, which is why nobody is able to get one right now. They aren't being produced anymore. (no more uniform talk, theres another thread for that)

 

[ueo]

The locations of elms (at least as of last week) are:
Battle School HQ - D201 4th Floor. Along with 2 Div pers, Sustainment Div pers, HS, PA, Int, lay back org (for the next year), and apparently a small slice of Navy pers.
A Coy (36 CBG) - 2x Class B Pl: Sydney and Halifax, 2x Class A Pl: Aldershot and Charlottown
B Coy (37 CBG) - 2x Class B Pl: Fredericton and St John's, 2x Class A Pl: St John and St John's

If you dump a shit load of folks into Aldershot has consideration been given to little things like housing etc also the infra structure an Alder shot will require BIG $$$ Any comments/thoughts?

 

[Halifax Tar]

The locations of elms (at least as of last week) are:
Battle School HQ - D201 4th Floor. Along with 2 Div pers, Sustainment Div pers, HS, PA, Int, lay back org (for the next year), and apparently a small slice of Navy pers.

My understanding is a lot (some) of these positions are moving to Gagetown APS '27...

I know Some of MARLANT HQ is poised to take over the space. Don't ask how I know

 

[McG]

Sustainment Div

It is Support Division. All Sustainers are Supporters, but not all Supporters are Sustainers.

 

[Brad Sallows]

The only division for which the word "division" matters is 1 Div, the same way that calling Res F "brigades" as such (rather than "districts" or "areas") doesn't matter much. The domestic "division" and "brigades" are frameworks for expansion as well as various domestic contingencies. Not much energy needs to be wasted over nomenclature and disputing whether the starting point is ambitious enough. Examples of what it takes to support field formations are easy enough to find - WW II ETO/MTO offer one kind; WW II southern/southeast Pacific offer another. Detailed planning how to get from the starting point to "formations in the field" is sine qua non, though. I suppose it'll become increasingly obvious soon enough that "division" and "brigade" could stand renaming.

 

[PrairieFella]

My take on 2 Div is that it's a work in progress a few bound behind the work in progress that 1 Div is.

My gut feeling is a lot of 2 Div planning hinges on the All-Domain Defence Plan coming soon. Tough to prepare a Defence of Canada Division without a defence plan on the books this century.

 

[MilEME09]

It is Support Division. All Sustainers are Supporters, but not all Supporters are Sustainers.

A division which wont be fully set up for abother 10 years at the earliest since it will be a few more years before the maintenance battalion is stood up. Im not sure they even though where its going to go either.

 

[McG]

A division which wont be fully set up for abother 10 years at the earliest since it will be a few more years before the maintenance battalion is stood up. Im not sure they even though where its going to go either.

The Sustainment Brigade will not be in the Support Division. The Sustainment Brigade will be in 1st Cdn Div.

 

[MilEME09]

The Sustainment Brigade will not be in the Support Division. The Sustainment Brigade will be in 1st Cdn Div.

Ah right sorry I am getting my units mixed up

 

[FJAG]

My gut feeling is a lot of 2 Div planning hinges on the All-Domain Defence Plan coming soon. Tough to prepare a Defence of Canada Division without a defence plan on the books this century.

One would think that there is concurrent activity on those two files with frequent collaboration. It strikes me that both plans need input from each other. There are a few foundational building blocks that 2 Div needs that should be worked on in near time.

 

[daftandbarmy]

One would think that there is concurrent activity on those two files with frequent collaboration. It strikes me that both plans need input from each other. There are a few foundational building blocks that 2 Div needs that should be worked on in near time.

Like making all their new Bde HQs operationally bilingual?

 

[ytz]

Great Battle Order video covering the ornate change:

 

[Infanteer]

They actually did a pretty good job.

 

[ytz]

Stupid autocorrect. Meant to say orbat change.

 

[Gordon Dundas/]

Stupid autocorrect. Meant to say orbat change.

Are you sure ?

 

[childs56]

My understanding is a lot (some) of these positions are moving to Gagetown APS '27...

I know Some of MARLANT HQ is poised to take over the space. Don't ask how I know

More than likely the news report that says so is how I guess.

 

[FJAG]

They actually did a pretty good job.

Agreed. There is one point that I'm tracking as a step forward from Aimpoint 1 from last April which is the UAS Regt in 1 CAB.

Aimpoint is very vague on this and calls it a "Deep Target Acquisition unit" which is simply "conjectural" and joint with the air force. It notionally has two SUAS target acquisition squadrons, one loitering munitions squadron, a counter battery radar battery and a CSS company/battery. It was not yet allocated to 1 CAB and Aimpoint indicated there was no decision on formation allocation at that time (Apr)

IMHO, the Aimpoint conjecture was entirely too blue for a division-level resource, even if "deep TA." I'm one of those folks who feels anything within the div needs to be army green - especially SUAS which already is green in 4 Regt (GS) (CU172 Blackjack). Above div, by all means if the RCAF really wants to hold onto TUAS albeit IMHO, TUAS should be green as well and also in the div. Frankly I think we need a theatre-level, all-weather ISR/deep strike unit which fills the gap between the div and the fast mover and attack helicopter resources of the the RCAF.

And don't get me started about the aviation brigade as part of the div. That's a US-ism which keeps the division as big hulking brontosaurus rather than the light agile raptors they ought to be.

$0.02

 

[WestIsle]

And don't get me started about the aviation brigade as part of the div. That's a US-ism which keeps the division as big hulking brontosaurus rather than the light agile raptors they ought to be.

Speaks volumes of some of the thinking going on. Its just another way to draw a circle around the Regular Force units and refusing integration with the Reserve Force. The idea that some have that the CA is gonna be 2 Reg Force mech divisions and the Reserves will just be hanging out in the arctic and responding fires is hilarious and depressing. Its the same thinking that has led the CA since 1946 and gotten us to where we are today with a military that struggles to work outside of the battlegroup level.

 

[PuckChaser]

The "victim of big bad RegF" culture is ruining the PRes. Your post completely misses the point of Defense of Canada.