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2 USN Warships Found Unfit

tomahawk6

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Pretty shocking.The link below is to an interactive screen that shows the defects of the USS Stout and USS Chosin.

http://www.militarytimes.com/projects/ship_report_chosin_stout/

Navy destroyers found unfit for combat



NORFOLK, Va., April 21 (UPI) -- Two highly sophisticated U.S. Navy warships with guns and missiles that can't be fired have been rated unfit for combat, a U.S. newspaper reported Monday.

The Navy Times, owned by the Gannett newspaper chain, said it obtained Board of Inspection and Survey reports showing the warships' Aegis radar systems didn't work property, flight decks were inoperable, and most of their missiles or big guns couldn't be fired. The destroyer USS Stout, based in Norfolk, Va., and the cruiser USS Chosin, based at Pearl Harbor, Hawaii, also are rusty and leaking oil, the newspaper said.

The reports ruled both vessels "unfit for sustained combat operations," the Navy Times said. While several Navy ships receive such ratings each year, it is unusual for two Aegis-equipped ships to fall into such disrepair, the Navy Times said.

"This is worse than I remember seeing," a recently retired surface flag officer told the Navy Times after reading the reports. "I don't remember seeing two that stood out like these."

Other retired officers voiced similar opinions, including a retired admiral who said, "There's enough commonality between the two to make me think there's an endemic problem in the force."

The newspaper said the ships' commanding officers couldn't be reached for comment.

 
I would not of been surprised had these been OHP's, but a "Tike" and an Arleigh!?
 
Ummm... correct me if I am wrong but, isn't the USN trying to phase out all the Arleigh Burkes?
Something about being too costrly to run - too large a crew needed to operate... if that is the case, then part of the story is explained but, the Ticonderoga really shouldn't be on that list....

Had the US MOD cut back on the navy that much ? / has personnel shortages reached the point of no return?
 
geo said:
Ummm... correct me if I am wrong but, isn't the USN trying to phase out all the Arleigh Burkes?
Something about being too costrly to run - too large a crew needed to operate... if that is the case, then part of the story is explained but, the Ticonderoga really shouldn't be on that list....

Had the US MOD cut back on the navy that much ? / has personnel shortages reached the point of no return?

DoD.  ;D

Umm...what happened to the 313-ship plan for the USN? Wasn't that the plan they were already set upon?
 
From Navy Times.

Ailing SurFor

The Navy’s plan to get back to the basics of ship maintenance

By Philip Ewing - [email protected]
Posted : May 12, 2008

The surface Navy’s ability to self-assess its ships’ capabilities has “declined,” undermining combat readiness and calling into question many of the changes instituted by a shrinking Navy in the past few years, according to the Navy’s Surface Forces commander.

In a message to the surface fleet, Vice Adm. D.C. Curtis called April 18 for a “strategic pause to get back to basics on how we maintain and operate our ships.”

Since 2001, the Navy has tried to reduce manning, eliminate duplicative training, and break the fleet’s traditional operational and deployment cycles in favor of a nearly continuous ability to surge forces as needed. At the same time, training commands have shifted increasingly to virtual training as a less-costly means of preparing new sailors for the fleet.

Curtis’ message suggests some of those changes may have gone too far.

“We must conduct a rigorous assessment of the impact on readiness of these changes so we can make appropriate course corrections,” he wrote.

That message was released as news was breaking that two ships, the destroyer Stout and the cruiser Chosin, had been deemed “unfit for combat” by the Navy’s Board of Inspection and Survey. And it followed by a week another fleetwide message from Curtis that railed against sloppy “ship appearance, honors and ceremonies, and watchstanding,” alluded to visible rust on pierside ships in San Diego, and said the outward appearance of a ship “sets the standard and tone for what you do inside the lifelines. ... Show me a sharp ship and I will show you a ship ready to fight!”

Surface Force Master Chief (SW/AW) Michael Schanche sent a message of his own, singling out chiefs across the surface Navy and charging them with whipping their crews back into shape:

“Shipmates, I have always been incredibly proud to be the surface force master chief. Today however was the first time during my tenure that I have to say that I was professionally embarrassed!”

Exactly what Curtis meant by a “strategic pause” is not clear. He declined to be interviewed for this report. But Schanche said in a May 1 phone interview that the pause is not a stand-down.

Fleet Master Chief (SW/AW) Tom Howard, the top enlisted sailor in the Pacific Fleet, called it a time to take inventory.

“Taking a strategic pause is time for commanders and all leaders to take a moment and review what they are doing as they operate their ships,” Howard said. “Let’s just slow down a bit, look around and see truthfully where exactly we are at.”

Schanche called it “an individual thing each command is working on, a chance to take a deep breath and see if processes are meeting their mark.”

They certainly weren’t hitting their mark aboard the Norfolk, Va.-based Stout or the Pearl Harbor, Hawaii-based Chosin. Inspectors found that neither ship could shoot its guns, fire many of its Tomahawk cruise missiles, or use its flight deck or its Aegis radar systems. No leadership changes have occurred aboard either ship since the reports were released, Navy spokesman Lt. Clay Doss said.

Room for improvement
To prevent those kinds of problems elsewhere in the fleet, Curtis outlined “five specific areas where I expect improvement”:

• Standards. Commanding officers are responsible for setting and adhering to standards, and must seek out help if they need it, Curtis wrote.

• Training. The reduction of schoolhouse training in favor of computer-based training to save money may have gone too far, Curtis suggested.

• Procedures. Commanding officers must insist on “strict compliance ... and nothing less,” Curtis wrote.

• Processes. Traditional maintenance processes, inspections, spot-checks and the like are essential to keeping “warships mission capable.”

• Responsibility. The wardroom, chiefs’ mess and crew can overcome “constrained resources and high op-tempo ... with the right attitude and commitment to excellence.”

The Stout and Chosin failed their InSurvs because the crews didn’t follow standards, Rear Adm. Kevin Quinn, commander of the Atlantic Surface Forces, told Rep. Randy Forbes, a Virginia Republican and ranking member on the House Armed Services military readiness subcommittee. The two met April 23 to discuss surface force readiness, and Quinn said the bad performance was “a command issue,” not a money issue, Forbes told Navy Times.

Nonetheless, Forbes said he would ask Congress for $120 million to fund the Navy’s depot-level maintenance at 100 percent of its needs, up from the current 97 percent.

On the training issue, Curtis isn’t the first Navy official to express concern over the computer-based training for today’s sailors. In an April 23 talk with petty officers first class, Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy (SW/FMF) Joe Campa said he worried that the Navy had gotten too far away from hands-on, wrench-turning instruction.

Posts on Navy Times’ online message boards agree: “The Navy for the last five or six years has been mainly training sailors to be operators and depending more on contractors for repairs,” wrote one reader, using the name “CMENKEN.” “If you never train your sailors to repair items, then it is hard for them to tell when things are starting to break.”

As for Curtis’ emphasis on captains’ insisting on procedure, Campa said the responsibility also belongs to chiefs and first class petty officers. “When I look at programs like 3M [preventive maintenance], damage control maintenance — you should be driving those programs on the deck plates.”

Howard agreed: “Every sailor with chevrons on their sleeve needs to realize that as leaders they are also responsible in all this for the cleanliness, preservation and material condition of their ships, and that is across the board in every community.”

That goes for Curtis’ mention of “traditional maintenance” and “spot-checks,” too. Campa recalled his days as a command master chief, “when I would go out there and do spot checks and I would not let them pick what I was going to check — I would pick it myself, and let me tell you, ... too many times I would find something where the maintenance person wasn’t well-trained in how to do that maintenance.”

But as specific as Curtis made his expectations, they did not appear to have many teeth: Schanche said there were no new benchmarks or deadlines by which crews would be expected to show progress — “the benchmark is continuous improvement,” he said.

A boatswain’s mate aboard an amphibious ship in San Diego shook his head when asked whether the “pause” added more pressure on junior sailors to account for the waterfront shortfalls Curtis noticed.

“It’s not much more than usual,” he said.

Mark D. Faram and Gidget Fuentes contributed to this report.

 
geo said:
Ummm... correct me if I am wrong but, isn't the USN trying to phase out all the Arleigh Burkes?
Something about being too costrly to run - too large a crew needed to operate... if that is the case, then part of the story is explained but, the Ticonderoga really shouldn't be on that list....

Had the US MOD cut back on the navy that much ? / has personnel shortages reached the point of no return?

No the Burkes are the USNs ship of choice these days that are still under construction.
 
Ex Dragoon,
If the Burke is THE top of the line cat's a$$ choice, then it is absolutely ridiculous that IT should fail it's fitness test.
 
Geo,
  You were the one that stated the USN was phasing the class out of service not I. Do we not have maintenance issues? Do we not defer maintenance from time to time. Do COs sometimes feel that sailing is more beneficial then not? Its not right but it does happen.

geo said:
Ex Dragoon,
If the Burke is THE top of the line cat's a$$ choice, then it is absolutely ridiculous that IT should fail it's fitness test.

And before you are so dismissive of the class have you ever worked with the class, sail on or with any of them, seen then in action? I have and I will attest they are a fantastic piece of tech.

And from the report:
The Stout and Chosin failed their InSurvs because the crews didn’t follow standards, Rear Adm. Kevin Quinn, commander of the Atlantic Surface Forces, told Rep. Randy Forbes, a Virginia Republican and ranking member on the House Armed Services military readiness subcommittee. The two met April 23 to discuss surface force readiness, and Quinn said the bad performance was “a command issue,” not a money issue, Forbes told Navy Times.
The bolded comment says a lot. Whether it was training standards, maintenance standards or operational standards it does not really specify.
 
Ex D,
Don't get me wrong, it wasn't my intention to be dismissive of the Burke class of ships.
I was of the impression that the US had offered Canada the option to purchase one OR some  and that one of the reasons we chose to pass on the offer was that they were crew intensive and would cost a bundle to purchase / maintain... that,s all.
 
Geo...urban legend. A few years ago it was Spruance class destroyers in another couple of years it will be the LCS. Funny thing though is no one can ever produce the documents that stated these so called offers.
 
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