2022 CPC Leadership Discussion: Et tu Redeux

[Remius]

He actually has a platform.

No. He has promises and statements. Most of which stem from his successful leadership run. His policy platform has yet to be created officially. I believe Stephen Harper even counseled that they should wait for an election for that a few weeks ago.

Stephen Harper says Pierre Poilievre should save his policy platform for federal election

The former Prime Minister shared his thoughts at a conservative conference in Ottawa on Wednesday night

www.theglobeandmail.com

 

[ArmyRick]

I see what you did there…



Was discussing this very thing this morning with my definitely not-straight cousin. He noted that from his POV (interacting with straight, gay and trans communities), there is often greater personality-based negative sentiment within and amongst sub-groups in society than proportionally greater CIS/straight anti-trans (or anti-gay) sentiment. He said, “don’t underestimate trans (or gays’) ability to be b**chy and negative to each other!” It was interesting to hear that from him, TBH. He pointed out some of the very valid complaints of some elements of the trans community pointed out by Dave Chappel. A lot of his gay and trans friends ironically (to me at least) say, “Yeah, what the straight black guy said!”

Not a position as much as a ‘food for though’ single data point.

ironically, the Gay and Lesbian community has a broad spectrum of personalities from my view. I really don't know any trans. The few gay men I know are actually very right leaning and pro conservative (they hunt/ drive pick ups/drink beer/etc)

The few lesbians I know seem to vote NDP or green.

 

[ArmyRick]

No. He has promises and statements. Most of which stem from his successful leadership run. His policy platform has yet to be created officially. I believe Stephen Harper even counseled that they should wait for an election for that a few weeks ago.

Stephen Harper says Pierre Poilievre should save his policy platform for federal election

The former Prime Minister shared his thoughts at a conservative conference in Ottawa on Wednesday night

www.theglobeandmail.com

Sounds like a platform to me. No? A platform is a plan of actions they want to implement, no?

 

[Remius]

Sounds like a platform to me. No? A platform is a plan of actions they want to implement, no?

It’s actually just statements and promises. Until that gets fleshed out into an actual platform it’s just sound bites and surface level promises.

There is no platform yet.

 

[IKnowNothing]

He actually has a platform.

Oh, where?

Conservative Party of Canada

Today’s Conservative Party is a vibrant national organization with strong grassroots support from coast to coast to coast. The Party, its caucus, and its members upholding the proud Canadian Conservative tradition.

www.conservative.ca

 

[Remius]

ironically, the Gay and Lesbian community has a broad spectrum of personalities from my view. I really don't know any trans. The few gay men I know are actually very right leaning and pro conservative (they hunt/ drive pick ups/drink beer/etc)

The few lesbians I know seem to vote NDP or green.

Being gay or trans shouldn’t be or equate to a political leaning as you noted. But plenty of parties left and right seem to tie their policies and values on that. I suspect that here in Canada with a few minor exceptions that we’ve moved on from that sort of thing overall. At least I would hope so.

 

[ArmyRick]

Being gay or trans shouldn’t be or equate to a political leaning as you noted. But plenty of parties left and right seem to tie their policies and values on that. I suspect that here in Canada with a few minor exceptions that we’ve moved on from that sort of thing overall. At least I would hope so.

Many, many people I know hold preconceived notions that all gay men are feminine and totally liberal. Same with lesbians.

Real people like us, know sexuality does not dictate political leanings. It pisses me off when politicians (no, not just liberals) throw out cheap slogans to make it seem like they are the only ones to have their back.

 

[Quirky]

Got an alternative choice in party leaders? Lets hear it

Another Liberal win, or got help us, a majority win, would only accelerate the eventual western separation of canada. At least the libs would absolutely hit their carbon zero target with dirty western oil gone.

I really don't know any trans

That's because they don't exist to the extent governments and media want you think. The percentages are insignificant, around 0.33% of the population 15 and over in Canada. This trans wokeness is given too much attention for what it is, I'm sure the majority just want to be left alone.

 

[QV]

I see what you did there…

I was wondering if there was sarcasm that sailed 100' over my head... appears so

 

[Brad Sallows]

And true he could very well break promises

I wouldn't care much if he did. A CPC government doing nothing but lock out the LPC/NDP from constantly rearranging the furniture for 4-5 years is good enough.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Jobs today shouldn't poison your grandkids tomorrow.

Given the general observation that environmental condition plotted against economic development roughly yields a "bathtub" curve, dealing with degradation down the road is not merely an acceptable but a necessary trade if it's the cost of economic development. Otherwise, you get to the bottom of the "bathtub" and stay there.

 

[Brad Sallows]

It's interesting that so many people can come up with one vote-killing reason they won't vote for Poilievre's CPC, or didn't vote for Harper's CPC, but that there seem to be almost nothing the LPC or NDP can do to warrant the same penalty. Of course, it could just be that people are voting for other candidates. But not a lot of them, as the numbers show.

 

[Brad Sallows]

The few lesbians I know seem to vote NDP or green.

Probably also has something to do with being women. (Polls typically reveal measurable and sometimes substantial voting differences between men and women.)

 

[Navy_Pete]

Given the general observation that environmental condition plotted against economic development roughly yields a "bathtub" curve, dealing with degradation down the road is not merely an acceptable but a necessary trade if it's the cost of economic development. Otherwise, you get to the bottom of the "bathtub" and stay there.

I call BS on that to a certain extent; when the tech exists to handle the pollution not doing it deliberately is buddy-f*cking the future.

Similarly ignoring the environmental/human impact of open pit mining of rare earth metals for car batteries in other countries for 'green' tech (or dumping things to be 'recycled' in the third world) is ignoring the true cost. Just because you don't see it happening doesn't mean it isn't a real thing.

 

[Furniture]

It's interesting that so many people can come up with one vote-killing reason they won't vote for Poilievre's CPC, or didn't vote for Harper's CPC, but that there seem to be almost nothing the LPC or NDP can do to warrant the same penalty. Of course, it could just be that people are voting for other candidates. But not a lot of them, as the numbers show.

Could be that people emotionally choose who they like/dislike, then rationalize their choices...

Edit: For me, Trudeau would have to come out with something pretty amazing to overcome my distain for his smarmy personality.

 

[Brad Sallows]

I call BS on that to a certain extent; when the tech exists to handle the pollution not doing it deliberately is buddy-f*cking the future.

Similarly ignoring the environmental/human impact of open pit mining of rare earth metals for car batteries in other countries for 'green' tech (or dumping things to be 'recycled' in the third world) is ignoring the true cost. Just because you don't see it happening doesn't mean it isn't a real thing.

No BS. We got to where we are now by what was done in the past. If people had insisted on more of the true costs of externalities being internalized, much of what we have would have simply been unaffordable and not been done. No subways, mass transit, superhighways, steel mills, coal-burning power plants, etc. "This new-fangled electricity thing would be wonderful, but we can't afford the cost of mitigating the pollution".

So what would happen is a society would get to a point where it's in the bottom of the curve, look around and say "Gee, it's dirty. We insist this stop". There would be very little forward progress, so it would stay dirty. There would probably be backward progress - "we must do without X".

We might be in that situation right now, even though we're well up on the right-hand side of the curve already. There are no physical laws which prevent a society from stalling and falling.

 

[Navy_Pete]

Holy crap, it's not an all or nothing, but maybe huge tailing ponds with sand bars that fail with run off going into rivers used for drinking water isn't the best way to do things, or leaving wells venting methane after all the profit has pulled out and not including close out cost to the extractor is dumb.

I would rather we encourage manufacturing things here in Canada in a responsible way then ship it overseas to be done cheaply by dumping everything.

We shouldn't get to have clean water here in Canada at the cost of poisoning someone else's groundwater, and incinerating something overseas with no controls pumps a lot more bad stuff into the same atmosphere we are breathing here, we just don't big dirty clouds.

I'm not sure if you are being deliberately obtuse but I'm advocating for the opposite of not-developing an industry.

IF the BGHs wanted to encourage green industries, they'd be better off slapping tarriffs on cheap shit made with no environmental standards, but then the hippies would scream about the cost of living and how much patchouli and essential oils are.

 

[Brad Sallows]

IF the BGHs wanted to encourage green industries, they'd be better off slapping tarriffs on cheap shit made with no environmental standards, but then the hippies would scream about the cost of living and how much patchouli and essential oils are.

Substitute any kind of consumers and goods/services. What is priced out of range, doesn't get sold. What can't be sold, doesn't get done. The people who make cheap shit with no environmental standards go back to whatever they were doing before they were forced to make cheap shit with no environmental standards. (Because surely they didn't choose to make cheap shit with no environmental standards in preference to whatever they were doing before, right?)

If anything advocated/required causes costs to exceed likely revenues, it amounts to advocating not doing it. Yes, there's an intermediate region in which the costs raise the prices and purchasers continue to buy. Then it just means that purchasers forego something else. When you get less stuff for the same money, you're falling behind.

Note that it isn't having the tech that's important - being able to afford the tech is important. Obviously we've known the chemistry for reducing pollutants to harmless substances and elements for a long time, and known how to contain wastes for a long time.

 

[ArmyRick]

@Furniture "Could be that people emotionally choose who they like/dislike, then rationalize their choices..."

That is a civy version of situating the estimate.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

I wonder why his popularity is increasing in the polls? Not that I really trust polls

I wonder why gets a standing ovation everywhere he goes? ohhh

Trudeau? Gets booo'd to high hell.

I understand your not wanting to vote Trudeau, thats logical. I suspect your looking for a reason to not vote CPC. Did you vote for O'Tooles Conservatives? Or Scheer CPC?

Final question, are you from the East coast?

Poilievre was recently in North Saanich (Elizabeth May’s riding). There were between 1100-1300 people at his event. In a Green Party Riding. On the “Left Coast”. It did not get any press that I saw and it is only a single data point but…what other politician in Canada is drawing those crowds?