2022 CPC Leadership Discussion: Et tu Redeux

[brihard]

The sooner the better.

That’s kinda rich given that you’ve literally admitted here that the only reason you’re still serving with the military is to complete accruing a pension that’s majority funded by the taxpayer… While I respect your honestly in admitting that, it should also be a little bit of an ethical constraint on you.

I’m glad you aren’t making policy. I have a long term permanently disabled family member living off a pittance of a disability benefit and going through cancer treatment. Sounds like you’d leave him to die of leukaemia in the streets.

 

[Quirky]

Difference is, I work to acquire that pension as I pay income tax to support the 10m Canadians who don’t. Socialism never works and Canada will eventually fall apart under its own debt. This country is slowly circling the toilet.

 

[brihard]

Difference is, I work to acquire that pension as I pay income tax to support the 10m Canadians who don’t. Socialism never works and Canada will eventually fall apart under its own debt. This country is slowly circling the toilet.

Interesting to see which part of my reply you focused on and which part you pretended wasn’t there. That’s good to know about you.

 

[rmc_wannabe]

Difference is, I work to acquire that pension as I pay income tax to support the 10m Canadians who don’t. Socialismnever works and Canada will eventually fall apart under its own debt. This country is slowly circling the toilet.

I believe documented history is against you on this one.

Our species as a whole has survived millenia based on socialist ideals of "apes stronger together." Every advantage we've had in existence has been because a fellow homo sapien didn't simply say "mine" and leave your ancestors to starve or die in a culvert.

In the 21st century, our survival is based on the collective acceptance that the strong must protect the weak, including financially. Being able to provide the necessities of life to all within our society is the foundation of community and the primacy of what democracy is. That's well in line with the CAF Ethos we all are supposed to live, eat, and breathe.

Socialism has been around long before it became the boogeyman to every libertarian, capitalist, "I'm only temporarily poor... I can be rich if I want to..." hack with a podcast.

 

[Quirky]

Post

Canadians aren’t on the cusp of extinction and there is no way people should take more from the system than they put into it. Canada cannot sustain all its services if it keeps going down the drain, or what liberals call it - culture. National debt is climbing and healthcare, cost of living, immigration levels and available housing is all fu*ked. What we really need is a liberal majority gov for 4 more years to really collapse this country, maybe then something good can be rebuilt from the ashes.

 

[brihard]

there is no way people should take more from the system than they put into it.

Why not? You don’t. I don’t. Both of us are net extractors from the system- neither you nor I actually creates new value, extracts and enriches resources, creates and sells things from cheaper rawer goods… Instead we both serve as small cogs in our respective machines - slightly more literal in your case - paid by taxpayers to perpetuate and sustain entirely publicly funded systems that to some lesser or greater extent serve to socialize physical risk, and to defend against it.

By your logic, if we really chased it, any public sector worker not tangibly creating value or providing direct services to those who do would probably be excluded. You and I are just more economically evolved leeches, no?

* This is not my actual personal beliefs or values. I’m just following Quirky’s logic to where it must eventually lead.

 

[RangerRay]

So he's occasionally bombastic. And that's enough to make JT still palpable ?

He’s not acting like a prime minister. He’s acting like he wants to be opposition leader. Why would someone who is struggling with choosing choose someone who doesn’t want to be PM?

Again PP hasn't done anything, good or bad, yet. If after everything JT and his crew have done to this country the people will still hold their noses and vote for them that's on the people. I said earlier, Canada is a 2/3s left leaning country now. Its my belief the middle isn't what it used to be. The red tory and blue liberal are not as populace as they used to be.

He has done lots…as a minister in Harper’s government and as leader of the opposition, and he hasn’t really been impressing the people he needs to impress.

I would argue the LPC is better at instilling fear of "the others" than anyone else.

We’re agreed on that. Tories have always had to work harder to convince voters not naturally inclined to vote for them than the Liberals. PP not helping with his rhetoric. The proof is in the latest by-elections where the CPC vote share has DECREASED while the Liberals’ has INCREASED.

'What the heck is going on?': Poilievre's strategy gets hard look after uninspiring byelections

'Hopefully, he examines these by-elections closely, picks up the red flags and makes sure that we have a plan forward,' said Fred DeLorey

nationalpost.com

The CPC may not be expected to win in the Winnipeg or Mississauga by-elections, but there is no reason, other than present performance as leader of the opposition, the the CPC could not have performed better.

Yes, Warren Kinsella is a former Liberal, and still a “liberal”, but he has been trying to give the CPC free advice on how to defeat the Liberals. They aren’t paying attention.

My latest: what those by-elections mean for Poilievre

Musings

warrenkinsella.com

Instead, they seem to be trying to shore up their right flank against a fringe party rapidly fading in the rear view mirror:

Bringing it home in Portage—Lisgar

When someone shows you who they are...

paulwells.substack.com

And you know who sees those CPC pamphlets targeted to the good folks in Portage-Lisgar? The good folks who live in the cities and suburbs looking for an alternative.

When someone wants to replace an incompetent amateur, why would they replace with another incompetent amateur? PP needs to smarten up in a hurry if he wants to be PM like he keeps saying he wants to be.

 

[Halifax Tar]

He’s not acting like a prime minister.

See you lose me right there.

Of all the things that have gone on in JTs tenure you're more upset PP isn't acting like a PM ?

So that is what is making your hands wring ?

It sounds to me like you're searching for a reason not to like him.

 

[dimsum]

Socialism never works

The Scandinavian countries would disagree. Very high social services, very high taxes.

Canadians aren’t on the cusp of extinction and there is no way people should take more from the system than they put into it. Canada cannot sustain all its services if it keeps going down the drain, or what liberals call it - culture. National debt is climbing and healthcare, cost of living, immigration levels and available housing is all fu*ked. What we really need is a liberal majority gov for 4 more years to really collapse this country, maybe then something good can be rebuilt from the ashes.

If you're not making enough to pay income tax, you're not going to be living luxuriously - you are barely getting by day to day.

You have to be making less than $12950/yr under age 65 if you don't pay income tax.

Serious question - how is it that 25% of Canadians earn that little? Are you including minors into the 10 million? StatsCan says that the poverty indicator is less than 10%.

 

[IKnowNothing]

The Scandinavian countries would disagree. Very high social services, very high taxes.


If you're not making enough to pay income tax, you're not going to be living luxuriously - you are barely getting by day to day.

You have to be making less than $12950/yr under age 65 if you don't pay income tax.

Serious question - how is it that 25% of Canadians earn that little? Are you including minors into the 10 million? StatsCan says that the poverty indicator is less than 10%.

I generally agree with you, but that threshold isn't entirely technically correct. Between CCB, CWB, GST/HST credit it's possible for low income earners to pay materially inconsequential tax- as it should be. I suspect the uncited 10m claim is based on something like that. Reframing hardworking people in low paying jobs struggling to get by as freeloaders is either ignorant or dishonest.

 

[suffolkowner]

The Scandinavian countries would disagree. Very high social services, very high taxes.


If you're not making enough to pay income tax, you're not going to be living luxuriously - you are barely getting by day to day.

You have to be making less than $12950/yr under age 65 if you don't pay income tax.

Serious question - how is it that 25% of Canadians earn that little? Are you including minors into the 10 million? StatsCan says that the poverty indicator is less than 10%.

those damm lazy children again. Like I said in the daycare discussion we should send them all to work and kill two birds with one stone.

I also know its obvious that people that work harder are rewarded just look at how much I paid myself. We could weigh people at the start of the day and the end and pay them based on the sweat. Those more cerebral jobs we might have to hook up a light bulb totheir head or something

 

[brihard]

I also know its obvious that people that work harder are rewarded just look at how much I paid myself. We could weigh people at the start of the day and the end and pay them based on the sweat. Those more cerebral jobs we might have to hook up a light bulb totheir head or something

Dimmer switch for me, please.

 

[Quirky]

Everything is fine, your socialist policies at work.

 

[ArmyRick]

On health care and other ESSENTIAL assistance, I am actually ok with it.
In my mind, govt should provide (between the three levels)
-Essential health, no medical care (your responsible for your general health)
-Education
-Defence
-Law enforcement
-Immigration
-Justice
-Infrastructure
-Water
-Electricity/energy
-Environmental monitoring (Not by activist)
-Emergency services
-LIMITED assistance
-Bare bones Government to run it all

Arts, Religion, "awareness" BS, foreign funded sex stories (yup Trudeau's govt funded this shit), Social justice crap is NOT stuff tax payers should foot the bill.

 

[Rifleman62]

A suggestion.

 

[Quirky]

In my mind, govt should provide (between the three levels)
-Essential health, no medical care

Need life and death care - ER - Yes gov provided. Need aftercare to see doctors for surgeries etc, get a job and get private insurance. I'm done with wasting my tax money on your obesity or cigarette related issues that do nothing but strain healthcare systems.

 

[Lumber]

Everything is fine, your socialist policies at work.

View attachment 78321

The surge in housing prices has nothing to do with socialist policies.

 

[Halifax Tar]

The surge in housing prices has nothing to do with socialist policies.

Agreed. Its a stretch to blame our housing situation on some fear of a 5th column with a socialist agenda.

The issue is consumers. We continue to be willing gobble up higher prices by taking ridiculous mortgages. To counter myself; some times push comes to shove; but more than not I think people are trying to keep up with the jones'.

 

[Lumber]

Need life and death care - ER - Yes gov provided. Need aftercare to see doctors for surgeries etc, get a job and get private insurance. I'm done with wasting my tax money on your obesity or cigarette related issues that do nothing but strain healthcare systems.

Except that's not the result privatized healthcare would achieve, and this just shows how much of the propaganda you've been swallowing that the private health care and insurance industries are trying to feed you.

A single-payer, government-funded healthcare system offers the potential to reduce costs and improve health outcomes for everyone. By eliminating the complex web of private insurers, administrative costs can be significantly reduced. The streamlined system allows for simplified billing and lowers overhead expenses, enabling more resources to be allocated directly to patient care. Negotiating bulk purchasing of medications and medical supplies can also lead to significant cost savings. Moreover, a single-payer system prioritizes preventative care, emphasizing early interventions and proactive measures that can prevent costly chronic conditions in the long run. This approach promotes a healthier population, reducing the need for expensive treatments and hospitalizations. Additionally, a single-payer system provides equal access to healthcare, ensuring that everyone, regardless of their socioeconomic status, can receive necessary medical services. This eliminates disparities in health outcomes and creates a more equitable society where the health and well-being of all citizens are prioritized. Ultimately, by reducing costs and improving access to care, a single-payer healthcare system has the potential to generate better health outcomes for individuals and create a healthier, more prosperous society as a whole.

 

[Lumber]

Agreed. Its a stretch to blame our housing situation on some fear of a 5th column with a socialist agenda.

The issue is consumers. We continue to be willing gobble up higher prices by taking ridiculous mortgages. To counter myself; some times push comes to shove; but more than not I think people are trying to keep up with the jones'.

Low interest rates for so long didn't help. Everyone was gobbling up houses, either to flip 'em, or turn them into rental properties.

We're kind of stuck now, but I think it would have been healthier in the long term to keep interest rates at a higher level, but that's only "a good idea" if the housing prices remained "low" (and by low, I just mean lower than what they are now). There's a few videos/reels where people ask the question, "Would you rather own a house today at 2% or a house in 1987 at 19%?", and the answer is the house in 1987 at 19%, because even with such a ridiculous interest rate, the house was so much cheaper that it was overall more affordable. For home owners that's good, for landlords/flippers, it can be discouraging.