2022 CPC Leadership Discussion: Et tu Redeux

[Fishbone Jones]

If I have it right, he drew his biggest line in the sand. Putting everything he's said about the rail strike together, he was pretty clear.

If the government forced the workers back to work and if it came to a confidence vote, he would pull his support and vote against the government.

The workers were forced back to work. Now we need a party to put it to a confidence vote. Maybe the Block, maybe the Cons or NDP.

Will he do it? Maybe. His pension comes due in Feb 25, I think. So he could pull the pin during the fall sitting and still get his pension.

I believe this is a line he can't back away from without losing union support.

We'll see what he does when Parliament resumes.

 

[brihard]

Really?

Yes, I referred to this above a few posts ago. I was specifically looking at the 338 popular vote polling (and I explained why that and not seat count), and noted it to be about 17 +/-3%, well within margin of error of their popular support in the last election. I brought that up only in the context of I don’t see it supporting a claim of them losing credibility. Anything beyond or outside of that isn’t the narrow thing I was talking about. That’s all I was taking about there.

 

[IKnowNothing]

I just find Singh oxymoronic. A millionaire lawyer, making zero attempt to hide his high priced baubles and bows, leading what is supposed to be a blue collar, lunchbucket party. Champagne Socialism at its finest.

I have no use for Jagmeet Singh or the NDP, but "Champagne Socialism" as a pejorative in the current political context is a blatant and lazy ad hominem to discredit and gatekeep those of means and influence from having non-fiscal conservative views.

 

[Good2Golf]

I have no use for Jagmeet Singh or the NDP, but "Champagne Socialism" as a pejorative in the current political context is a blatant and lazy ad hominem to discredit and gatekeep those of means and influence from having non-fiscal conservative views.

Maybe, maybe not. Generally those rich through parents tend to be more champagney and less fiscally-conservative compared to those who created their own wealth by generally being smart with their money, many of those being of a socially progressive and fiscally conservative lean.

 

[brihard]

Maybe, maybe not. Generally those rich through parents tend to be more champagney and less fiscally-conservative compared to those who created their own wealth by generally being smart with their money, many of those being of a socially progressive and fiscally conservative lean.

Any idea if Singh comes from wealth? I know nothing about his early life beyond what’s on Wiki. As near as I can tell he earned his way into law school, worked criminal defence at a firm before hanging his own shingle, then onwards and upwards from there. I can’t discern if he had much of a head start or was truly self made in that

 

[IKnowNothing]

Maybe, maybe not. Generally those rich through parents tend to be more champagney and less fiscally-conservative compared to those who created their own wealth by generally being smart with their money, many of those being of a socially progressive and fiscally conservative lean.

Does that matter? Does it invalidate their opinion? It's not like we're talking about turn of the century academics musing about seizing the means of production and living as equals, "socialism" in this context pretty much comes down to a couple of percentage points here and there on taxes and debating what services taxes should pay for.

You're wealthy and and are are in favour of high/ more progressive taxation and a more robust social safety net? ? Unless you're willing to donate yourself down to the poor house you're a hypocrite you champagne socialist.

You're poor/ middle class and are are in favour of high/ more progressive taxation and a more robust social safety net? You're lazy and envious looking for a handout- it's easy to spend other people's money.
That's a neat little propagandic bow that's been tied around the denying validity of left wing opinions

 

[RangerRay]

I have a hard time taking seriously a rich person advocating for the government to raise taxes on the middle class to pay for their guilt. Because that’s who ends up paying for it no matter what.

Mind you, I also have a hard time taking any rich person seriously who pontificates about stuff well outside their specific expertise that got them rich, or who think it’s a good idea to pay to go in a fibreglass tank controlled with a PlayStation controller to see the Titanic…

 

[Good2Golf]

It doesn’t (shouldn’t) invalidate either perspectives of the wealthy. You seems to imply that all wealthy were of a socialist leaning, and I was noting that there is a non-zero amount of fiscal conservatives of wealth.

 

[dimsum]

Any idea if Singh comes from wealth? I know nothing about his early life beyond what’s on Wiki. As near as I can tell he earned his way into law school, worked criminal defence at a firm before hanging his own shingle, then onwards and upwards from there. I can’t discern if he had much of a head start or was truly self made in that

To that end, what about Jack Layton? I know nothing about his family wealth (if any), upbringing, etc. What I do know is that it’s unlikely that any leader of a major Canadian political party is poor or even lower-middle-class.

 

[Good2Golf]

Any idea if Singh comes from wealth? I know nothing about his early life beyond what’s on Wiki. As near as I can tell he earned his way into law school, worked criminal defence at a firm before hanging his own shingle, then onwards and upwards from there. I can’t discern if he had much of a head start or was truly self made in that

His father was upper-caste Punjabi (hence Singh dropping his birth upper-caste last name of Daliwhal after he left law practice to become a politician) prior to moving to Canada, and after the initial financial challenge in a new country and going through med school, the family seems to have done well enough getting settled in Windsor, less Jagmeet’s being sent to high school in Detroit to avoid Windsor schooling violence and racism…which is a statement in and of itself.

I would say he earned his prosperity earnestly, but having a physician father and bank manager mother and a latent socia upper-caste background doesn’t make him a slum dog millionaire type who grew up in poverty and has seen the worst of Canadian society (…just Windsor… )

Inspiring Journey From Jimmy Dhaliwal to Jagmeet Singh

Here is an inspirational story of transformation of newly selected NDP Leader Jagmeet Singh from Jimmy Dhaliwal.

www.sikhnet.com

 

[suffolkowner]

I have no use for Jagmeet Singh or the NDP, but "Champagne Socialism" as a pejorative in the current political context is a blatant and lazy ad hominem to discredit and gatekeep those of means and influence from having non-fiscal conservative views.

where are those fiscal conservatives you speak of?

 

[Edward Campbell]

where are those fiscal conservatives you speak of?

There aren't a lot of them in Canada. I think many (most?) of Mr Poilievre's supporters are 'big government conservatives' like the folks who backed George W Bush in in the late. 1990s and early 2000s.

 

[suffolkowner]

There aren't a lot of them in Canada. I think many (most?) of Mr Poilievre's supporters are 'big government conservatives' like the folks who backed George W Bush in in the late. 1990s and early 2000s.

I think there's a problem finding them anywhere is space and time. A lot of todays Conservatives seem to be drawn by something other, more of a fringe US libertarianism bent that we have imported. Still as questionable as PP might be in this case I think I prefer the devil I dont know to the one I do

 

[SeaKingTacco]

I think there's a problem finding them anywhere is space and time. A lot of todays Conservatives seem to be drawn by something other, more of a fringe US libertarianism bent that we have imported. Still as questionable as PP might be in this case I think I prefer the devil I dont know to the one I do

The Liberals will not get rid of JT any other way, unless he gets beat in an Election- that has been made abundantly clear.

Whatever the faults of PP and current CPC, they represent a cleaning of the dead, stinking carcass that is the LPC.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I have no use for Jagmeet Singh or the NDP, but "Champagne Socialism" as a pejorative in the current political context is a blatant and lazy ad hominem to discredit and gatekeep those of means and influence from having non-fiscal conservative views.

Are you trying to cancel me? Im offended you're offended.

champagne socialist​

noun
a professed socialist who enjoys an extravagant lifestyle

Collins English Dictionary. Copyright © HarperCollins Publishers

Sorry if it ruins your day but I'm not required or obligated to apply your definitions or interpretations to my speech.

 

[dimsum]

Are you trying to cancel me? Im offended you're offended.

champagne socialist​

noun
a professed socialist who enjoys an extravagant lifestyle

Collins English Dictionary. Copyright © HarperCollins Publishers

Sorry if it ruins your day but I'm not required or obligated to apply your definitions or interpretations to my speech.

I’m not sure that’s what “cancelling” means.

Disagreeing is not the same as cancelling.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

His father was upper-caste Punjabi (hence Singh dropping his birth upper-caste last name of Daliwhal after he left law practice to become a politician) prior to moving to Canada, and after the initial financial challenge in a new country and going through med school, the family seems to have done well enough getting settled in Windsor, less Jagmeet’s being sent to high school in Detroit to avoid Windsor schooling violence and racism…which is a statement in and of itself.

I would say he earned his prosperity earnestly, but having a physician father and bank manager mother and a latent socia upper-caste background doesn’t make him a slum dog millionaire type who grew up in poverty and has seen the worst of Canadian society (…just Windsor… )

Inspiring Journey From Jimmy Dhaliwal to Jagmeet Singh

Here is an inspirational story of transformation of newly selected NDP Leader Jagmeet Singh from Jimmy Dhaliwal.

www.sikhnet.com

WTF? Seriously? Here's a statement in and of itself. Windsor is one of the most culturally and race diverse cities in Canada. It's also one of the safest.

 

[Good2Golf]

WTF? Seriously? Here's a statement in and of itself. Windsor is one of the most culturally and race diverse cities in Canada. It's also one of the safest.

Yeah, can’t help having my spider-sense wonder WTF? Trying to wrap my head around “home town Windsor not safe enough, so sending him to Detroit…”

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I know a few guys that were in his classes at school in Windsor. Wishing to remain my usually polite self, I won’t repeat the things they have to say about him. It'll get me banned for telling the truth about our politicians.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Yeah, can’t help having my spider-sense wonder WTF? Trying to wrap my head around “home town Windsor not safe enough, so sending him to Detroit…”
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My mistake.