2022 CPC Leadership Discussion: Et tu Redeux

[Lumber]

Conservatives call off probe into misogynistic tags on Poilievre’s YouTube channel - National | Globalnews.ca

The Conservative leader said Thursday he rejects 'all misogyny and all acts of extremism' after Global News revealed a hidden misogynistic tag on his YouTube videos.

globalnews.ca

These are dumb mistakes to be making at this point. Some will argue the media is attacking him but at some point these things start adding up to patterns.

So apparently they verified that these "ghost tags" have been attached to their videos for years going back to 2018. They jsut used the same ones over and over again. So it's not PP and his possy that decided to do it, but it makes you wonder who DID decide in the first place to include it.

 

[Brad Sallows]

The tag is #mgtow? Bullsh!t; the entirety of "men going their own way" isn't misogynistic just because it's often lumped together with everything else constituting "men's issues" or because some of the people claiming to be going their own way are also affiliated with more extreme beliefs. Association fallacy, promoted mostly by women with their own axes to grind. Not everything men do that doesn't suit women is misogynistic. Many men going their own way are just men living without a woman.

[PS. Don't bother producing cites to Wikipedia or any other online resource that is polluted when it comes to sociopolitical issues.]

 

[Lumber]

The tag is #mgtow? Bullsh!t; the entirety of "men going their own way" isn't misogynistic just because it's often lumped together with everything else constituting "men's issues" or because some of the people claiming to be going their own way are also affiliated with more extreme beliefs. Association fallacy, promoted mostly by women with their own axes to grind. Not everything men do that doesn't suit women is misogynistic. Many men going their own way are just men living without a woman.

[PS. Don't bother producing cites to Wikipedia or any other online resource that is polluted when it comes to sociopolitical issues.]

Ok fine, here's a link to a post on a men's group website that explains and supports the claim that #mgtow is "Just like other communities under the manosphere, the MGTOW forum is connected to white supremacist and alt-right movements. It has been implicated in online cases of harassment against women".

MGTOW: The Ultimate Guide to Men Going Their Own Way Movement

 

[Brad Sallows]

Same mistake - people who don't like something, presuming to dictate exactly what it is. Might as well go to Vox for exposition of and advice to conservatives. The old rule - you can prove anything if you dictate the evidence and definitions - applies. For some people, MGTOW is just ... doing their own thing. I suppose the best way of going your own way is to ignore other people telling you which way to go. Every popular movement has sewage.

Women fill the airwaves and internet with constant chatter of all the ways in which women don't need men and can be their own people and do their own thing; let men start doing it, and they all get tarred with the sins of the worst among them. I suppose MGTOW joins the list of movements which have diverged in so many directions that their names are no longer useful. But at least don't make the same mistake some people make with the TEA Party - lumping the early adopters, or anyone else, in with the later splinters that were hijacked by assholes.

 

[Quirky]

LPC, CPC or NDP supporter I don’t care, the real problem with this country is the media and how they influence politics. This country is a disaster in so many ways, the world is closer to Armageddon than we have ever been and a video that got 1000 views is what they report on. Journalists really are pieces of sh*t.

 

[QV]

LPC, CPC or NDP supporter I don’t care, the real problem with this country is the media and how they influence politics. This country is a disaster in so many ways, the world is closer to Armageddon than we have ever been and a video that got 1000 views is what they report on. Journalists really are pieces of sh*t.

Hell yes

 

[Lumber]

LPC, CPC or NDP supporter I don’t care, the real problem with this country is the media and how they influence politics. This country is a disaster in so many ways, the world is closer to Armageddon than we have ever been and a video that got 1000 views is what they report on. Journalists really are pieces of sh*t.

This is why you need the CBC. Privately owned media will report whatever makes them the most money, not what morally or philosophically "should" be reported. A publicly funded but independent media (i.e. CBC) will be far more likely report on things that "should" be reported on, even if it's not the sexiest content.

The country is a disaster in very very few ways, especially if you compare it against some real shit-hole countries in this world. We are not "closer than ever", but we are "closer than we've been in a long time".

About journalists being pieces of shit and not reporting on waht's important? Yea, let's take a look at that. The top stories right now on various news sites:

CBC: Russia-Ukraine
CTV News: Russia-Ukraine
CNN: Russia-Ukraine
BBC: Russia-Ukraine
NBC: Russia-Ukraine
Al-Jazeera: Russia-Ukraine
Sky News: Russia-Ukraine
Reuters: Russia-Ukraine
AP: Russia-Ukraine
EuroNews: Russia-Ukraine
WaPo: Russia-Ukraine
Newsweek: Russia-Ukraine
WSJ (World): European Energy Crisis
Al Arabiya News: Iraq
The Hill: Russia-Ukraine
Globe and Mail: Russia-Ukraine (Putin)
Ottawa Citizen "world" news section: Irish dancing sexual favours/cheating scandal
National Post "world" news section: Irish dancing sexual favours/cheating scandal
The Post Mellenial: Trudeau and the WEF
NEWSMAX: Russia-Ukraine (kind of surprised here, actually)
OANN: Biden's Florida/Hurricane Ian Response
Washington Examiner: US Political crap (MAGA vs DACA)
The Washington Times: Some GOP threats of impeaching DHS heads
Breitart (because why not?): Kanye West and "White Lives Matter"
Fox: Hunter fucking Biden

 

[Quirky]

This is why you need the CBC.

You mean the arm of the Liberal Party. Ok, that's a good one. CBC needs to the first on PPs chopping block.

 

[FSTO]

This is why you need the CBC. Privately owned media will report whatever makes them the most money, not what morally or philosophically "should" be reported. A publicly funded but independent media (i.e. CBC) will be far more likely report on things that "should" be reported on, even if it's not the sexiest content.

The country is a disaster in very very few ways, especially if you compare it against some real shit-hole countries in this world. We are not "closer than ever", but we are "closer than we've been in a long time".

About journalists being pieces of shit and not reporting on waht's important? Yea, let's take a look at that. The top stories right now on various news sites:

CBC: Russia-Ukraine
CTV News: Russia-Ukraine
CNN: Russia-Ukraine
BBC: Russia-Ukraine
NBC: Russia-Ukraine
Al-Jazeera: Russia-Ukraine
Sky News: Russia-Ukraine
Reuters: Russia-Ukraine
AP: Russia-Ukraine
EuroNews: Russia-Ukraine
WaPo: Russia-Ukraine
Newsweek: Russia-Ukraine
WSJ (World): European Energy Crisis
Al Arabiya News: Iraq
The Hill: Russia-Ukraine
Globe and Mail: Russia-Ukraine (Putin)
Ottawa Citizen "world" news section: Irish dancing sexual favours/cheating scandal
National Post "world" news section: Irish dancing sexual favours/cheating scandal
The Post Mellenial: Trudeau and the WEF
NEWSMAX: Russia-Ukraine (kind of surprised here, actually)
OANN: Biden's Florida/Hurricane Ian Response
Washington Examiner: US Political crap (MAGA vs DACA)
The Washington Times: Some GOP threats of impeaching DHS heads
Breitart (because why not?): Kanye West and "White Lives Matter"
Fox: Hunter fucking Biden

CBC needs to get out of the entertainment business and get back to local, provincial, national and international news.

 

[Navy_Pete]

You mean the arm of the Liberal Party. Ok, that's a good one. CBC needs to the first on PPs chopping block.

Interesting how the big push from that is from the privately owned media, who has largely consolidated under a single entity and is pushing to get rid of their publically funded competition.

Lots of CBC stories against the LPC in general, and because they still have local outstations one of the few national news reporters that will bring up local issues (like the various scandals in some of the LPC MP offices), and also lead the charge on things like the Adm Norman farce, Trudeau's various grabby handing and ethical lapses, CAF sexual assault, MMWIG committee shit show, and all sorts of other big issues that is pretty bad for the LPC.

If you think the LPC base is reading CBC a lot, wouldn't stories against the LPC on CBC be to the CPC benefit?

There is the occasional unfavourable article about CPC/PP in the politics section, but the NP and other large outlets generally go the other way, so seems to be a balance if you look at both. It's also not unreasonable to ask why PP is going hard at high housing/rental costs when he gets a steady income as part of his rental property interests, which I'm sure are at the same high levels as the rest of the market, or ask why he's attracting a high number of wing nuts on the right wing end of things and is an attractive candidate for some white supremecists. If I found actual neo-nazis agreeing with what I was saying, I'd probably stop and take a long hard look at what I was doing/saying. I don't think he's personnally a supremacist, but at the very least he has people on his team that are deliberately courting those groups, so he probably needs to do some team purges and set some really clear, unequivacol lines in the sand.

 

[Remius]

From the National Post and why the story matters.

Chris Selley: Misogynist hashtag should be a wake-up call to Pierre Poilievre

He has a compelling and important message, and a very tired opponent in Justin Trudeau. There is no need to wink at weirdos and extremists

nationalpost.com

 

[Halifax Tar]

Pardon me if I discard "news" about gasp hashtags. #GMAB (Give me a break)

I'll wait to see him on the next campaign trail and see how he conducts himself until then in the HOC.

 

[Lumber]

Pardon me if I discard "news" about gasp hashtags. #GMAB (Give me a break)

I'll wait to see him on the next campaign trail and see how he conducts himself until then in the HOC.

Are you saying (by your use "gasp" and sarcastic "#GMAB") that you feel that because it's a discussion about a technological tool (tagging/hash-tagging/key-wording) that is used by social media platforms that is suddenly something trivial to discuss? As if somehow the use of more "modern" methods of communication suddenly makes them invalid? Just because #hastagging appeared on a really funny SNL skit, doesn't mean you can ignore it.

This is about the conservatives actively trying to reach out and connect with, as I pointed out earlier, groups that are "connected to white supremacist and alt-right movements." that have been "implicated in online cases of harassment against women."

 

[Navy_Pete]

Pardon me if I discard "news" about gasp hashtags. #GMAB (Give me a break)

I'll wait to see him on the next campaign trail and see how he conducts himself until then in the HOC.

These are things that are running in the background that are absolutely critical for when the automatic algorithms are suggesting 'play next' items.

You may not care, but doesn't change the fact that that specifically pushes his carefully managed content to people on the crazy end of the political spectrum in a very targeted way. Incels, misanthropes and misogynists have very active online communities and you don't have to look hard to see the occasional suicidal attack on random people that comes out of it. Someone did that very deliberately to push it to that specific group.

Again, I don't think PP knew about it, but if you are going to go big on social media, then that's the risk you take. I do like that he owned it, and came out strongly against the concept, but things like this are the reason that he gets pictures taken with random people that turn out to be extremists, as someone is trying to manipulate search algorithms to deliberately attract them.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Are you saying (by your use "gasp" and sarcastic "#GMAB") that you feel that because it's a discussion about a technological tool (tagging/hash-tagging/key-wording) that is used by social media platforms that is suddenly something trivial to discuss? As if somehow the use of more "modern" methods of communication suddenly makes them invalid? Just because #hastagging appeared on a really funny SNL skit, doesn't mean you can ignore it.

This is about the conservatives actively trying to reach out and connect with, as I pointed out earlier, groups that are "connected to white supremacist and alt-right movements." that have been "implicated in online cases of harassment against women."

I am saying its fluff reporting, a distraction; and made up "outrage". Its fast food for the opposition with little substance or sustenance, much like a dollar store chocolate bar. Its a big fat double patty nothing burger.

But I don't expect much more from our media and its readers/watchers/listeners these days.

These are things that are running in the background that are absolutely critical for when the automatic algorithms are suggesting 'play next' items.

You may not care, but doesn't change the fact that that specifically pushes his carefully managed content to people on the crazy end of the political spectrum in a very targeted way. Incels, misanthropes and misogynists have very active online communities and you don't have to look hard to see the occasional suicidal attack on random people that comes out of it. Someone did that very deliberately to push it to that specific group.

Again, I don't think PP knew about it, but if you are going to go big on social media, then that's the risk you take. I do like that he owned it, and came out strongly against the concept, but things like this are the reason that he gets pictures taken with random people that turn out to be extremists, as someone is trying to manipulate search algorithms to deliberately attract them.

 

[Lumber]

I am saying its fluff reporting, a distraction; and made up "outrage". Its fast food for the opposition with little substance or sustenance, much like a dollar store chocolate bar. Its a big fat double patty nothing burger.

How in the actual hell can you say that evidence that the party at some point was ACTIVELY trying to court extremists is "of little substance"????

 

[Halifax Tar]

How in the actual hell can you say that evidence that the party at some point was ACTIVELY trying to court extremists is "of little substance"????

I told you I don't care and am tuning it out, I wont be drawn into another stupid forum debate about this crap.

We can debate when their electoral platform is out for consumption.

 

[Brad Sallows]

A public broadcaster like the CBC is no help. There they were beaking off about how the last storm was evidence of climate change, at the same time the NOAA was (yet again) pointing out that the quantity and intensity of hurricanes has not been increasing recently for any reason, let alone climate change.

Someone stuck the tag in the video; without knowing who it was, blaming "the party" for outreach is premature.

What is unfolding now is a fight Poilievre should simply decline, since it is not one he can win. Just remove the unnecessary tags. Opponents and activists have already called for apologies, denunciations, and/or explanations. If he offers none, he loses. If he offers less than they demand, he loses. If he bends a knee exactly as they decree, he loses and they know exactly how to manipulate him. This dance has played out innumerable times the past few years. The only way to win is not to play.

 

[Remius]

A public broadcaster like the CBC is no help. There they were beaking off about how the last storm was evidence of climate change, at the same time the NOAA was (yet again) pointing out that the quantity and intensity of hurricanes has not been increasing recently for any reason, let alone climate change.

Someone stuck the tag in the video; without knowing who it was, blaming "the party" for outreach is premature.

What is unfolding now is a fight Poilievre should simply decline, since it is not one he can win. Just remove the unnecessary tags. Opponents and activists have already called for apologies, denunciations, and/or explanations. If he offers none, he loses. If he offers less than they demand, he loses. If he bends a knee exactly as they decree, he loses and they know exactly how to manipulate him. This dance has played out innumerable times the past few years. The only way to win is not to play.

Just a note, Global News broke the story not the CBC, most have carried it after though.

 

[QV]

A public broadcaster like the CBC is no help. There they were beaking off about how the last storm was evidence of climate change, at the same time the NOAA was (yet again) pointing out that the quantity and intensity of hurricanes has not been increasing recently for any reason, let alone climate change.

Someone stuck the tag in the video; without knowing who it was, blaming "the party" for outreach is premature.

What is unfolding now is a fight Poilievre should simply decline, since it is not one he can win. Just remove the unnecessary tags. Opponents and activists have already called for apologies, denunciations, and/or explanations. If he offers none, he loses. If he offers less than they demand, he loses. If he bends a knee exactly as they decree, he loses and they know exactly how to manipulate him. This dance has played out innumerable times the past few years. The only way to win is not to play.

Do people really want a government and media that play by these kinds of rules? There ought to be a long hard look in the mirror before the next election.