2023 CAF Recruiting Ad

[mariomike]

"We’re talking the 17-25 crowd.

I assume people in the 17-25 crowd listen to advice from their parents. Perhaps still live with them.

I had a serious discussion with my father during the last year of high school.

So did my kid sister. She chose the Regular Force, and made a career of it.

... unless 'the mark' is why your Granddad joined the Army

Got to know them both pretty well. But, never asked "why" they joined the Canadian Army "for the duration of the war".

It may have been patriotism, or wait to get drafted.

I got three reasons for bein' in the Army. First, I'm patriotic. Second, I love my country. And third, they nailed me.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

fat finger vs iPhone error

 

[Eye In The Sky]

More than 40k now, it’s been indexed since the year it was established. I haven’t taken mine yet but I think it’s up to 46k. Eyeballing a masters in another couple years.absolutely CAF should be capitalizing on that. Accept that some troops will only be in for a certain amount of time.

 

[daftandbarmy]

More than 40k now, it’s been indexed since the year it was established. I haven’t taken mine yet but I think it’s up to 46k. Eyeballing a masters in another couple years.absolutely CAF should be capitalizing on that. Accept that some troops will only be in for a certain amount of time.

Who, and how many, would suffer through the mandatory minimum (6 years) just to wait for $40k in education money they can get through Student Loans when they're 20 years old?

I assume that someone, somewhere, did some analysis on the target audiences to come up with the 6 year-12 year gateways. Or not.

Bribing people to endure a bad experience seldom results in the right kind of employee motivations for most normal organizations.

 

[dapaterson]

The difference between loans and the education benefit is that the former must be repaid with interest, while the latter is a taxable benefit in the hands of the recipient.

 

[brihard]

Who, and how many, would suffer through the mandatory minimum (6 years) just to wait for $40k in education money they can get through Student Loans when they're 20 years old?

I assume that someone, somewhere, did some analysis on the target audiences to come up with the 6 year-12 year gateways. Or not.

Bribing people to endure a bad experience seldom results in the right kind of employee motivations for most normal organizations.

Oh, I don’t know that much analysis was done. ETB was firmly a VAC initiative, and I don’t think CAF had much if any input. In the short term I suspect it catalyzed quite a few releases. The intent was mostly to help slap a band aid on the briefly high profile issue of troops failing in transition to civilian life. In practice it incentivized many of us with enough service to release.

But as for who would join for that? Dude, EI bill education benefits in the US are a key attractor. The VAC ETB doesn’t have to be paid back, unlike student loans. And there can be a certain attraction in saying “hey, spend a few years with us, figure out what you want to do with your life, and if CAF isn’t ultimately for you, at 23 or 24 VAC will help you go to post secondary and carry on to a new path”. That’s not a terrible thing if used right.

 

[daftandbarmy]

The difference between loans and the education benefit is that the former must be repaid with interest, while the latter is a taxable benefit in the hands of the recipient.

Which makes sense if your target audience is far seeing and fiscally astute, which most student aged people/ people who the military usually targets are not.



One nontraditional student “was a quarter-million dollars in debt—but she wasn’t losing sleep over it. I was losing sleep when I looked through the notes on her account, but when I met the woman, she had a great attitude,” he says. She recognized her mistakes but calmly vowed to get out of debt.

Survey: College students need help with financial literacy

A survey of students’ personal finance realities reveals the need for stronger financial literacy education and support.

www.insidehighered.com

 

[daftandbarmy]

Oh, I don’t know that much analysis was done. ETB was firmly a VAC initiative, and I don’t think CAF had much if any input. In the short term I suspect it catalyzed quite a few releases. The intent was mostly to help slap a band aid on the briefly high profile issue of troops failing in transition to civilian life. In practice it incentivized many of us with enough service to release.

But as for who would join for that? Dude, EI bill education benefits in the US are a key attractor. The VAC ETB doesn’t have to be paid back, unlike student loans. And there can be a certain attraction in saying “hey, spend a few years with us, figure out what you want to do with your life, and if CAF isn’t ultimately for you, at 23 or 24 VAC will help you go to post secondary and carry on to a new path”. That’s not a terrible thing if used right.

Nice to see the great alignment between CAF and VAC policies

 

[dimsum]

Oh, I don’t know that much analysis was done. ETB was firmly a VAC initiative, and I don’t think CAF had much if any input. In the short term I suspect it catalyzed quite a few releases. The intent was mostly to help slap a band aid on the briefly high profile issue of troops failing in transition to civilian life. In practice it incentivized many of us with enough service to release.

But as for who would join for that? Dude, EI bill education benefits in the US are a key attractor. The VAC ETB doesn’t have to be paid back, unlike student loans. And there can be a certain attraction in saying “hey, spend a few years with us, figure out what you want to do with your life, and if CAF isn’t ultimately for you, at 23 or 24 VAC will help you go to post secondary and carry on to a new path”. That’s not a terrible thing if used right.

Why we (the CAF) doesn't immediately put on the $40k VAC education bill on the front page of every Recruiting site is beyond me.

Then again, it's a VAC thing, not a DND thing, so VAC could presumably end it without DND consent.

 

[brihard]

Why we (the CAF) doesn't immediately put on the $40k VAC education bill on the front page of every Recruiting site is beyond me.

Then again, it's a VAC thing, not a DND thing, so VAC could presumably end it without DND consent.

Yeah, then CAF changes the website again. Any regulatory change would be published for comment way ahead of time anyway, it’s not like it would be VAC’s fault when it still catches CAF by surprise.

 

[dapaterson]

Yeah, then CAF changes the website again. Any regulatory change would be published for comment way ahead of time anyway, it’s not like it would be VAC’s fault when it still catches CAF by surprise.

The CAF is surprised by APS every year.

The CAF is surprised by Remembrance Day occurring on November 11 every year.

The CAF is surprised by the end of the fiscal year on 31 March every year.

 

[Booter]

The CAF is surprised by APS every year.

The CAF is surprised by Remembrance Day occurring on November 11 every year.

The CAF is surprised by the end of the fiscal year on 31 March every year.

RCMP too…

 

[ballz]

Oh, I don’t know that much analysis was done. ETB was firmly a VAC initiative, and I don’t think CAF had much if any input. In the short term I suspect it catalyzed quite a few releases. The intent was mostly to help slap a band aid on the briefly high profile issue of troops failing in transition to civilian life. In practice it incentivized many of us with enough service to release.

This one still has me torn between laughing or crying. At the same time that the ETB was being created which allows you to take essentially any training education in almost anything*, tons of programs were being stripped out of the ILP because it was so popular among those in uniforms that they were now "$1 million over budget" at CDA... meanwhile the CAF as a whole was turning in $1 billion dollars a year.

I was lucky my designation was already done, but here you had the highest ranking Finance officer, a 2-star, pushing to try and get more finance officers to start their CPA designations, and at the same time CDA cutting it out of the ILP because it was a "designation" and not a Bachelor's/Masters - even though every Masters of Accounting program in Canada actually gets their accredition from CPA Canada and it's the exact same material as the CPA designation**

They literally should just scrap ILP and ETC and create a benefit for anybody with at least 3 years of service (caveat: unless you're on obligatory service already... so if you just got out of ROTP you can wait until your 5 years is paid back) for paid education (perhaps x/year of service, to a maximum of $100k) - retired or not - administered through VAC... couple that with no longer being archaic about "Leave without pay" so that if you want to take a sabbatical year and travel or do school or both, you can.



*As long the entity delivering it is on the approved list from ESDC. That list includes almost everything and their dog. Basically every international university or college is on there and a whole schwack of private, unregulated organization like churches, npo's, etc. You can literally use the ETB to go learn French in Switzerland or Spanish in Colombia (yes, I have considered both).

**The CPA delivers it's own education for the designation, which has always been part-time through the profession. So that market was taken, so some schools came up with the idea of creating a Masters of Accounting program that would teach all the CPA curriculum and qualify them to write the CPA profession's final entrance exams at the end. Because the part-time route is already essentially taken by CPA Canada, MAcc programs are only full-time.... so practically speaking, no Reg Force CAF member would be able to use their ILP for it... but if they could, the ILP would pay $45k for that program instead of $15k for the CPA program!

 

[lenaitch]

And how many generations is that though? One? Maybe two?

And plenty of generations before that where people would bounce job to job based on where the work was at. Maybe the gig economy is the norm.

I'm not convinced. It might have something to do with geography and demographics. People growing up in resource-based industrial towns may have moved around as the resources ebbed and flowed. If you grew up in an agricultural area, you probably stayed fairly close to home unless you decided to leave the farm. My dad's generation was interrupted by WWII war but, growing up in middle class southern Ontario, I don't recall anybody's dad (pretty much only dad worked) changing jobs or even that many families being uprooted. In my generation, of the ones I've kept in halfways contact with, there might have been some sorting out of employers in the late teens/early 20s but pretty much everybody stayed has stayed with same employer to the bitter end.

Regardless, I don't equate moving between employers or even careers with what's called the current 'gig economy'. People moved between employers to stay employed, make more money, change location, expand a career, etc. Gig work is putting bread (or more accurately, delivered fast food) on the table with little-to-no view down the road and no commitment. In some cases I can hardly blame them since the employers have little commitment to their people.

I assume people in the 17-25 crowd listen to advice from their parents. Perhaps still live with them.

They might still live with them but I'm not sure how much they are listening.


*****

I'm with Brihard on this. Regardless of which generation we are talking about, or which industry is trying the target them, talking about things like pension and benefits to most in their late teens or early 20s will be largely lost on them, particularly if they are single. Having a young family does tend to change focus. As a young single in the early 70s, all I wanted was a cool car and a good stereo system. I cared not about pension matters and benefits were for old people - how often do most people get sick in their 20s? To be sure, many benefits packages are much more comprehensive now, so services such as chiro and physio might click with younger folks who are more active.

 

[Navy_Pete]

I don't know why the ads target a single demographic; we recruit people between 17 and 56. Maybe a few different ad campaigns would make sense to run concurrently?

Do cool stuff and have adventures may appeal more to younger folks. A steady job with benefits would appeal to older folks (especially people working a gig economy churn). Similarly if there was a path for people to get a trade ticket and experience would at least get some in for their initial contract.

 

[Furniture]

I don't know why the ads target a single demographic; we recruit people between 17 and 56. Maybe a few different ad campaigns would make sense to run concurrently?

Do cool stuff and have adventures may appeal more to younger folks. A steady job with benefits would appeal to older folks (especially people working a gig economy churn). Similarly if there was a path for people to get a trade ticket and experience would at least get some in for their initial contract.

100% The CAF should be casting a wide net, and looking for not only the 19 year old infantry soldier, but also the 30 year old Cook.

 

[lenaitch]

I don't know why the ads target a single demographic; we recruit people between 17 and 56. Maybe a few different ad campaigns would make sense to run concurrently?

Do cool stuff and have adventures may appeal more to younger folks. A steady job with benefits would appeal to older folks (especially people working a gig economy churn). Similarly if there was a path for people to get a trade ticket and experience would at least get some in for their initial contract.

Agree. You can't realistically do all of that in one ad campaign.

 

[mariomike]

My dad's generation was interrupted by WWII war but, growing up in middle class southern Ontario, I don't recall anybody's dad (pretty much only dad worked) changing jobs or even that many families being uprooted. In my generation, of the ones I've kept in halfways contact with, there might have been some sorting out of employers in the late teens/early 20s but pretty much everybody stayed has stayed with same employer to the bitter end.

I went to the same public, junior and high school with the same kids.

Pretty much everybody stayed with the same school, and employer, to the bitter end.

The alumni for both - the job, much more so - have regular "real life" get togethers.

I go for the most selfish reason of all. We remind each other of when we were young.

To be sure, many benefits packages are much more comprehensive now, so services such as chiro and physio might click with younger folks who are more active.

Stress leave was unheard of, back then.

The great fear at the top of the service was that if an honourable path existed to escape 9-1-1 operations, many would take it.

It was like riding a train you couldn't get off.

I don't know what the 17-25 generation wants these days. I can only imagine. It was different back then. Not better, or worse, just different.

Do your work. Live your life. Simple as that.

I think the beauty of the CAF is they cast a pretty wide net. Part-time, full-time. Release, re-join. Not all employers offer that.

Be a Canadian citizen or permanent resident.

Be at least 18 years old (17 years old with parental consent), ( Correct me if I am wrong, but I think there used to be upper age limits to apply? )

Have completed at least Grade 10 or 24 credits of Secondary IV in Quebec (some jobs need higher levels of education)

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Seriously, grumbling is one thing, but the proof is in the pudding. We're bleeding people, and the longer we go without taking drastic steps to fix the problem the worse it'll get.

And it absolutely needs to be retention focused; otherwise we're increasing the rate at which we take people in, spend a load of money to train them, and then watch them leave for an employer that's offering a better deal.

This is not an issue that can remotely be fixed by focusing on recruitment. Hell with the training backlogs we've got, that would just make things worse overall.

Making the CAF more of a joke than it already is will definitely fix the CAF. It's an unserious organization run by an unserious Government atm which is why many have left.

The CDS was very clear that those who didn't agree with the direction taken by the CAF should leave.

No problem Sir! We have left or are leaving.

The job market was/is hot and former members are finding gainful employment elsewhere.


I personally love my new gig, I get to focus almost all my energy towards actual operations without having a daily dose of socio/political dogma poured down my throat!

 

[dimsum]

I personally love my new gig, I get to focus almost all my energy towards actual operations without having a daily dose of socio/political dogma poured down my throat!

But the CAF (and all militaries) are socio-political constructs. A military cannot be completely detached from the political system it is serving...the whole "war is politics by other means" bit.

Sure, some areas get more of the socio-political stuff focused on them (CPCC being an obvious example) but I don't think the Cpl at 4XX Sqn fixing an aircraft is getting bombarded daily by this stuff more so than any other Fed Gov worker.