27 Apr 2025: "Several people killed, others injured after vehicle drives into Vancouver street festival crowd: police"

[medicineman]

So to further this there are some people who are not clinically insane. We call them that but they aren't.

Have to be a bit pedantic - insanity is not a clinical diagnosis, it's a legal term that' been replaced by "NCR By Way Of Mental Illness or Incapacity" or words to that effect. The disease patterns or personality traits they're exhibiting are diagnoses under the DSM whatever we're up to now - V TR I think. BTW, one diagnostic code I've yet to find - normal, well adjusted human. Food for thought.

 

[OldSolduer]

Have to be a bit pedantic - insanity is not a clinical diagnosis, it's a legal term that' been replaced by "NCR By Way Of Mental Illness or Incapacity" or words to that effect. The disease patterns or personality traits they're exhibiting are diagnoses under the DSM whatever we're up to now - V TR I think. BTW, one diagnostic code I've yet to find - normal, well adjusted human. Food for thought.

That’s cool. I know this but forgot I knew it and now…. I think I’m insane

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I am going to alter our form up location for the Battle of the Atlantic parade this Sunday, so the Cadets are protected by bollards. Doubt there is any risk, but.....

 

[lenaitch]

BTW, one diagnostic code I've yet to find - normal, well adjusted human. Food for thought.

Maybe, clinically, they haven't found one yet.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Sigh.... let's hope so FFS ....

Les Leyne: Vancouver massacre could break pattern for responding to mental-health horror stories​

Typically, it’s a long, zigzag march towards any kind of progress. This time could be different

Maybe this time it will be different.

All the other mental-health horror stories that make their way to the legislature involving deranged people inflicting ghastly harm on citizens follow a similar pattern.

The horrifying details are recounted by the opposition, then there’s a strident demand for action.

The government ministers express their heartfelt condolences, and then read briefing notes explaining how the system did the best it could under whatever circumstances developed.

The critics grow testy and demand better answers. The ministers get frustrated and retreat into their message boxes.

When enough cases pile up, there is some incremental progress toward addressing the problem. Last week’s opening in a jail of a 10-bed involuntary care unit for inmates with mental-health problems is an example.

But it’s a long, zigzag march towards any kind of progress.

Vancouver’s Lapu Lapu massacre may transcend those pro forma exchanges of views.

The government set a different tone from the start, cancelling most of Monday’s sitting out of respect.

Politicians from all sides joined together at vigils. Premier David Eby on Tuesday morning tried to get out in front of all the pleas for action, saying he is leaning toward a public inquiry if the court proceedings don’t adequately answer all the questions.

He got well out in front of those court proceedings as well, basically convicting the suspect at a news conference.

“The number one priority is … ensuring this man is held and tried and convicted for these murders.

“I think this individual is a mass murderer. I think he should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.”

He told the legislature later: “I hope he spends the rest of his life behind bars.”

Eby acknowledged it will be up to a judge, but his views ignore the possibility of a “not criminally responsible on account of mental disorder” verdict eventually.

Eby’s remarks reflect the fact he spent the weekend in the midst of the sickening aftermath, talking to the devastated Filipino community.

He knows that the responsible agency’s opening position won’t satisfy anyone.

Les Leyne: Vancouver massacre could break pattern for responding to mental-health horror stories

Typically, it’s a long, zigzag march towards any kind of progress. This time could be different

www.timescolonist.com

 

[OldSolduer]

Eby has as far as I know no expertise in the MH field nor is he a doctor. His statements are premature and ill founded.

 

[brihard]

Presupposing the accused is fit to stand trial, Eby’s tainting the everliving hell out of a potential jury pool. Though then again, this is probably one where the accused wants to go judge alone. He ‘did the thing’ and was detained on scene by witnesses; any defence will be based on arguments about intent, and whether he had the mental competence to be criminally responsible. Establishing the facts will be extremely easy. This will be a Mens Rea trial, the fact that he was on a day pass from psychiatric care and had a mental health call with police a day prior will be a lot for the judge to chew on.

I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s found NCR and committed to secure psychiatric care.

 

[Staff Weenie]

Presupposing the accused is fit to stand trial, Eby’s tainting the everliving hell out of a potential jury pool. Though then again, this is probably one where the accused wants to go judge alone. He ‘did the thing’ and was detained on scene by witnesses; any defence will be based on arguments about intent, and whether he had the mental competence to be criminally responsible. Establishing the facts will be extremely easy. This will be a Mens Rea trial, the fact that he was on a day pass from psychiatric care and had a mental health call with police a day prior will be a lot for the judge to chew on.

I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s found NCR and committed to secure psychiatric care.

I'm not so sure that he will be successful with NCR. I absolutely admit that I have limited experience (1x murder trial where I was the AO for 8 weeks), but the Crown experts clearly laid out the criteria for NCR - they must be incapable of controlling their actions, unaware of what they were doing, and unable to know that their actions were wrong. Basically, if you hear voices telling you to stab somebody because they're Satan, but you know that it is wrong to kill people, you're still responsible. Apparently, only about 2% of NCR-based defence attempts are accepted. If this person knew that his actions could hurt or kill people, and that it was wrong to do so, they're not going to succeed.

If a person is found NCR, the result is often worse than prison - as an example, Brockville's psych ward where a number of NCR folks are held is frightening - the other patients in there are dangerously unpredictable and prone to sudden violence. The Prosecutors were telling me that a person is actually safer in prison. And, you stay in the psych ward until found competent - which may or may not ever happen. Prison sentences usually have an end date.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Given David Eby’s background as head of the BC Civil Liberties Association, and as Premier of a Province, he should bloody well know better than to wade into commenting like he did on an open murder investigation- how ever obvious the facts are.

Maybe he figures the guy is a lock on getting declared NCR anyway, but if the dude walks because, in part, because of Eby’s comments, there will be hell to pay.

 

[Good2Golf]

If a person is found NCR, the result is often worse than prison - as an example, Brockville's psych ward where a number of NCR folks are held is frightening - the other patients in there are dangerously unpredictable and prone to sudden violence. The Prosecutors were telling me that a person is actually safer in prison. And, you stay in the psych ward until found competent - which may or may not ever happen. Prison sentences usually have an end date.

Carol de Delley, mother of Greyhound bus beheading victim Tim McLean, killed and desecrated at the hands of Vincent Weiguang Li (please call me ‘Will Baker’), might disagree with the NCR is worse than jail supposition…

Canada man who beheaded bus passenger granted freedom - BBC News

The man, who has schizophrenia, was found not criminally responsible for the 2008 attack.

www.bbc.com

Mr Baker was allowed last year to live in his own apartment in Winnipeg, Manitoba, but was still subject to monitoring to ensure he took his medication.

But his doctors told Manitoba's Criminal Code Review Board that he understood that he needed to take the medication and that he would continue with his treatment if released.

"The review board is of the opinion that the weight of evidence does not substantiate that Mr Baker poses a significant threat to the safety of the public," the review board said in a written decision.

You know…when you disallow consideration of his stabbing, beheading, removing organs and eating parts of the victim…he’s not a significant threat (again) to the public…

 

[lenaitch]

I'm not so sure that he will be successful with NCR. I absolutely admit that I have limited experience (1x murder trial where I was the AO for 8 weeks), but the Crown experts clearly laid out the criteria for NCR - they must be incapable of controlling their actions, unaware of what they were doing, and unable to know that their actions were wrong. Basically, if you hear voices telling you to stab somebody because they're Satan, but you know that it is wrong to kill people, you're still responsible. Apparently, only about 2% of NCR-based defence attempts are accepted. If this person knew that his actions could hurt or kill people, and that it was wrong to do so, they're not going to succeed.

If a person is found NCR, the result is often worse than prison - as an example, Brockville's psych ward where a number of NCR folks are held is frightening - the other patients in there are dangerously unpredictable and prone to sudden violence. The Prosecutors were telling me that a person is actually safer in prison. And, you stay in the psych ward until found competent - which may or may not ever happen. Prison sentences usually have an end date.

I had a homicide in 1979 where the accused was found 'not guilty by reason of insanity' (the pre-1992 legislation) and when I checked around 2002 just prior to my retirement he was still in a MH 'forensic unit'.

 

[OldSolduer]

Carol de Delley, mother of Greyhound bus beheading victim Tim McLean, killed and desecrated at the hands of Vincent Weiguang Li (please call me ‘Will Baker’), might disagree with the NCR is worse than jail supposition…

Canada man who beheaded bus passenger granted freedom - BBC News

The man, who has schizophrenia, was found not criminally responsible for the 2008 attack.

www.bbc.com

You know…when you disallow consideration of his stabbing, beheading, removing organs and eating parts of the victim…he’s not a significant threat (again) to the public…

I have some strong opinions on this one. Suffice it to say people that do this should be committed - permanently - to a secure psych facility.

He's not "Cured" - he's medicated.

 

[daftandbarmy]

B.C. marking day of mourning for victims of Lapu-Lapu Day festival tragedy​

CBC News will livestream a memorial mass at Holy Rosary Cathedral on Friday afternoon​

Events are taking place across British Columbia to remember those who died in the Lapu-Lapu Day festival tragedy in East Vancouver on Saturday evening.

The B.C. government has declared Friday an official day of remembrance and mourning for the victims of the tragedy, which saw 11 people killed and dozens more injured when the driver of an SUV rammed into the crowd at a Filipino street festival.

Community groups, in particular the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Vancouver, have plans to mark the occasion.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/bc-lapu-lapu-day-festival-day-of-mourning-1.7524570?cmp=newsletter_CBC%20British%20Columbia_1633_1908498

 

[GK .Dundas]

I had a homicide in 1979 where the accused was found 'not guilty by reason of insanity' (the pre-1992 legislation) and when I checked around 2002 just prior to my retirement he was still in a MH 'forensic unit'.

As I recall aren't they're several US States that have a finding of guilty but insane ?

.

 

[lenaitch]

As I recall aren't they're several US States that have a finding of guilty but insane ?

.

Could be. No clue.

A bit of a discussion here, (in relation to grounds for defence, not verdicts) including:

A few states do not allow the insanity defense against criminal charges, including Idaho, Kansas, Montana, and Utah. In 2020, the United States Supreme Court rejected a challenge to Kansas’ decision to abolish the insanity defense.

 

[OldSolduer]

I had a homicide in 1979 where the accused was found 'not guilty by reason of insanity' (the pre-1992 legislation) and when I checked around 2002 just prior to my retirement he was still in a MH 'forensic unit'.

When I first started we had at least one in on a "Lt Governors' Warrant" IIRC. He could be detained indefinitely.

 

[GK .Dundas]

When I first started we had at least one in on a "Lt Governors' Warrant" IIRC. He could be detained indefinitely.

As I recall the exact phrasing was something to the effect of " Detained at Her /His Majesty's Pleasure."

 

[Maxman1]

What is more humane?

Letting the mentally ill who cannot care for themselves live under bridges and in tents?

Or safely housing them and ensuring they get the care they need?

Jail is not the answer. We’re not trained nor equipped for them.

Sorry to digress.

It's downright baffling that anyone could consider "just set them loose to fend for themselves" to be "humane".

 

[Maxman1]

Sorry for the digression - there was a serial killer who was released on a day pass unescorted. First thing he did? He murdered some one.

 

[OldSolduer]

It's downright baffling that anyone could consider "just set them loose to fend for themselves" to be "humane".

Yes. I agree.

Bit there are some very naive people in this country who have zero experience with severe mental illnesses making the calls.