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A Black Mark

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Not too sure about the military system, but in criminal law, a stay or withdrawl of a charge can be as a  result of a plea bargin.  Did he plead guilty?  If so, he probably plead to the charge that couldn't get him fired.  As previously pointed out, the 130 is the military tie in to a CCC charge, and as such, since the CCC has no dishonourable discharge provisions, that is not a penalty that can be handed out.  They toss the 129, and NAMBLA-boy gets to keep his job.  I had kind of hoped that sort of crap only happened in my world (although it doesn't impress me here either). 
What I don't get is why not make him serve his 10 days?  How bad can it be?  Or why take a plea agreement, unless the case was screwed up somehow. 
Now you too can refer to it as a legal system, not a justice system.
 
From "Military Justice at the Summary Trial Level", 14 Sep 2001

Alternative Charges

153.    When offences have been charged in the alternative, an accused can only be found guilty of one offence.  the presiding officer shal pronounce a finding on the alternative charge in respect of which the accused was found guilty and  direct that the proceedings be stayed on the other charge.

(Footnoted reference to QR&O 108.20 (9)
 
deh said:
Wrong.

The second charge was offered as an alternate to the first.  Meaning the court could try him on the catch all 129 if there was not enough evidence to support the primary charge, as the requirement to prove conduct prejudice to the good order and discipline is much easier to meet.  This has nothing to do with appeals.  Since he was found guilty on the first there is no need to try him on the alternate, simple enough?  Stop spouting off like you know what you are on about and put down the book until someone shows you how to use what is written inside.  Haven't you already been called out about this sort of thing?

Up the Guards!

This is the correct interpretation.  The other *stuff* with respect to  appeals is an entirely different area of law regarding stays pending appeals.

I second the call for people to watch what they say when they have no expertise on the subject matter.
 
Armymatters said:
Whoops...

Whoops! is right.  Right outside of your Lanes.  I hope you have learned something from the replies correcting your assumptions.
 
Trinity said:
Porn is porn..  and will always be?  Wow.. so informative.
So I guess porn with animals, bondage, gay porn, is.. well porn
and will always be (with your blanket statement)

I doubt you've even read or at least taken time to digest
the rest of the posts in this thread.



Capitol crime?  Try Federal or Criminal Code of Canada
Talk about your blanket statements. Don't put words into my post that arent there, chachi. I read enough posts in this thread to see how some people will debate the absurd and defend a shitheads rights.I was merely dropping my 2 cents, I have already made up my mind about the topic and don't have any regrets about it. I don't care if somebody thinks I am not "digesting" or reading enough posts to understand.

OUT
 
kerfuffled said:
Talk about your blanket statements. Don't put words into my post that arent there, chachi. I read enough posts in this thread to see how some people will debate the absurd and defend a shitheads rights.I was merely dropping my 2 cents, I have already made up my mind about the topic and don't have any regrets about it. I don't care if somebody thinks I am not "digesting" or reading enough posts to understand.

OUT

So I says Pardon???   Did you really just call a Padre Chachi? Oh my... :eek:

Cry Havock and let slip the dog's or war  ;D
 
kerfuffled said:
Talk about your blanket statements. Don't put words into my post that arent there, chachi. I read enough posts in this thread to see how some people will debate the absurd and defend a shitheads rights.I was merely dropping my 2 cents, I have already made up my mind about the topic and don't have any regrets about it. I don't care if somebody thinks I am not "digesting" or reading enough posts to understand.

OUT

Wow.

Instead of clarifying your "blanket" statement that I called into question you avoided doing that through profanity and insults.

Your three posts here have been very interesting.  I don't need to retaliate through insults, threats, or profanity because people
here know who I am, respect my view (even if its opposite). If you can't answer what "porn is porn" or wish to leave it vague,
then i have every right to interpret what you meant if you fail to make it clear.

I honestly can't wait for your response because I know it will be childish and insulting, only furthering to serve your true nature
to the site.  I wish you best of luck trying to reach 100 posts as most people who come off as strong as you (kid recruit or armyboi) don't
last too long around here.

God Bless

Trinity

 
Wow this is getting a little off the mark me thinks.

No one was saying this guy didn't deserve much more than he got. I think we all agree he got off light and this is a travesty.

What was being said further is that we are enabling people to do this crap at work by giving them the opportunity to have unrestricted access to the Internet. Why do people need that? How many in the CF really need that to do their work? How did we ever get along without it before we had it?

Further I am saying that Pornography is an addictive or potentially addictive activity. This consenting adults stuff is a red herring I'm afraid. There are lots of things that consenting adults do that many of us don't want to see or hear about because "society" deems them to be harmful and destructive to our common good and well being.

As people who are supposed to be serving with honour perhaps we should ask ourselves if pornography (I include in that word exploitation of any sort not just sex...exploitation of violence is pornography too) of any sort is a noble and virtuous thing for a society to allow? Should the RMC cadets who filmed each other having sex and distributing it on the net have been disciplined or told that all that stuff is OK because they are consenting adults?

Now that the Internet is so available this stuff is available to impressionable children and yes....perverts of all sorts.
 
In Hoc, I think you are trying to put a Genie (sp?) back in a bottle.  The internet, for good or for bad, is not going anywhere.  IMO this explosion of instant information will have a cultural impact that won't be recognized for what it was for generations, and only with hindsight will it be determined if we got too much of a good thing too fast for our culture to handle. 
Just as an aside, would it not be better to provide the ability to access these things on a government monitored computer?  In that way, the child molesters can be routed out quicker, since there is no expectation of privacy on a work computer, thus no Charter of Rights issues for seizing it and examining it's contents. 
Give people enough rope, and they will make macrame hanging baskets.  Or something like that.
 
zipperhead_cop said:
In Hoc, I think you are trying to put a Genie (sp?) back in a bottle.  The internet, for good or for bad, is not going anywhere.  IMO this explosion of instant information will have a cultural impact that won't be recognized for what it was for generations, and only with hindsight will it be determined if we got too much of a good thing too fast for our culture to handle. 
Just as an aside, would it not be better to provide the ability to access these things on a government monitored computer?  In that way, the child molesters can be routed out quicker, since there is no expectation of privacy on a work computer, thus no Charter of Rights issues for seizing it and examining it's contents. 
Give people enough rope, and they will make macrame hanging baskets.  Or something like that.

Well yes you are right it is a genie out of the bottle thing. The Internet is young and it could be policed a lot better I think. Maybe we need more police resources for that...I don't know.

Let's face it it's not only sex that is on the net....who wants to watch peopel being snuffed? that's pretty sick too....Jihad folks in Iraq are getting that stuff on the net.
Bomb making....do we want young teens to know how to make a bomb?

I love the fact that I can find out stuff and communicate better with my family and find good research for work and sermons and stuff but there is a huge dark side to this too!
I've had a lot of cases in my office of folks who are hooking up with people on the net while spouses are away or not paying attention and it's effecting a lot of relationships. I just shake my head sometimes.

I think you're right the implications of this explosion in technology is huge and has a lot of implications for our world.
 
Maybe you should start a thread split about technology and the Mark of the Beast.  Seems there are a few things in Daniel and Revelations that are applicable.
[/hijack]
 
zipperhead_cop said:
Maybe you should start a thread split about technology and the Mark of the Beast.  Seems there are a few things in Daniel and Revelations that are applicable.
[/hijack]

Yeah I'm not saying that it's the end of the world I'm just saying that there is a dark side to this stuff that is somewhat troubling. Do we say "Oh there's nothing we can do about it?" and leave it at that.

The police are starting to do a good job cracking down on some of this stuff and catching perverts who lure kids on line etc. They are starting to get serious about catching the kiddie pornographers too. So it's not like the net is impossible to police.
Our security people have great tools for tracking people who misuse our intranet.

Technology is great and I'm not railing against it. I'm just saying that maybe we need to question what kinds of things we as a society and a world are not going to sit still for in the use of technology...and how are we going to enforce it?
 
:-[after reading all these threads, viewing the news articles,  talking to family, etc about this person.  Firstly you should know that I  do not agree with any kind of child pornography at all, nor do I make excuses for it...   We should all know the whole facts about this incident before we throw the stone and get the tar out!!!!. Firstly, it was not kiddie Porn he was looking at , in fact it was actually adults,young girls,,( over the age of 19)  in diapers, with bibs etc.. but the law states that any one accessing the internet and using young girls, and such words that specify child articles is known as child pornography.  Secondly, not only does this mcpl have an outstanding career record in the military, but also within his families community.  He has lots of nieces and nephews that he loves and would be trusted around them.  Please don't judge  the mcpl because he has to judge himself each and every day.   He has paid his price in his career and in his community.  He has suffered more than anyone would ever know.  He has lost respect of his co-workers but gained love from his family and true friends.  He has lived a hard life through his family history( violence and death) in the  best way he can and has came out a stronger and a brave person. Not making excuses for mcpl but just seeing the other side. For those of you whom live in Glass Houses please dont throw the stones!!!!! We are all human and make mistakes, unfortunately, the news media made an example out of this ex-ordinary person.   To you from me....
 
Considering what each and every member of the CF does each and everyday is always under the scrutinity of the media and public, you will have to excuse the lack of compassion this individual is getting. He knew what the consequences would be should he got caught and he knew how badly it would reflect on the CF and each member serving and retired. He brings shame on us all. I have nothing but contempt for people like this. So spare us the moral platitudes as this guy does not deserve it.
 
Rosie67

Thank you for resurrecting a Topic that was discussed in the past, and was left well in the past.  Thank you for bringing it back into the "Limelight".  If you were so concerned about this member's health, reputation, and job security, perhaps you should have not brought it up and attracted more attention to it, but rather allowed the healing to start.  You have just made another 'wound' in this families mental health.

Again.

Thank you.
 
Rosie67 said:
:-[after reading all these threads, viewing the news articles,  talking to family, etc about this person.  Firstly you should know that I  do not agree with any kind of child pornography at all, nor do I make excuses for it...   We should all know the whole facts about this incident before we throw the stone and get the tar out!!!!. Firstly, it was not kiddie Porn he was looking at , in fact it was actually adults,young girls,,( over the age of 19)  in diapers, with bibs etc.. but the law states that any one accessing the internet and using young girls, and such words that specify child articles is known as child pornography.  Secondly, not only does this mcpl have an outstanding career record in the military, but also within his families community.  He has lots of nieces and nephews that he loves and would be trusted around them.  Please don't judge  the mcpl because he has to judge himself each and every day.   He has paid his price in his career and in his community.  He has suffered more than anyone would ever know.  He has lost respect of his co-workers but gained love from his family and true friends.  He has lived a hard life through his family history( violence and death) in the  best way he can and has came out a stronger and a brave person. Not making excuses for mcpl but just seeing the other side. For those of you whom live in Glass Houses please dont throw the stones!!!!! We are all human and make mistakes, unfortunately, the news media made an example out of this ex-ordinary person.   To you from me....

First off, what you are referring to is the fetish avenue often called "adult babies".  IMO it is pretty creepy, and any man that wants to be diapered, soil himself and breast feed from an actual lactating woman still is not a credible bet to be around my kids. 
Second, you cannot get a conviction for being in possession of child pornography in the absence of child pornography.  If you had read the whole thread, I made the point that only the most obvious example of child porn are brought forward as evidence, and the sad guideline is if the subject clearly looks younger than 12 years old.  A 21 year old model with pigtails and a soother obviously would not constitute child porn.  I am pretty sure you never saw the case file, unless you happen to be one of the investigating officers, defense counsel or a prosecutor. 
Since you appear to know this individual, or actually are the individual, then you would understand why someone might "spin" a story to gain support.  Obviously he can't say there was nothing on the computer.  However, that is a good story to put forward to minimize the culpability and potentially elicit some support from people who would like to hold a torch out, but just can't extend an olive branch to a kiddy diddler.  Let me guess, stop me if you have heard this one: "I wasn't the only one that used that computer, and I took a hit for another guy", "my lawyer said they would drag this out forever and cost me everything I have so they would get me no matter what", "the computer was second hand, and they found a bunch of stuff from the previous owner", "I was up for promotion and they were downloading that stuff when I was on lunch/PT to take me out of the competition".  Did you know that there are whole chat forums and support groups for child mollesters, including how to hide/scrub your hard drives, stories to tell your families if you get caught and methods of grooming children to be receptive to early sexual contact? 
No doubt he had a good career.  Lots of sick individuals are able to be very successful at their jobs.  There are sociopaths among us that excel at what they do. 
As far as the price he has paid?  Loss of face?  Shunned by the military family he rejected?  BOO F*CKING HOO.  What about the price the little exploited child sex slaves pay for entertaining sick dogs that get off on this stuff?  At 14, they are burned out shells of humanity with completely skewed values and ideas as to what constitutes love and sexuality.  Pretty much guaranteed teen prostitution, and death with a needle dangling in an alley. 
But by all means, next pic nic you all have together send your kids on a "nature walk" alone with Master Corporal AB, since he is such a solid guy. 
Denial is a warm, comforting blanket sometimes.  I hope the cost of your personal comfort doesn't hurt someone around you.
 
I feel stupider and dirtier for reading this thread...

I'd rather he just have been slow marched out back and shot.
 
I agree I-6.  Probably a good thing we arent in Law enforcement.  Anyway, Zipperhead_cop is much more articulate than you and I even though I sense he may feel as we do.
 
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