A Boot Problem

[Humphrey Bogart]

So I am having problems right now with the CF supply system

I had two pairs of boots, both of which had the left footed pair blowout on me a week apart from each other, they are shot I tried taking them to a shoe repair and he said it would do no good, as they had been wet after heavy field use and they dried out.  The only problem is I went to supply to get them changed, and well it takes 3 TO 6 MONTHS TO GET A NEW PAIR

So right now I have two pairs of boots both of which I can't wear because my toe pops out the end of them, and it takes supposedly 3 months to get a new pair

Anyone got any ideas... worst part is I am going on a course in a months time, and well you kind of need a good pair of boots for this course and I really don't wanna have to wear my SWAT's as they are garbage

 

[George Wallace]

Something doesn't sound right here.  3 months?  What type of boot, and more important, what size?  Unless you have an extra large or extra small foot, I can not see ther being a 3 month timeframe to get boots.  You're at a Training Base so there should be a good supply of the regular sizes.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

The boots I had busted were the old Mark III's 10.5E was my size

I wanted to exchange them for the new General Purpose boots,

I was told they no longer keep most sizes in stock, they simply size you and order the boots from a warehouse in Montreal
They told me it would take anywhere from 6 to 12 weeks for them to get them

I don't know if they were just trying to pull a fast one on me but your right it doesn't sound quite right

They also have like a 100 different sizes now as well to account for all different types of feet.  They have a wall full of sizes and you get one that's an exact proper size for your foot.

 

[PMedMoe]

Nope, that's what it's like in Kingston too.  You get sized and then they order your boots.

As far as "exact proper size", I'll keep my comments to myself. 

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Nope, that's what it's like in Kingston too.  You get sized and then they order your boots.

As far as "exact proper size", I'll keep my comments to myself. 

haha; well in theory anyways  ;D

I guess the new system doesn't account for soldiers blowing out both sets of boots they own in a one week span

 

[PMedMoe]

I guess the new system doesn't account for soldiers blowing out both sets of boots they own in a one week span

Well, you have to admit, that must be a rare occurrence.

 

[George Wallace]

Crap!  I forgot how long it took to get my GP boots.  Sorry.  I had/have my Mk III's and a large collection of other boots to keep me from facing the same problem........(You'll understand after a few years when your collection of GP, WW, desert, jungle, etc. boots start piling up in your closet/locker/basement..... ;D )

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Crap!  I forgot how long it took to get my GP boots.  Sorry.  I had/have my Mk III's and a large collection of other boots to keep me from facing the same problem........(You'll understand after a few years when your collection of GP, WW, desert, jungle, etc. boots start piling up in your closet/locker/basement..... ;D )

Yes it is a rare occurrence, Luckily my course; which starts in a month, is in wet and soggy gagetown, and a good portion of it will be field time so jungle boots it is

 

[George Wallace]

Jungle Boots will not give you the ankle support you will require for that course. 

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Well, no not the issued ones but these other boots I have will, http://www.uspatriottactical.com/rocky-s2v-black-boots-20.html

I am disappointed I can't get an issued pair of boots as I have never had any problems with them, my mark III's were awesome and I loved them, but until my supply issue gets sorted out I am gonna have to find my own means I guess.  The good thing is I got the Rock S2V basically for free and they feel like a mercedes benz on my feet, we shall see how they hold up.

 

[vonGarvin]

For any course in Gagetown (I assume infantry, given your avatar), you will need issue boots as an absolute requirement.  How to get them?  Search me.


As with others, I have around 10 pairs of boots (2 x Cold Wet Weather, 2 x Interim, and π Mk III, etc

 

[Snaketnk]

The only other suggestion I can give you is to bring 'em to the shoe repair place at the Regent Mall and see what they can do for you.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

For any course in Gagetown (I assume infantry, given your avatar), you will need issue boots as an absolute requirement.  How to get them?  Search me.


As with others, I have around 10 pairs of boots (2 x Cold Wet Weather, 2 x Interim, and π Mk III, etc

Roger that, I am slated for LAV III CC followed by DP 1.2, I might just go down to the surplus store here in kingston and get a used pair of Mk III's to hold me over until I can get some new issued boots

 

[armyvern]

The only other suggestion I can give you is to bring 'em to the shoe repair place at the Regent Mall and see what they can do for you.

I'd go one step further than that:

I'd go back to clothing stores and speak with the supervisor.

Advise the supervisor of your course start dates and "the systems inability to issue you footwear that fit." Even IF the depot is out of stock of his sized footwear ... the "SYSTEM" (Ie clothing stores) has a DUTY to find and provide him fitting and serviceable footwear. footwear so that he can perform his duties.

In no national stock, the IC CSG should be contacting the Supply Manager in Ottawa with a note of the following:

"This A12 345 678 member is proceeding on course and is required to be issued 2 X footwear IAW his entitlement. Currently, there is nil national stock and RDD is forecasted for 3 months from now. Member currently has ZERO serviceable footwear. As footwear is a nationally managed item, please provide me with a national fin coding immediately so that I can procure this member 2 pairs of footwear as per his entitlement on an LPO basis so that he can perform his duties."

Just saying ...

 

[tabernac]

I'd go one step further than that:

I'd go back to clothing stores and speak with the supervisor.

Advise the supervisor of your course start dates and "the systems inability to issue you footwear that fit." Even IF the depot is out of stock of his sized footwear ... the "SYSTEM" (Ie clothing stores) has a DUTY to find and provide him fitting and serviceable footwear. footwear so that he can perform his duties.

In no national stock, the IC CSG should be contacting the Supply Manager in Ottawa with a note of the following:

"This A12 345 678 member is proceeding on course and is required to be issued 2 X footwear IAW his entitlement. Currently, there is nil national stock and RDD is forecasted for 3 months from now. Member currently has ZERO serviceable footwear. As footwear is a nationally managed item, please provide me with a national fin coding immediately so that I can procure this member 2 pairs of footwear as per his entitlement on an LPO basis so that he can perform his duties."

I just recently got a chit from Physio saying that I need custom footwear. When I was at clothing stores the civvie behind the counter told me that the people who make the foot molds wouldn't be coming in for another 4 weeks, and that it would take another 6 weeks for the custom GPs to be made. The problem is I go on course at the end of May, and I wouldn't have the custom boots until late June, early July. Until I get my custom boots all I have to wear are the Mk IIIs I picked up at a surplus store.

Do I have a case for LPO'd boots in the interim?

 

[armyvern]

I just recently got a chit from Physio saying that I need custom footwear. When I was at clothing stores the civvie behind the counter told me that the people who make the foot molds wouldn't be coming in for another 4 weeks, and that it would take another 6 weeks for the custom GPs to be made. The problem is I go on course at the end of May, and I wouldn't have the custom boots until late June, early July. Until I get my custom boots all I have to wear are the Mk IIIs I picked up at a surplus store.

Do I have a case for LPO'd boots in the interim?

Absolutely you have a case for LPOd footwear that FITS and that WORKS. Explain to clothing stores that your course starts BEFORE the customs will be done, and ergo you need them to LPO you footwear that is suitable and that you can have in time for your course. Take a copy of your course loading message with you. Your joining instructions for the course too - as they will clearly state that you are to report for your course "with all entitled items as per CFSD01-301 Land Force Operational Clothing & Equipment Scale" of entitled items; that means 2 pairs of suitable boots because that is what you are entitled to.

As a side note, pers are to ensure that they are issued their kit PRIOR to proceeding to another location on course. The gaining base for a course candidate is under no obligation to procure footwear for members whose home base failed to look after them. Throw Supply's own Supply Manual right back at them and make them do their jobs. I am so tired of troops getting screwed around and waiting forever for their Clothing Stores to look after them as is called for in the Supply Manual. 

It is their job to get you footwear ASAP. Delaying for customs is not on when all they have to do is LPO you boots that work and fit.

Tomorrow, at work, I will pull you the ref and paste it; take a copy of that with you too. If you don't get satisfaction at the counter - ask for the supervisor ... politely. If that fails to see any action, have your supervisor contact that supervisor ... then that supervisors supervisor etc.

 

[armyvern]

Ref: CFSM 3-13G-003

Measuring and fitting of footwear
11.  This book details the responsibility of supply officers and the procedures to be followed at B/W/S to ensure that all personnel are issued with correctly measured and fitted footwear and clothing.

12.  It is the responsibility of the B/W/S Sup O to ensure that the correct size footwear is issued to all personnel. Improperly fitted footwear affects the general well being of an individual, often to such an extent as to impair health, morale and efficiency. It is, therefore, of the utmost importance that individuals wear footwear for which they have been measured and properly fitted.

13.  Each individual shall be measured using Scholls, Ritz or Korrecto foot-measuring devices. The instructions for use are found on the reverse side of the device. Both feet must be measured, and the longer foot shall take precedence in determining size.

14.  When measured IAW the above paragraph, the individual shape of the foot, which affects comfort, is not taken into account, therefore, a test for overall fit of the selected size of footwear is necessary.

15.  After a size has been determined by means of the foot-measuring device, a fitting test shall be made on both feet, ensuring that, when fitting boots, combat, GS Mk 111 (modified), the saran mesh insoles are the correct size and in place with the nylon layer next to the foot. It shall be ensured that individuals:

are wearing the type of hose which complies with regulations for the type of footwear being fitted are standing erect for combat boots have their weight evenly distributed on both feet, have their heels well back in the footwear, with the footwear fully laced up who normally wear arch supports or other orthopaedic aids are wearing these appliances at the time of fitting.

16.  The following four tests are performed when checking the fit of all types of military boots and shoes:

Test 1 - Snug fit under the arch is determined by grasping both shoes over the instep with the thumbs on the outside and the fingers pressing firmly against the under arch, close to the outer soles on the inner side of the shoes. The leather should lie snugly against the under arch and should be free from excessive wrinkles and fullness.

Test 2 - Proper position of the ball joint is determined by locating the ball joint with the thumb of each hand. The ball joint should lie approximately in the widest portion of the shoe, just ahead of the area where the sole curves into the shank under the arch.

Test 3 - placing a thumb low on either side of the vamp, at the widest part of the shoe, and gradually working each thumb slowly upwards towards the centre until the thumbs nearly meet determine proper width across the ball of the shoe. The foot without apparent tightness or excessive fullness should fill the shoe. Each shoe must be checked separately for width.

Test 4 - Proper length is determined by pressing each shoe at the toe with both thumbs. The proper length of footwear manufactured with hard box toes shall be determined by the position of the ball of the foot in relation to the ball of the shoe and the foot under the arch. Toe room in boots or shoes not having hard box toes may be determined by having the person being fitted move his toes while the fitter feels the upper area of the shoe or boot to determine the amount of free space. There should be a clearance or space of approximately one-half inch between the end of the longest toe and the end of the shoe. Each shoe must be tested separately for length.

17.  If fitting indicates that an individual’s foot size is not within the range of standard catalogue footwear sizes, the individual is provided with locally purchased special size footwear IAW Special size footwear.

3-13G-002. Special size personal allotment clothing, footwear and orthopaedic furniture
4.  Special size clothing:

Except for those non-stocked items, which are normally issued as made-to-measure, every effort shall be made to equip personnel from standard or peripheral stock sizes. This includes carrying out minor alterations and adjustments to obtain a reasonable fit. Because of the tolerances allowed in the production of garments, attempts should be made to fit personnel before resorting to Special Clothing Size Roll procedures.

Personnel who cannot be equipped with standard or peripheral size garments are entitled to the issue of special size items for actual requirements, not exceeding the quantity authorized by the applicable EGC.

When uniforms or other articles of clothing require special procurement. For example, a size not stocked at any level, B/W/S Sup O shall confirm all requests prior to initiating procurement action. Prices are obtained from local manufacturers and procurement action is taken IAW DAOD 3004. Bases, stations, and wings fund special size requirements from Command allotments. If an individual is undergoing training at a unit other than his home unit, funding for special size clothing, footwear, and equipment should be requested from the individual’s home unit.

Under no circumstances shall personnel be permitted to provide materiel for manufacture of special size clothing. The base/station/wing requisition materiel in the normal manner if available from the system, it must be ordered from Logistik Unicorp after obtaining a valid stock number from the C3-01 Coordinator. Uniform specifications must also be obtained from Director Soldier Systems Program Management (DSSPM C3-01 Contract Coordinator) and obtain uniform specifications from Director Soldier Systems Program Management (DSSPM C3 Contract Coordinator) for guidance to manufacturers. The supply of materiel and specifications to the manufacturer from the system ensures a high standard of uniformity in dress. Normally, special size clothing shall not be ordered for individuals during their last six months of service.

To obtain special size clothing, form DND 2160 (21-883-2991), Special Clothing Size Roll (men) or form DND 2159 (21-870-7580), Special Clothing Size Roll (women), as applicable, shall be prepared in 3 copies with distribution as follows:

i.  Two copies to manufacturer
ii. One copy to be filed in individuals CF 892

Note: Manufacturers may elect to use their own sizing forms. In this case, sufficient copies are obtained to meet distribution requirements. Where there is a major discrepancy between the garment and the size roll, the following standardized procedure is implemented:

i. The unit tailor or qualified service personnel measure the individual, check the size roll for correctness, chalk mark the garment where incorrect and detail the alterations required for a proper fit.
ii. The contractor verifies the discrepancies between the garment and size roll and if it cannot be satisfactorily altered, the contractor is requested to manufacture a new garment.
iii. Invoices are held pending receipt of a satisfactory garment.

Where garments are received and rejected for reasons other than a contractor’s deficiency, disposal action is to be initiated. A new order shall be initiated to satisfy the individual.

When a contractor is not available in the vicinity of the base/station/wing, orders are placed directly to the nearest available manufacturer. B/W/S Sup O shall ensure that only unit civilian tailors or qualified service personnel measure individuals for special size clothing using the guidelines detailed. These measurements must be typed or legibly written on the Special Size Roll. Districts carry out minor alterations upon receipt to ensure a satisfactory fit. However, where there is an obvious discrepancy between the garment and the size roll, items are returned collect to the manufacturer accompanied by a letter detailing the reason for return.

When special size clothing is ordered for an individual MSO014 Supply Customer Maintenance shall be used to annotate the member’s IA (special instructions) with the special size requirements. Item(s) should be brought on charge using special size NSN for that particular garment.

Except in the case of an occupational transfer, special size roll public clothing issued to an individual shall not be withdrawn when the employment justifying its issue ceases; the individual retains that clothing, if serviceable, during his period of service.

5.  Special size footwear:

The following definitions are provided for the purpose of this article:

Orthoses: Is an orthopaedic appliance or apparatus used to support, align, prevent or correct deformities or to improve function of moveable parts of the body. One common example is a custom foot insole. 

Orthopaedic Footwear: Is custom footwear required by individuals with deformed or surgically treated feet. This includes custom-made military pattern footwear, and internal or external modifications to military and civilian footwear. Orthopaedic footwear is funded by the Command Surgeon.

If after being fitted IAW Measuring and fitting of footwear (3-13G-003) an individual is found to have a foot size, which does not fall within the range of standard catalogue footwear sizes and does not require orthopaedic footwear, the individual will be provided with special size footwear. B/W/S are responsible to fund these requirements through their Command allotments. All special size boots are free issue to all Regular and Reserve force members. Supply sections shall ensure the member receives footwear that fits properly and that meets performance and quality standards equivalent to the authorized CF footwear to which the member is entitled as defined in the applicable scales of issue. Special size safety footwear must meet the safety standards of the regulation footwear. Supply sections are under no obligation to procure brand name footwear. The procedures for Special size shoes/oxfords is covered at para 7.

Athletic Shoes will only be issued to recruits on a one time basis and will not be exchangeable or available for purchase.  CF members Regular and Reserve force are responsible for the purchase of athletic shoes upon completion of recruit training.  The only exception would be for a member who has suffered a CF related injury or has surgically treated feet and requires a custom build athletic shoe.  In these rare cases the athletic shoe would be purchased by supply and funded by the Command Surgeon.

Note:  Class “A” Reservists shall only be issued one pair of Special Size Boots or Oxfords/Shoes as applicable. For example if an individual is entitled to one pair of shoes and two pair of boots the individual shall be issued one pair of shoes and one pair of boots. If the individual is converted to “B” or “C” class they shall be issued their full entitlement.

When special size footwear is ordered for an individual Supply Customer Maintenance MSO014 shall be used to annotate the member’s IA (special instructions) with the special size requirements. Item(s) should be brought on charge using the stock code of the closest size, taking caution to ensure that the total quantity (comprised of current balance, dues-in and special size items) does not exceed the district ROP/ROQ, which in turn could result in redistribution. Each time the individual requires footwear; the IA shall be checked to ascertain when the item was previously issued. Normally, special size footwear shall not be ordered for individuals during their last six months of service.

Special size footwear issued to an individual shall not be withdrawn when the employment justifying its issue ceases. The individual retains the footwear during his entire period of service.

6.  Orthopaedic and modified footwear:

When recommended by a medical board or specialist, individuals with deformed or surgically treated feet shall be provided with specially made or modified footwear in lieu of regulation boots and shoes.

Orthopaedic footwear shall be obtained through a Federal, Provincial or local orthopaedic and prosthetic facility IAW MSI 7000-011 Footwear requiring modification shall be altered as required by the same orthopaedic facility or by local procurement when authorized by the base medical officer, at no expense to the individual.

Special Size Orthopaedic boots and modification to boots are always at no cost to the member.  Special Size Orthopaedic Boots shall be brought on charge by CRV and entered on the individual’s IA.  Only the initial issue of Orthopaedic shoes/oxfords are free issue, procedures are detailed in para 7 of this article. 

Normally orthopaedic footwear shall not be ordered for individuals during their last six months of service.

Orthopaedic footwear obtained as per MSI 7000-011 is paid for by the appropriate Command Surgeon.