A Deeply Fractured US

[brihard]

I have no interest in ‘getting along’ with advocates of racial segregation, nor their apologists. That’s an ethical line I have no reason to cross. We’re not talking about some esoteric academic debate. We’re talking about someone who goes on some broadcast program, is openly racist, and who is advocating for white people to segregate themselves from blacks. That’s not a defensible stance and I won’t hand-wring over it.

 

[MJP]

I have no interest in ‘getting along’ with advocates of racial segregation, nor their apologists. That’s an ethical line I have no reason to cross. We’re not talking about some esoteric academic debate. We’re talking about someone who goes on some broadcast program, is openly racist, and who is advocating for white people to segregate themselves from blacks. That’s not a defensible stance and I won’t hand-wrong over it.

Exactly normalizing that sort of crap is slippery slope. Next thing you know folks accepting folks that are parading around with tiki torches and Nazi symbols

 

[KevinB]

I have no interest in ‘getting along’ with advocates of racial segregation, nor their apologists. That’s an ethical line I have no reason to cross. We’re not talking about some esoteric academic debate. We’re talking about someone who goes on some broadcast program, is openly racist, and who is advocating for white people to segregate themselves from blacks. That’s not a defensible stance and I won’t hand-wring over it.

I don't disagree with you - my comment was more about why some people feel there is a need to create divisions along any lines at all.

 

[Navy_Pete]

I don't disagree with you - my comment was more about why some people feel there is a need to create divisions along any lines at all.

I guess as long as people get pulled over while minding their own business, aren't getting jobs they are qualified for etc it'll be the reality for a lot of people.

The fact that 'the talk' means something totally different depending on your skin colour is indicative of how widespread it is.

I don't feel guilty about anything I've worked for, but at the same time think that my norm should be everyone's. If you are winning the race when other people are somehow handicapped it's not really merit based anymore.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Impossible to get worked up about racial segregation when it is accepted in Canada. As a matter of policy and law, we have institutional systemic racial segregation which promotes division between aboriginal and non-aboriginal people, and aboriginal and non-aboriginal communities, primarily on the basis of inheritance. There is even division between aboriginals. The consequences have been detrimental, sometimes severely so. Those are facts not mitigated by any amount of "yes, but". If anyone has left or refused to take up federal employment in protest, it has happened so quietly as to go unnoticed.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

It's not exclusively a 'white' problem. There are more and more, university and college courses, gym use, social events, etc where whites are exclusively excluded. There are plenty of 'black supremist" people and organizations out there, (BLM) and they don't get called out. I'm tired of people and apologists that perpetuate the problem as an exclusively Caucasian manifestation. Racism and supremist attitude are not exclusive to whiteness.

 

[daftandbarmy]

It's not exclusively a 'white' problem. There are more and more, university and college courses, gym use, social events, etc where whites are exclusively excluded. There are plenty of 'black supremist" people and organizations out there, (BLM) and they don't get called out. I'm tired of people and apologists that perpetuate the problem as an exclusively Caucasian manifestation. Racism and supremist attitude are not exclusive to whiteness.

Mainly, the divisions become apparent when flogged around social, and other, media.

In person, day to day? Not so much...

 

[Navy_Pete]

@Fishbone Jones for sure, but most people like simple narratives while life is complex.

But I can simultaneously think what Israel and West bank Settlers is doing is wrong, while also thinking Hamas attacking Israelis is wrong, and that racial supremecists are generally bad, while still recognizing Canada and the US have hisotrically been built with white supremacy explicitly and the implicitly featured into the founding laws. None of those are mutually exclusive.

That's the problem with making things simple; it doesn't reflect real life. It has only gotten progressively worse with 15 second soundbites, then 140 character tweets etc as the form of communication, where things are boiled down to such simplistic terms it's effectively meaningless.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Lynching the Deplorables. Another step forward in closing the fracture...

 

[KevinB]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1633604224843120640

 

[Brad Sallows]

Of course, Canada and the European nations would have filled the void and saved Ukraine. There is no way that they too deep in their hearts would have been willing to sacrifice bits of Ukraine for the sake of mere peace and a comfortably heated winter. Trump stood alone in willing to do that. What a bastard.

 

[brihard]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1633604224843120640

It checks out that he would have sided with ‘surrender’. This must be the cunning plan he’s alluded to regarding how he would have promptly stopped the war.

 

[KevinB]

Of course, Canada and the European nations would have filled the void and saved Ukraine. There is no way that they too deep in their hearts would have been willing to sacrifice bits of Ukraine for the sake of mere peace and a comfortably heated winter. Trump stood alone in willing to do that. What a bastard.

Well I guess we can all be glad it didn't need to come to Trump having any say...

 

[brihard]

Well I guess we can all be glad it didn't need to come to Trump having any say...

Indeed. Given Zelenskyy’s rebuffing of Trump’s attempted extortion, safe to bet America would not have been in Ukraine’s corner had Biden lost the election. Ukraine’s continued existence likely owes itself to the outcome of the U.S. election.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Trump may be a person Ukraine ought to thank. Not long ago during a prior administration, Russia was a country the US could do business with and Ukraine was needing some strong pushes to clean up its act. Democratic opinion of Russia absolutely flipped over the perception that Russia interfered to Trump's benefit, and general opinion of Ukraine became more sympathetic after Trump's fishing expedition. It's improbable that these shifts had no effect whatsoever on current events. Obviously we can never really know by how much. It would be ironic if it were the wanted nail that shod the horse that seated the rider...

 

[Navy_Pete]

I think an unprovoked (second) invasion of the Ukraine full of targetting civilians, mass graves etc may have had something to do with changing the perception.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Sure. Countries around the world have never been able to resist paying even merely treasure in the face of aggression. I have always relied on the Republican establishment - including the neo-con sub-faction - to run to the sound of the guns, but never on Democrats. I am confident that if they still felt about Russians in 2022 as they did any time prior to 2016, they'd be dragging their heels at best and already out at worst - if indeed they ever decided to be in.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I have no interest in ‘getting along’ with advocates of racial segregation, nor their apologists. That’s an ethical line I have no reason to cross. We’re not talking about some esoteric academic debate. We’re talking about someone who goes on some broadcast program, is openly racist, and who is advocating for white people to segregate themselves from blacks. That’s not a defensible stance and I won’t hand-wring over it.

Louis Farrakhan, Al Sharpton and Cori Bush enter the chat.

 

[brihard]

Louis Farrakhan, Al Sharpton and Cori Bush enter the chat.

I wouldn’t have any time for them either, but do go on.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I wouldn’t have any time for them either, but do go on.

Wasn't putting any onus on you. Simply stating that this is not a one sided problem.