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A Deeply Fractured US

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Very much so and still lament the day that "progressive" was taken out of the name and spirit of the party. I still trend that way and am still searching for the herd among today's contenders that represents me best.

:unsure:
Posting this as it just came out.


It’s still in draft format but this is exactly the kind of policy framework I can get behind. I really hope they end up running candidates…
 
Except for the fact that the "left" is neither atheist nor agnostic. At least according to this survey:



So 65% of Democrats identify with the two main Christian religions and 72% of the Republicans. That's not a large enough difference to have any statistically significant meaning for any evaluation of the left or the right as a whole. Each side has its religious zealots and one could argue until the cows come home about the prattle of any one or another side's morons.

What you define as "clearly demonstrated" is purely subjective. Those who sit towards the extreme side of their own belief system tend to tar even the moderates on the other side as extremist simply because they sit so far from the centre. Extremist Republicans and "woke" Democrats even hound the more moderate members of their own parties. Neither the left nor the right has a monopoly on zealots and raving lunatics.

Those of us who occupy the centre--in my case the centre-right (fiscally conservative but socially liberal)--throw curses on the extremists of both intolerant houses.

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When I use Left in an American context I'm not talking about Democrats-at-large, I'm talking about away-from-center Leftists who mostly vote Democrat but also in significant proportions do not vote at all.

Now, I've heard the same arguments to depict Quebeccers as the most religious in Canada. That is a plainly ridiculous assertion to any Canadian who's lived both in and outside of Quebec. Identifying as a catholic does not make one a religious person. It's often just family heritage. Whether one effectively lives out or not that heritage is of greater importance.

I'd remind you also that the official state "religion" of the USSR and CCP was and is atheism. Manifestly, that did not prevent millions from falling in line and upholding two of the most tyrannical and nihilistic regimes in history.
 
Posting this as it just came out.


It’s still in draft format but this is exactly the kind of policy framework I can get behind. I really hope they end up running candidates…
I don’t. Under our current electoral system, it’s a recipe for Liberal governments forever. The CPC has to get serious if they want to govern.
 
I don’t. Under our current electoral system, it’s a recipe for Liberal governments forever. The CPC has to get serious if they want to govern.
My last word on this since it’s off topic and derailing the thread. The CIC is courting PC and Blue Liberals. Both main parties could bleed some votes and call it even but to be fair a new centrist party is unlikely to win a seat but garnering a good amount of the popular vote in some ridings might be the wake up call needed on team blue and team red. At the very least it’s a place to vote without feeling dirty.
 
Posting this as it just came out.


It’s still in draft format but this is exactly the kind of policy framework I can get behind. I really hope they end up running candidates…
Agree or am ambivalent toward with most everything except: "Reform the RCMP to serve as a domestic intelligence service; community policing should be left to the provinces and territories."

A lot of communities need RCMP because they are too small to have their own policy force and there's no provincial police force.
 
I don’t. Under our current electoral system, it’s a recipe for Liberal governments forever. The CPC has to get serious if they want to govern.
Are you talking about the electoral reform?

I wasn't a fan either. But the principles that underlie most of their policy proposals I can jive with.

Agree or am ambivalent toward with most everything except: "Reform the RCMP to serve as a domestic intelligence service; community policing should be left to the provinces and territories."

A lot of communities need RCMP because they are too small to have their own policy force and there's no provincial police force.

Aren't you answering your own question there? Provinces can create provincial LEAs and be encouraged to do so... (if by no other means than telling them, hey, in 6 years, no more RCMP, figure it out)
 

A Biden Vs. Trump Rematch Is What Voters Want | Opinion​

BROOKE ROLLINS , FOUNDER, AMERICA FIRST POLICY INSTITUTE
ON 8/16/23 AT 6:00 AM EDT


The advent of a new presidential campaign season brings with it the usual political- and media-class sentiment: no one wants to go back (to whatever one thinks there is to go back to), everyone wants to move forward. The conceit of progress that has gripped the American psyche for well over a century always demands the next click in the ratchet. It is the sort of perennial existential discontent, questing for the next thing, that is superb for, say, settling a frontier. It is much less salutary when the "next thing" is a new frontier in state power or societal overthrow.
That desire for novelty has meant the probable (though by no means certain) general-election rematch of Donald Trump and Joe Biden is typically regarded with dread by those whose principal occupation is to talk, not to do.

This is the wrong way to think about it. Change, for its own sake, is not an intrinsic good—ask any resident of a "progressive"-run city, most of which seem to be regressing into primal states. But more important is that, if Americans choose a Trump-Biden rematch next year, it is because it is what Americans want, and because the ideas each man represents are still hotly contested. If they are the nominees, it will be because each of the two men remain the leading choice as the most apt representative of their respective basket of ideas. In this light, 2024-as-rematch is not some failure of civics, a tired re-run set up by an electorate unable to move on. It is instead a sorely needed litigation of a contest still in motion, with a nation at stake.

I won't presume to speak at length to the qualities of Joe Biden in this regard. That's properly left to the progressives and leftists who elevated him once, and will probably elevate him again. From the outside, he seems entirely appropriate as his movement's standard-bearer:  a man whose governance has been wholly surrendered to the imperatives of its most radical elements.

The managed image of Biden as an experienced DC moderate, a man of managerial competency and temperamental steadiness, is belied by events. The narrative of moderation is countermanded by a record of extremist gestures and genuinely radical policy, from a politicized Armed Forces leadership that focuses on "white rage" as much as Communist China, to White House celebrations of sexual-preference niches. The tale of competency has to account for the wreckage of defeat in Afghanistan, inflation, and a pervasive discontent of nearly the whole American citizenry with the country's direction. Say what you will about all this, but one thing that must be admitted is that it represents a particular set of ideas. Joe Biden has brought them to the forefront of governance, and so its proponents will return the favor, personally, for him.

As a veteran of the Trump White House and a movement conservative, I can speak to the qualities of Donald Trump in this vein. He too is the standard bearer of a particular set of ideas. Those ideas are best expressed by him, so I will speak to their effects, which were in evidence from early 2017 until the descent of the COVID pandemic in early 2020. What exactly did those three years of the Trump presidency bring to America? One of the greatest economic expansions in modern American history, peace, the return of industry, the repatriation of capital, middle-class growth, market gains, historic improvements in wealth and income for minority Americans, and on and on and on.

The commentariat likes to focus upon the former president's rough edges—as a Texan, I tend to see them as signals of refinement—but they miss the fact that most Americans simply don't care about those any more than they care about Joe Biden's putative personal decency. (We have to say "putative" for a man who refused to acknowledge his youngest granddaughter until the New York Times shamed him into it.) They care about their own lives, their own families, and their own communities.

They note the difference. And in 2024, it looks like they want a do-over.

None of this is unprecedented in American history. Former presidents have run for non-consecutive reelection before. The election of 1892 was actually won by a former president when the electorate decided that his immediate successor had failed to deliver—and that his original policies were right all along. Don't count out Donald Trump's chances of joining Grover Cleveland in that current club of one. If and when the American people make 2024 a rematch of 2020, just remember that everyone telling you it's a failure of imagination and civics is wrong.
Americans aren't heading toward Trump versus Biden next year because they can't do better.

They're doing it because, for them, there is a real choice between the two—the most important choice of all.

Brooke Leslie Rollins is the Founder of the America First Policy Institute and America First Works, and former Director of the White House Domestic Policy Council.
The views expressed in this article are the writer's own.

As the headline said, it's an opinion.

Regardless of opinions it wouldn't seem sensible to ignore Biden's 40% or Trump's 40%. Plus or Minus either way.
This contest, whatever it is, is not about character, personality or criminality.
There is something else in play.
 
Yet I've read that somewhere between 2/3 and 3/4 of American want both Biden and Trump to be out of the race (up from what I used to think of as 1/2 to 2/3). Apparently the headline writer left out "some" before "voters".
 
I'd remind you also that the official state "religion" of the USSR and CCP was and is atheism. Manifestly, that did not prevent millions from falling in line and upholding two of the most tyrannical and nihilistic regimes in history.
I think many people confuse state atheism as an anti-religious concept whereas in many countries it is merely an indication that there is an absence of a "state religion" and a policy that religion is a private affair that is left alone unless it threatens the state.

The Communist USSR was atheist (in theory). Putin's Russia is deeply Russian-Orthodox. Atheists form only 13% of the country. At the time that the Communists assumed power the constituent parts of the USSR were a peasant culture and deeply religious. While the communists declared state atheism and persecuted priests such persecution had more to do with the church's ties to the Czarist regime than pure religious issues. Once the back of the Czarist support was broken the attitude became neutral and in fact religion had a major revival in the USSR with state support during WW2. Essentially Communists mobilized the church to support the Communist state.

I'm far from an expert on religion and particulalry the religions of China. If I understand the multitude of Asian faiths its that they are more a construct of a pantheon of spirits and deities and cultural standards and social mores. There is no single overarching all-powerful being. The suppression of these "local" religions started under the Nationalists with it's leaders being Christians.

The early CCP established state atheism which by and of itself was not policy of a suppression of religion. There was a view that "feudal" religious systems stood in the path of modernization but the CCP accepted those which were free of foreign interference and supported the new government. The cultural revolution - run by zealots - but subsequently the CCPs constitution incorporated both religious freedom and the right to be free of religion. Personally I think the right to be free of the religious bias and persecution of the masses is a very important freedom.

While both the USSR and the CCP had tyrannical periods, those did not arise through atheism but through power struggles within factions. I think that you are using the term nihilism improperly. Nihilism rejects both religion and moral principles in the belief that life is meaningless. Atheism only rejects religious dogma - the vast , vast majority of atheists have solid moral groundings and believe life has a purpose (just not an overarching obligation to prostrate yourself in hopes of getting into some mythical and wonderful afterlife).

This gets us back to the original point, which was that religion, any religion, conditions a people for authoritarianism and that the relationship between a religion and an autocratic state is often a symbiotic one. The more that a state depends on one religious cult for support the more that cult presses the state to protect it and proselytize its viewpoints by way of laws. In the US this has been the main aim of the Christian right. It has sold the concept that such things as bible readings and prayers at public meeting is an direct attack on their religion rather than being an expression of freedom of and from religion. Add to that their bible generated views on gays and abortion and what you are seeing is a back-door theocracy taking hold. As long as fiscal conservatives have to depend on social conservatives for winning elections the greater the risk is that personal freedoms will suffer to the intolerant. And yes - the same is true on the other side of the aisle.

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Not very much in the pantheon of personal freedoms is at risk to US conservatives. US conservatives generally range from appreciation to reverence in their attitude toward their constitution, which is at the base of most of what they aim to conserve. The First and Second Amendments, in particular, are not really at risk of being eroded by conservatives. "Sleep with whom you please" is not seriously under assault either; contrary to the myth that conservatives are becoming more extreme, polls reveal that conservative Americans' views have shifted in past decades, just not as rapidly as progressives'.

If anyone wants to make arguments about encroaching "authoritarianism", I encourage them to read about what "authoritarianism" is and then examine the criteria to determine which people and parties are genuinely at risk. In particular, authoritarians would pretty much have to throw out 1A and 2A to achieve control, which would run right smack into things most US conservatives hold to be most important. And most US christians hold allegiance to Jesus Christ, not any temporal authority.

If you want to fret about the potential for authoritarianism, look to our own country - no meaningfully powerful executive branch; a bicameral legislature in which one half is appointed by the half which is elected and neither does much nor is expected to do much; a single legislative body with real power which has managed to concentrate almost all of that power in a small circle already, composed partly of unelected people; a remarkable tendency to tolerate an encroachment on firearm rights as a demonstration of the creep towards authoritarianism executing the will of the majority of Canadians. Wait until the real strains of too many ambitions for too few resources start to manifest, and see how the political leadership reacts when people refuse to follow the narrowly intended paths set down by politicians and bureaucrats.
 
If you want to fret about the potential for authoritarianism, look to our own country - no meaningfully powerful executive branch; a bicameral legislature in which one half is appointed by the half which is elected and neither does much nor is expected to do much; a single legislative body with real power which has managed to concentrate almost all of that power in a small circle already, composed partly of unelected people; a remarkable tendency to tolerate an encroachment on firearm rights as a demonstration of the creep towards authoritarianism executing the will of the majority of Canadians. Wait until the real strains of too many ambitions for too few resources start to manifest, and see how the political leadership reacts when people refuse to follow the narrowly intended paths set down by politicians and bureaucrats.
Likely a large side effect of two policies, 1) bilingualism which severely limits how far many people can make in government and tends to favour a small percentage of the population which is geographically clustered in a few mainly urban areas and 2) the fact most the bureaucracy is from Ottawa, made in Ottawa, and lives in Ottawa without much outsider influence coming in to the area or bureaucracy.
 
If you want to fret about the potential for authoritarianism, look to our own country
I actually do - but the title of this thread is "Fractured US."
- no meaningfully powerful executive branch;
I'm not sure what you mean by this. I think the Federal executive branch is too powerful and meddles to much in fields that aren't theirs even though our constitution gives them broad powers. Perhaps your emphasis is on "meaningfully" in that the Feds chase after "squirrels" rather than dealing with the issues that need addressing.
a bicameral legislature in which one half is appointed by the half which is elected and neither does much nor is expected to do much;
Yup - I don't like that either. At the very least its a waste of resources.
a single legislative body with real power which has managed to concentrate almost all of that power in a small circle already, composed partly of unelected people;
Agreed.
a remarkable tendency to tolerate an encroachment on firearm rights as a demonstration of the creep towards authoritarianism executing the will of the majority of Canadians.
Its not just toleration; its activism. But as you say that is the will of the majority. Conundrum!
Wait until the real strains of too many ambitions for too few resources start to manifest, and see how the political leadership reacts when people refuse to follow the narrowly intended paths set down by politicians and bureaucrats.
I don't see it on the horizon except for a tiny minority railing against the moon.

Likely a large side effect of two policies, 1) bilingualism which severely limits how far many people can make in government and tends to favour a small percentage of the population which is geographically clustered in a few mainly urban areas
Language should unite a culture. Ours divides in a way that is seen as unequal by one group.

I disagree with the urban areas in general but definitely agree to the extent that its a few "select" urban areas - basically Montreal and Quebec City, where its a natural occurrence, and Ottawa, where it is an artificial construct. Other major urban areas from Halifax to Toronto to Calgary to Vancouver are excluded. To the vast majority of Canadians, becoming functionally bilingual is an impossibility which can only partially be cured by lengthy, government funded education programs. It's a matter of resentment by the majority of the country. One of the last acts I did before retiring was turn down the best candidate for a job my section was posting for the simple reason that even after 30 years of service he did not have the requisite language profile for the job.

and 2) the fact most the bureaucracy is from Ottawa, made in Ottawa, and lives in Ottawa without much outsider influence coming in to the area or bureaucracy.
This is one of my main complaints about Canadian government and bureaucracy; its clustering in Ottawa. That's a convenience to the bureaucracy but removes it from the people it serves and from gaining a true feel for the country as a whole. Just as importantly much of the country sees government as being distant from them, both physically as well as emotionally. That became clear to me in Manitoba where the provincial government was all clustered in Winnipeg while in North Dakota it was spread out amongst the much smaller four major urban centres spread across the state.

I have the same sense of the US Fed government. While departments are headquartered in Washington, many of the operating services are provided from distributed office across the country. And I don't mean small public service centres but entire divisions that manage a particular function nation wide. That may be a result of pork-barrelling and creates some inefficiency, but the result is a government that's closer to those that it serves.

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I'm not sure what you mean by this. I think the Federal executive branch is too powerful and meddles to much in fields that aren't theirs even though our constitution gives them broad powers. Perhaps your emphasis is on "meaningfully" in that the Feds chase after "squirrels" rather than dealing with the issues that need addressing.
The GG/monarch. What can the GG really do that Parliament couldn't openly oppose in a way that would have the people siding with Parliament?
 
The GG/monarch. What can the GG really do that Parliament couldn't openly oppose in a way that would have the people siding with Parliament?
That's a whole thread in and of itself, isn't it?

I guess that I don't even see the GG/monarch as the executive. To me the executive is the GiC/cabinet and the PMO. I see the GG/monarch as primarily decorative/ceremonial with a few residual powers that might be of value in certain extreme circumstances.

In many ways the ceremonial functions are a vital part of any government. Someone has to give medals, entertain heads of state, etc and allow the PM to concentrate on business (seeing as he's still busy doing gladhanding events he sees as distracting from his lack of performance elsewhere :devilish:)

I'm not anti-republicanism. There are just some things, like the GG/monarchy, that I don't think as a big enough issue that needs fixing and would just end up as a massive expense for the sake of change. Just think of all the cap badges and letterhead that would need to be modified. I went through unification. I'm anti-change for the sake of change.

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I guess that I don't even see the GG/monarch as the executive. To me the executive is the GiC/cabinet and the PMO.
Agreed. Mine was a poor summary (incomplete). It does emphasize how the power is concentrated and the branches are muddled. Easier to consolidate power when most of it is already in one place.
 
Throwing a toonie into this kitty...

I identify as a Protestant with, specifically, Presbyterian proclivities. But I never go to church and I married a Catholic who seldom goes to church. Our kids are nominally Catholic and occasionally accompany their Mum to church.

My values are the values I learned from my "Arminian" parents and Grandparents, if we want to get pedantic about this stuff.

Proper Presbyterians are John Knox Calvinists of the 1648 Westminster Confession.
Arminians are more of the live and let live school that believe that every person understands gods and religions on their own terms. Just like nobody knows the name or the face of God nobody knows what God expects, believes or requires. Therefore all credos, all statements of belief are human inventions that have nothing to do with God or the gods.

Arminian thought gave us social clubs like the Masons and the Kiwanis and movements like the Co-Ops and the Labour Party.

Everybody is answerable to their own conscience and whatever they meet when the lights go out for the last time.

PS - my "Presbyterian Proclivities" tend more towards Knox on the political side than the theological side. With everybody responsible to their own gods and conscience then everybody is equally qualified to voice an opinion on the nature and course of the state. Bottom up democracy negates the need for authoritarian figures. Some people might describe that bottom up view as populism. It has always bothered princes and priests since it tends to push them out of their jobs.
 
Ahhh what?

"Elections Canada, on the other hand, has no plans to introduce technology into the voting process, though it did allow voters to go online to request a paper-based mail-in ballot for the 2021 election. But beyond that, Elections Canada believes a human being casting a paper ballot and a human being processing and counting those paper ballots is still the best way to secure an election. And, indeed, that’s the way it’s been for every single federal election ever: paper ballots and human beings. Elections Canada, in fact, keeps all paper ballots cast in any federal general election or byelection in a warehouse near downtown Ottawa and only disposes of them after 10 years in storage."
Sorry my bad, should of specified provincial, at least here in Ontario.
 
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