A Deeply Fractured US

[brihard]

I don't imagine he'll be alive for long.

No, probably not. What an awful way to go.

 

[KevinB]

Conspiracy theorist doesn't confine him to the Trump camp.

True, but it is an odd location to set fire to oneself without a link to DJT.

 

[brihard]

True, but it is an odd location to set fire to oneself without a link to DJT.

If there are profound mental heath issues at play, that link could be extremely tenuous and not particularly ideological. The trial location is an obvious focal point for media and the public, and anything happening there will get disproportionate coverage. Someone who is able to rationally plan based off irrational beliefs (and those people very much exist) could easily gravitate to that. Absent concrete evidence about the individual’s thinking and beliefs, I don’t want to try to attribute one way or another. All manner of prominent public figures become the focus of some strange and disordered behaviour. Whatever his myriad faults are or may be, the fact that his name is out there and is a bug lamp for crazies is not something Trump should automatically be blamed for.

 

[Kirkhill]

So how fractured IS the US? And where does that fracture line lie?

The FISA issue is at heart a question of individual liberties vs the needs of the state.

House approves surveillance authority reauthorization bill - Roll Call

The House voted to pass a bill Friday to reauthorize a powerful surveillance authority, capping off a bruising months-long debate.

rollcall.com

So where does the left meet the right?

Further to....

The House adopted a rule Friday to take up a $95.3 billion aid package for Ukraine, Israel and Taiwan, in a bipartisan show of support that likely paves the way for passage Saturday.

With scores of Republicans opposed to Ukraine aid and furious that a border security measure was left on the sidelines, Democrats took the unusual step of backing a procedural rule from the majority party to ensure that long-stalled aid would pass.

The 316-94 vote for the rule signaled solid support for the four separate bills that make up the aid package, which also includes measures to increase sanctions on adversaries and force the divestiture of the Chinese-owned social media app TikTok, among other things.


Democrats provided slightly more support for the resolution than GOP lawmakers did, outnumbering Republican “yea” votes by a count of 165 to 151. There were 55 GOP “nay” votes to 39 on the Democratic side.

The rule’s structure allows members to vote for the pieces they like and against those they don’t, which helped bring along Democrats opposed to funneling unconditional military aid to Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s government, for instance.

Rule for emergency aid bill adopted with Democratic support - Roll Call

The House, relying on Democratic votes to overcome Republican opponents, adopted the rule for floor debate on a foreign-aid package.

rollcall.com

Democrats voted 165 tp 39 in favour
Republicans voted 151 to 55 in favour.

Just as in the FISA case the splits are intra-party as much as they are inter-party.

Nobody gets everything they want.

Congratulations to Mike Johnson for crafting a compromise.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Congratulations to Mike Johnson for crafting a compromise.

That one was easy. They were agreeing to spend money on at least one thing each party wanted. Wait and see if they can compromise on anything which involves more than just borrowing and spending.

 

[Kirkhill]

That one was easy. They were agreeing to spend money on at least one thing each party wanted. Wait and see if they can compromise on anything which involves more than just borrowing and spending.

Come Brad, cut some slack. If it was easy it wouldn't have taken 2 years and 2 (or is it 3) speakers to get this far. Somebody did something different to get here. My candidate is the obvious one, the current Speaker.

 

[Kirkhill]

FISA bill passed the Senate - bipartisan splits again.

Senate sends surveillance reauthorization bill to Biden’s desk - Roll Call

The Senate passed a bill Saturday to reauthorize a spy authority for two years, which President Joe Biden is expected to sign into law.

rollcall.com

The chamber voted 60-34 on a House-passed measure that would renew Section 702 of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, which allows the U.S. government to collect digital communications of foreigners located outside the country.

The final vote on the bill split the chamber along policy rather than political lines, with the Senate leaders of both parties supporting the measure. The votes against it came from 17 Democrats, 16 Republicans and 1 independent.

Durbin, in a statement after the vote, said the Section 702 program “sadly” has enabled warrantless access to “vast databases” of Americans’ private communications, and a judge should approve a government attempt to view them.

“I recognize the importance of Section 702, but I could not rubberstamp the House’s flawed bill,” Durbin said. “And without critical changes to improve this bill, I could not support it.”

The Senate rejected six amendments that sought to change the House-passed version on privacy protections, which advocates said were needed after a series of abuses by the FBI.

Among them, the chamber voted 42-50 to reject an amendment from Sen. Richard J. Durbin, D-Ill., that would require the government to get a warrant to access Americans’ communications,

 

[Kirkhill]

Now if only they could get their act together on immigration.

But if they did that what would they campaign on?

U.S. House votes down border bill favored by conservatives • Georgia Recorder

The U.S. House failed to pass a border security bill that GOP leadership intended as an incentive for conservatives to support foreign aid.

georgiarecorder.com

The border bill, turned down on a 215-199 vote, was brought to the floor under a fast-track procedure known as suspension of the rules that requires a two-thirds majority for passage. The conservatives it was meant to appeal to slammed it as a “show vote.”

Five Democrats, Donald G. Davis of North Carolina, Jared Golden of Maine, Vicente Gonzalez of Texas, Mary Peltola of Alaska and Marie Gluesenkamp Perez of Washington, voted with all Republicans present in favor of the bill.

 

[McG]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1782073024226709580

 

[KevinB]

And shots fired.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1782048667223965764

 

[Remius]

Doesn't bode well for the GOP going into an election divided.

 

[kkwd]

Doesn't bode well for the GOP going into an election divided.

Doesn't bode well for Democrats going into the next election divided. The current war in Gaza is driving a wedge into the Democrat voters. You can see the major protests in the streets with mass arrests. The linked article is from March but it has only gotten worse. The difference here is the Democrat example is out in the news every day and the GOP example is a post on X from an anti Trump entity.

Inside the Democratic rebellion against Biden over the Gaza war​

Democrats have been broadly divided over Biden's vocal support of Israel since the Oct. 7 Hamas attacks that killed 1,200 Israelis, polls show. Some Jewish Americans, who largely vote for Democrats, have rallied behind Biden, a self-declared Zionist. Many younger Democrats and people of color oppose his approach, disturbed by a rising death toll from Israel’s retaliation in Gaza that tops 29,700, according to Gaza’s health ministry.

Reuters Article

 

[kkwd]

And shots fired.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1782048667223965764

Shots fired ... into Gonzales' foot ... The DOJ declined to charge Gaetz in February.
NBC Article

 

[KevinB]

Shots fired ... into Gonzales' foot ... The DOJ declined to charge Gaetz in February.
NBC Article

Doesn’t make what Gonzales says less true or less damaging.

 

[Remius]

Doesn't bode well for Democrats going into the next election divided. The current war in Gaza is driving a wedge into the Democrat voters. You can see the major protests in the streets with mass arrests. The linked article is from March but it has only gotten worse. The difference here is the Democrat example is out in the news every day and the GOP example is a post on X from an anti Trump entity.



Reuters Article

While that is a problem it still hasn’t translated to a full on civil war in the house.

 

[brihard]

Shots fired ... into Gonzales' foot ... The DOJ declined to charge Gaetz in February.
NBC Article

So for politicians to be scumbags it’s necessary for them to be charged?

Gonzales spoke truth, and Gaetz won’t lift a finger other than to cry and rant a bit. What you won’t see is any sort of defamation action that would put Gaetz under the microscope of discovery.

 

[kkwd]

While that is a problem it still hasn’t translated to a full on civil war in the house.

Check out the antics of the so called Squad. Tlaib was censured last fall with a vote of 234 to 188 with 22 Democrats voting to censure. That being said there is a far greater effect on the Democrat election efforts from people in the street, many of them and they are very angry.

“I’ve seen some of those statements this weekend, and we’re going to continue to be very clear. We believe they’re wrong, we believe they’re repugnant, and we believe they’re disgraceful,” Jean-Pierre said, without naming names.
“Our condemnation belongs squarely with terrorists who have brutally murdered, raped, kidnapped hundreds, hundreds of Israelis. There can be no equivocation about that. There are not two sides here. There are not two sides,” she added, according to Fox News.

House Clerk Link
NY Post Article

 

[Remius]

Check out the antics of the so called Squad. Tlaib was censured last fall with a vote of 234 to 188 with 22 Democrats voting to censure. That being said there is a far greater effect on the Democrat election efforts from people in the street, many of them and they are very angry.

House Clerk Link
NY Post Article

Sure of course. Still, the GOP has a majority and has been through what? 2 speakers and maybe another soon? And still can’t get much done? The squad never did anything close to that.

 

[kkwd]

Sure of course. Still, the GOP has a majority and has been through what? 2 speakers and maybe another soon? And still can’t get much done? The squad never did anything close to that.

There was a major move this past week for foreign aid to Ukraine Israel and Taiwan. This with Bi-partisan support. Johnson achieved this even with threats from Republicans. I'll go out on a limb and say that is getting "much done".

 

[brihard]

There was a major move this past week for foreign aid to Ukraine Israel and Taiwan. This with Bi-partisan support. Johnson achieved this even with threats from Republicans. I'll go out on a limb and say that is getting "much done".

They could have had it months ago plus a border bill with bipartisan support, but they pissed that away catering to their party’s extremists. They’ve realized that on substantive issues they may have more in common with, and more to gain from working with, the other party’s centrist moderates than their own party’s lunatic fringe.