A Deeply Fractured US

[Brad Sallows]

David Frum's opinion, once upon a time.
Whether he was correct to assume "fasicsts" rather than "someone else", he was correct about the cause-effect.

 

[brihard]

I hesitate getting involved, but here is some footage from a different angle. I've watched it a few times. It certainly looks like she made contact with the officer. Not sure though.

Video: New angles shows moment ICE agent shoots Minneapolis woman dead | Daily Mail Online

New angle shows moment ICE agent shoots Minneapolis woman dead after she tries to 'ram them over.'

www.dailymail.co.uk

I think there was a bit of contact too, but largely because he planted and drew rather than simply getting out of the way. She wasn’t trying to hit him. That’s not to excuse dangerous driving, however it’s not a sort of threat where your smart move is to shoot at it. Cars have inertia, and that’s even without a wounded driver flooring the gas- as happened here. Just get off the X.

 

[Booter]

She did contact him. There’s potential there for a variety of charges. None of them would still justify the shooting so largely it’s not that important. It’s important for the truth of the matter. It’s not for justifying the result

 

[Furniture]

I think there was a bit of contact too, but largely because he planted and drew rather than simply getting out of the way. She wasn’t trying to hit him. That’s not to excuse dangerous driving, however it’s not a sort of threat where your smart move is to shoot at it. Cars have inertia, and that’s even without a wounded driver flooring the gas- as happened here. Just get off the X.

Yeah, from both angles it appears that she panicked and tried to get away... Not the best move, but not entirely unreasonable.

It's a shitty situation for the woman and the officers that shot at her.

 

[PuckChaser]

I have cleaned up and issued warnings to the thread of personal attacks and trolling other posters. Some posts that were not rule breaking went with it just as it was easier than deleting quotes.

We appreciate those that didn’t take the bait and tried to stay on topic. If long time forum members or casual visitors can't handle people who generally debate in good faith from the opposite side of the aisle, this isn't the forum for you. We're not turning it into an echo chamber for anyone. If the attacks and name calling continue, individuals will have their politics forum access temporarily or permanently removed.

- Milnet.ca Staff

 

[HavokFour]

Thanks. Looks like a traffic stop attempt that took place at least partly in the facility parking lot. Maybe they were just leaving, maybe they pulled into the lot to stop; that’s not unusual when people want to get off a road.

I’ve seen a photo of a car with a smashed up front end, bumped missing. Might be there was an attempt to box them in and they fled.

I’m waiting for more info on this one. CBP aren’t the boneheads ICE hires for removal ops. They tend to have their poop in more of a group.

But the onus is completely on them to articulate what happened and why. That’s how it works when you pull the trigger as a cop.

Allegedly a member of the CBP, in Minneapolis.

https://www.reddit.com/r/law/comments/1q7ytlc/cbp_points_gun_directly_at_protesters_head

 

[Kilted]

With the conflicts between State and Federal agencies, I'm wondering when we are going to start hearing the topic of State's rights come up.

 

[Lumber]

With the conflicts between State and Federal agencies, I'm wondering when we are going to start hearing the topic of State's rights come up.

This might be my “TDS” showing, but from where I’m sitting it looks like a full inversion. The old states’-rights absolutists have become enthusiastic federalists the moment centralized power serves Trump. Meanwhile, those who were historically more accepting of federal authority are increasingly rediscovering states’ rights, not out of ideology, but as a defensive response to what they see as executive overreach from a Trump-led federal government.

 

[FSTO]

Yeah, from both angles it appears that she panicked and tried to get away... Not the best move, but not entirely unreasonable.

It's a shitty situation for the woman and the officers that shot at her.

You’re giving that ICE meathead much more respect than I will. After he shot her he walks back from the crash scene, spins his hand in the air of “let’s GTFO of here”. Another clown who shouldn’t be mall cop let alone walking about a city all tactical up!

Also feds not cooperating or coordinating with locals is astounding (to me). Could you imagine the RCMP running around shooting people in Ottawa and not telling the locals what they’re doing? Or am I out to lunch?

 

[Halifax Tar]

With the conflicts between State and Federal agencies, I'm wondering when we are going to start hearing the topic of State's rights come up.

Will this be the ignition of the powder keg ? Some state or municipal PD gets into a shooting match with ICE or some other Fed organization ?

Pressure is building and its going to need to release at some point.

 

[Genetk44]

Will this be the ignition of the powder keg ? Some state or municipal PD gets into a shooting match with ICE or some other Fed organization ?

Pressure is building and its going to need to release at some point.

That is exactly what Trump and his minions want... it is why they keep building the pressure up

 

[Halifax Tar]

That is exactly what Trump and his minions want... it is why they keep building the pressure up

Your biases are showing.

 

[Quirky]

The woman who died is not a victim. Pretty stupid decision to get involved in that situation in the first place, and even more stupid to drive your car at a group of people with guns. She was there with the sole purpose of impeding the police in doing their job, all it took was meeting the wrong officer at the wrong time. FAFO on her part as well. If you're a good law abiding mother like they're claiming maybe she'd be busy either taking care of her kids, or working rather than trying to impede ICE from doing their jobs. The end result was just a statistical inevitability.

 

[Rifleman62]

Her wife was videoing the whole episode. You can hear her in the background. The officer who fired has been identified as the one who was dragged 100 yards during a stop 6 months ago. If you look at the video this officer also has his phone out pointing at the vehicle.

 

[brihard]

The woman who died is not a victim.

Yes she was

Pretty stupid decision to get involved in that situation in the first place,

Please tell us what you know about her involvement that the rest of us don’t. The most damning thing I’ve read is she may have been there as a ‘legal observer’. Observing and filming law enforcement is legal.

and even more stupid to drive your car at a group of people with guns.

It’s also stupid for multiple armed masked men in plainclothes and an unmarked vehicle to jump out at people, not identify themselves as police, and order them out of a car.

It’s also stupid, and poor tactics, for a police officer to move around a vehicle to the front.

Had her intent been to drive through police she would not have reversed to K turn- but then she would have plowed straight through the shooter, who at the time was walking from her 1 o’clock to her 12. As she reversed wheel left, her nose swung such that he was at about the 11:30. Had he kept walking as he had be he would have been clear. Everything I see is consistent with her trying to safely escape without getting hurt or hurting anyone else.

She was there with the sole purpose of impeding the police in doing their job,

Show your work please. Observing is not impeding.

all it took was meeting the wrong officer at the wrong time. FAFO on her part as well.

You’re right. A competent police officer would not have killed her.

If you're a good law abiding mother like they're claiming maybe she'd be busy either taking care of her kids, or working rather than trying to impede ICE from doing their jobs. The end result was just a statistical inevitability.

Observing law enforcement is legal. Her kids were in school. Her family and employment status is irrelevant to the lawfulness or not of shooting her in the face.

Thank frig you chose the career you did, and not the career I did. You’d be a massive liability on the road and probably a supervisory nightmare.

 

[Jarnhamar]

The woman who died is not a victim. Pretty stupid decision to get involved in that situation in the first place, and even more stupid to drive your car at a group of people with guns. She was there with the sole purpose of impeding the police in doing their job, all it took was meeting the wrong officer at the wrong time. FAFO on her part as well. If you're a good law abiding mother like they're claiming maybe she'd be busy either taking care of her kids, or working rather than trying to impede ICE from doing their jobs. The end result was just a statistical inevitability.

Standing up against tyranny is a bedrock of American culture, or at least posturing about standing up to it.

If she was there for the sole purpose of getting in ICE's way then sure, architect of her own demise.

At the same time more and more examples are surfacing ICE agents acting like paid goons deputized in a wild west movie. Why is a widowed mother and poet standing up to ICE's behavior while all those anti-tyranny advocates are looking at their feet? Unless...

 

[Halifax Tar]

Oldie but a goodie

 

[Kirkhill]

Standing up against tyranny is a bedrock of American culture, or at least posturing about standing up to it.

If she was there for the sole purpose of getting in ICE's way then sure, architect of her own demise.

At the same time more and more examples are surfacing ICE agents acting like paid goons deputized in a wild west movie. Why is a widowed mother and poet standing up to ICE's behavior while all those anti-tyranny advocates are looking at their feet? Unless...

Score one for the CRINKS. Anything that destabilizes us is a win for them.

 

[Quirky]

Please tell us what you know about her involvement that the rest of us don’t. The most damning thing I’ve read is she may have been there as a ‘legal observer’. Observing and filming law enforcement is legal.

So nothing better to do in the middle of the day, harass law enforcement and follow them around.

It’s also stupid for multiple armed masked men in plainclothes and an unmarked vehicle to jump out at people, not identify themselves as police, and order them out of a car.

This doesn't matter.

It’s also stupid, and poor tactics, for a police officer to move around a vehicle to the front.

Ok.

Had her intent been to drive through police she would not have reversed to K turn- but then she would have plowed straight through the shooter, who at the time was walking from her 1 o’clock to her 12. As she reversed wheel left, her nose swung such that he was at about the 11:30. Had he kept walking as he had be he would have been clear. Everything I see is consistent with her trying to safely escape without getting hurt or hurting anyone else.

She chose to be there in the first place, she decided to loaf around ICE agents.

Show your work please. Observing is not impeding.

Observing is a personal choice.

You’re right. A competent police officer would not have killed her.

I don't care about the result, that's irrelevant. She had nothing better to do and ended up in that situation under her own free will.

Observing law enforcement is legal. Her kids were in school. Her family and employment status is irrelevant to the lawfulness or not of shooting her in the face.

She was a loser and had no reason to be there. This was corroborated by the statement from her family. Being shot in the face was irrelevant, that was one out of many outcomes.

Thank frig you chose the career you did, and not the career I did. You’d be a massive liability on the road and probably a supervisory nightmare.

You always have to get a personal attack in whenever you disagree with someone. A sign of true intelligence. I'm done with you.

Why is a widowed mother and poet standing up to ICE's behavior while all those anti-tyranny advocates are looking at their feet?

There are enough useful idiots out there for the democrats to gaslight into some sort of rebellion against Trump. Their rage is fed by the media who have no problem putting gas on the fire. Where were they when Biden and Obama were using ICE to deport illegals?

 

[Kirkhill]

So nothing better to do in the middle of the day, harass law enforcement and follow them around.



This doesn't matter.



Ok.



She chose to be there in the first place, she decided to loaf around ICE agents.



Observing is a personal choice.



I don't care about the result, that's irrelevant. She had nothing better to do and ended up in that situation under her own free will.



She was a loser and had no reason to be there. This was corroborated by the statement from her family. Being shot in the face was irrelevant, that was one out of many outcomes.



You always have to get a personal attack in whenever you disagree with someone. A sign of true intelligence. I'm done with you.



There are enough useful idiots out there for the democrats to gaslight into some sort of rebellion against Trump. Their rage is fed by the media who have no problem putting gas on the fire. Where were they when Biden and Obama were using ICE to deport illegals?

There are days you live up to your name.