A possible C-130H Replacement?

[MarkOttawa]

From what I have read over quite a while it seems that the Air Force has a pretty clear preference for the C-27J for the FWSAR role; I suspect part of the reason is that the plane is also a pretty capable transport and could well supplement the new Herc fleet for transport missions within Canada.  After all, the Jercs we are buying will replace just over half the Herc E/H fleet we had several years ago (with the remaining Es devoted now mainly to SAR).  I assume that as the Jercs arrive the Hs will take over the SAR role from the Es until the FWSAR aircraft arrives

Mark
Ottawa

 

[thunderchild]

May be we have an opportunity here to design and build our own C130J replacement. We just have to keep it on cost and make sure that we should be selling it abroad.  If the A-400M becomes too expensive and the C-130K goes the same route which is likely we may have excellent sales potential to foreign governments or civilian operators.  We would have a 25 year timeframe to build an affordable aircraft that does what we need it to. If Brazil can build the C-360 (I know it has been heavily subsidised) why can't we do it better and More affordable?

 

[aesop081]

and the C-130K goes the same

The C-130K itself is close to retirement. In case you dont know this, its operated by the RAF and has been so for a long time.

 

[TCBF]

May be we have an opportunity here to design and build our own C130J replacement. We just have to keep it on cost and make sure that we should be selling it abroad.  If the A-400M becomes too expensive and the C-130K goes the same route which is likely we may have excellent sales potential to foreign governments or civilian operators.  We would have a 25 year timeframe to build an affordable aircraft that does what we need it to. If Brazil can build the C-360 (I know it has been heavily subsidised) why can't we do it better and More affordable?

- The last time we tried that on a large scale, we bit off more than we could chew and the customer - the RCAF - could not manage it's budget with it's other priorities and recommended it's cancellation.  25,000 Canadians then lost their jobs.

 

[Spencer100]

- The last time we tried that on a large scale, we bit off more than we could chew and the customer - the RCAF - could not manage it's budget with it's other priorities and recommended it's cancellation.  25,000 Canadians then lost their jobs.

Don't bring that up!  At least CBC got to make a movie!

 

[thunderchild]

I'm not suggesting building an aircraft that will meet air 7-3, We have designed turbo prop aircraft in Canada as well as DC-9/MD-80 size 'C' series jet aircraft. Why not build our own transport while we have the time to do it right. A transport aircraft will have more sales potential abroad than a Mach 2 interceptor would have. Designing it to meet various civil as well as military needs would give us a wider customer base to cover development costs.  The only thing is we have to ensure that out of control programs don't happen. For example building a weapon system, an airframe , new engine, flight controll, radar ,develop new metals and the list goes on. It is great to be inventive, but not at the cost of the programs future.  The Arrow got lost in the technology to build it not in providing an affordable aircraft.

 

[TCBF]

... The Arrow got lost in the technology to build it not in providing an affordable aircraft.

- Yup. A TIMELY affordable aircraft. And in all fairness, we were not the only ones to get tripped up in that - see the F-108, for example.  Trouble is, a country our size could only go for one project, and when that goes south...

- Was there not some people asking why Bombardier could not build military transports instread of us buying the C-17? Did Bombardier not say they weren't interested, just send them the money?

 

[eurowing]

Thunderchild, look up the AVRO Jetliner and it's history alongside the Arrow. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avro_Canada_Jetliner

 

[geo]

WRT the building of a Canadian cargo.... we did - the Caribou / Buffalo - built by De Haviland.... and it is exactly that aircraft that we are discussing in another thread.

 

[thunderchild]

I know that we did it in the past my grandfather helped to design them and ran Beaver production in the late 40's.What I'm saying is let's do it again. With out the pressure of pushing out something that could be great but gets botched up we have time to do the job right.

 

[observor 69]

We need a FWSAR bird NOW!

The government of the day had run out of funds to continue to invest in the Arrow.

 

[geo]

Ummm.... and how much time are you providing to get the design, testing and prototype construction / approval ???

Problem with what you propose is that it will take much much more time to do it .... than the time span that is available.
Our hercs are worn down to the cord as we speak.  Gun tape, bubblegum, wire and glue isn't going to keep em flying long enough to make lifecycle extensions possible....  Outside of using something that is already on the shelf, we've done too little and waited too long for a homegrown solution.

 

[thunderchild]

Fixed wing SAR Is diffrent from what I'm proposing. That is needed ASAP.  What I'm saying is that we bought 4 C-17 and 17 C-130J's, my understanding is that these aircraft are to replace the 'E' models that are falling appart and there is needing to replace the 'H's' soon as well.  From  various post I've learned that the expected life of an airframe is 25 years.  There is time to design and build their replacement,  we can off set the development costs by selling civilian version of a military aircraft, airfreight is one of the fastest growing sectors in the civil aviation market according to aviation week.  The 'J's' start arriving in 2010 I understand and the 'H's' should be replaced by 2015 there about.  So by time frameThe first aircraft should be coming off the line in 2014 That gives us 5 years for R&D, tool up and production to begin If you want to do it fast which would increase cost. If you want to focus on a replacement on the C-17 & C-130J we have brand new airframes, that gives us way more time, which meansmore opportunity to sellabroad.

 

[aesop081]

That doesnt solve the C-130H replacement problem now does it ?

 

[geo]

Thunderchild....
So you're espousing that Canada, through military contracts, encourages Canadian industry to go into R&D development of military cargo aircraft that will meet our need the NEXT replacement cycle of our current (new) cargo fleet.... saaaay 20 to 30 yrs from now ???

 

[aesop081]

On second thought ( or maybe its fourth or fifth...i'm not sure) Thunderchild, you are right about everything. I'm sorry i debated with you from my position of total ignorance.

 

[observor 69]

;D

 

[Haletown]

Maybe this is a way to "invest" our way out of a recession.

We could design and build a "Super Herc" . .  bigger, faster, better, blah, blah, blah.

We could call it the C400M

Snark off

 

[Nfld Sapper]

Or the Spruce Goose....................................


Oh wait that's taken.........................








;D

 

[Haletown]

or another way to think about is

How do you invest in  a $5 billion new aircraft development  project ?

Start with a $2 billion new aircraft  development  project.