A question for any "experts" or some of the RCR's that might post here

[Johnny_H]

Hello ladies and gents, I am John Harrison last I posted here was well a year and a half ago. I am from Halifax Nova Scotia and I am a huge military history buff, battles, uniforms and fighting equiptment being my favored topics, this leads to my question.

I recently purchased "The Canadian Army at War" by Mike Chappell from Osprey Publishing. This book was first published in the 80's if I am not mistaken, and I have come across something I find quite odd, one of the panels shows the parade uniform of a RCR officer vintage 1928, he wears the scarlet tunic with gold piping on the cuffs and collar ( which is still the same today ) Infact the uniform looks exactly the same except for the modern Canadian drill boots worn, and one major differance the pugaree is blue? in Mike Chapells coloured plate ( I'm sure you know what this means but for the benefit of those who do not, it is the coloured cloth that wraps around the woseley style parade helmet worn by the RCR's ). Anyone who is familiar knows the RCR pugaree is red, so this makes me ask this question? Is Mike Chapells representation incorrect? or ... was it blue at one point and changed to red. I know that during the "Unification" of the Canadian military and then after when the brances gained thier identity back allot of uniform changes have taken place, but I was just wondering why the colour of the pugaree would change if it did? or was Mike Chappells Osprey representation incorrect.

Any takers? I am hoping for an answer because although its minor, little things like this keep people like me up at night lol.

Thank you
Links below to the images

Mike Chappells colour plate


RCR's on parade at Halifax Citadel 2006 Changing of the Guard ceremony

 

[Michael OLeary]

From the reprint of "Canadian Militia Dress Regulations, 1907":

The 1907 regulations specified that the puggaree for The RCR was white.

In 1914, however, a scarlet puggaree was authorized for The RCR.  (General Order 53, April, 1914)

 

[AJFitzpatrick]

From the reprint of "Canadian Militia Dress Regulations, 1907":

The 1907 regulations specified that the puggaree for The RCR was white.

In 1914, however, a scarlet puggaree was authorized for The RCR.  (General Order 53, April, 1914)

The Sherbrooke Hussars, The Princess of Wales' Own Regiment, The Hastings and Prince Edward Regiment, The Lincoln and Welland,  Le Régiment de la Chaudière, The West Nova Scotia Regiment, Le Régiment de Saguenay, The North Saskatchewan Regiment, The Rocky Mountain Rangers, The Royal Montreal Regiment and The Royal Newfoundland regiment wear blue puggarees on Wolsey helmets so there is plenty of opportunity for a mistake to have been made.

 

[211RadOp]

The Sherbrooke Hussars, The Princess of Wales' Own Regiment, The Hastings and Prince Edward Regiment, The Lincoln and Welland,  Le Régiment de la Chaudière, The West Nova Scotia Regiment, Le Régiment de Saguenay, The North Saskatchewan Regiment, The Rocky Mountain Rangers, The Royal Montreal Regiment and The Royal Newfoundland regiment wear blue puggarees on Wolsey helmets so there is plenty of opportunity for a mistake to have been made.

As does the Royal New Brunswick Regiment

 

[AJFitzpatrick]

As does the Royal New Brunswick Regiment

Thanks, it was a long list.
I also note that many of the regiments wearing the blue pugaree have blue facings like the RCR. Misidentification in the source material ?

 

[Johnny_H]

The Sherbrooke Hussars, The Princess of Wales' Own Regiment, The Hastings and Prince Edward Regiment, The Lincoln and Welland,  Le Régiment de la Chaudière, The West Nova Scotia Regiment, Le Régiment de Saguenay, The North Saskatchewan Regiment, The Rocky Mountain Rangers, The Royal Montreal Regiment and The Royal Newfoundland regiment wear blue puggarees on Wolseley helmets so there is plenty of opportunity for a mistake to have been made.

As Do the reg force PPCLI and the reserve unit the Princess Louise Fusiliers, so the plate is innacurate then.
I know the pugaree was white befor It was red. Also I do believe a differant head dress was worn as the Wolseley helmet they wear was established in 1920. I would imagin befor that they would of worn the regular British Foriegn service helmet or "Pith Helmet" with a white pugaree. I could be mistaken though as they might have discontinued use of this helmet befor 1920, I am only basing this off the fact that the pattern helmet they wear now is the 1920 pattern.

The RCR's however did wear the old pith helmet up too the turn of the century, so it isnt entirely unrealistic to imagin that is what they wore befor 1920.

Here is a picture of the RCR's at Wellington Barracks in Halifax ( Note the earlier style British Foriegn service helmet  prior to Wolsely pattern helmet )

The 3rd (Special Service) Battalion, Royal Canadian Regiment of Infantry changes the guard at Wellington Barracks, Gottingen Street, Halifax, 1900. - Warmuseum.ca

 

[211RadOp]

I believe the PPCLI puggaree is French Grey.

Edited: According to the Dress Instructions the PPCLI puggaree is French Grey.

 

[AJFitzpatrick]

I am guessing the French Grey colour for the PPCLI is from having been part of the 3rd Canadian Division in World War One (it having a French Grey patch).

Also I know that PWOR perpetuates the 21st Bn CEF which was part of the 2nd Canadian Division (it having a Blue patch). I don't have my list of perpetuations immediately available but I wouldn't be surprised if many of the regiments with blue pugares perpetuate CEF Bns that were part of the 2nd Canadian Division.

The colour matching is not consistent though, the RCR for instance was part of the 3rd Canadian Division and the RNfldR didn't serve in the CEF at all.

 

[Michael OLeary]

Also I know that PWOR perpetuates the 21st Bn CEF which was part of the 2nd Canadian Division (it having a Blue patch). I don't have my list of perpetuations immediately available but I wouldn't be surprised if many of the regiments with blue pugares perpetuate CEF Bns that were part of the 2nd Canadian Division.

Perpetuation of the Units of the Canadian Expeditionary Force (C.E.F.), 1914-1919

 

[AJFitzpatrick]

Thank You, I guess I'm not to get out of this that easily 
RMtlR perpetuates the 23rd (as well as the 14th)
RNBR perpetuates the 26th.
plus PWOR perpetuating the 21st

I guess I was a little too dogmatic in my original statement.

 

[Gordon Angus Mackinlay]

Mr Harrison,

in regard to your query on Mike Chappell's illustration (book published 1985), the figure shown is actually in 'Levee Dress' not 'Parade Order'.

Your persumption that the RCR wore a 'Scarlet' (not red) pugaree is correct, however.  It was the norm in the inter-war period (1919-39) for regimental officers in the various Commonwealth armies (not Colonial Forces) when appointed to the staff or who were ERE (Extra-Regimentally Employed, an officer appointed to command a school/training establishment, on the Staff College course etc) to have when wearing the various forms of full dress, a indication that they were not posted with troops (ie. their parent regiment).  In the case of those who wore the various forms of helmets, or slouch hats in full dress, a Royal Blue puggaree was worn.

The illustration of the Lt Col of RCR is so wearing a 'Royal Blue' puggaree.

In the 'Tribal' fashions of the regiments of the British Army there was no such simple indication, and it could vary between battalions of the same regiment (reflecting the pre-Cardwell Reform regiments)!

I have always been impressed by the realistic illustration of SGT William Merrifield, VC, MM, 4th Bn CEF, directly opposite the figure of your interest.

Yours,
Jock in Sydney

 

[Johnny_H]

wow sir, my hat gos off to you.


Thank you
I very much appreciate not only all the replies, but the PM letting me know you responded to my question.
I would not of known, as I am not a regular here and I forgot I had posted this question.


Thank you very much, and my hat go's off to you
Best regards
Cheers