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Aerospace Engineer ( AERE )

casing

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Anyone happen to know where the PPT (Practical Phase Training) sessions take place for AERE?   Are they even localized to a specific area?

Thanks!
 

Zoomie

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You can be sent to almost every Wing during your PPT phase.  We have a whole slew of RMC OCdts here in Comox right now - working on the Aurora.  Likewise, you could go to a fighter base, tac hel unit or Hercules Squadron.  It all depens on your entry plan. DEO AERE's spend a good number of months travelling around from base to base, working on each airframe in the CF. 
 

casing

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Thanks Zoomie!   That is the absolute most information I have been able to get out of anyone about the PPTs.  Mmmm... Comox.... now that would be sweet.  

I'm DEO AERE, so my wife isn't going to be too happy about that phase of the training, but she'll get over it.   Amen for an understanding lady!
 

tyoung

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Hi Im new to this board but I have to say everything is very informative.  Great Job.

Anyway, my reason for posting was I am currently completing my Engineering degree and looking at AERE when I'm done.  What I was wondering was where would I most likely be initially employed once I was done all my training?  or would anyone know where most new AERE engineers end up initially?

Thanks

 

cp140tech

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  Anywhere that we have aircraft stationed, there will be AERE officers.  I'm not sure if there are any positions in Ottawa for new AERE's, it seems to be a common second posting once they get about 5 years or so on their first base.  I may be able to give you some vague/general direction or help if you have specific questions about bases or working environment.
 

tyoung

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So pretty much anywhere in Canada?  I'm just wondering because I really would prefer to stay on this side of the pond.  Do you have any info about what type of role new AERE engineers have?
 
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aesop081

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tyoung said:
I really would prefer to stay on this side of the pond. 

If you are not willing to move ANYWHERE in the country  then don'y join
 

tyoung

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I am willing to move anywhere in the country I would actually welcome moving far away from where I currently am(Hamilton).  I was just wondering how frequent AERE get sent overseas or into combat zones.
 
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aesop081

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tyoung said:
  I'm just wondering because I really would prefer to stay on this side of the pond. 

tyoung said:
  I was just wondering how frequent AERE get sent overseas or into combat zones.

Should i take you don't want to deploy on overseas operations ? Because if you are not willing t deploy to war zones  you can go work for these gys :

http://www.aircanada.com/en/about/career/index.html
 

cp140tech

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tyoung said:
I am willing to move anywhere in the country I would actually welcome moving far away from where I currently am(Hamilton).  I was just wondering how frequent AERE get sent overseas or into combat zones.

    Any base in Canada with aircraft is a possible posting for you......  and probably a few others such as Ottawa etc.  There are few deployments of AERE officers that I'm aware of, and those few are probably sought after.  If we send a large detachment away for a deployment or a big TD, then they might take an AERE.....  otherwise it's just not required.  If an AERE sees combat, something has gone horribly wrong.

    New AERE's end up as Line Servicing Officers, Aircraft Maintenance Support Officers......  that sort of thing.  I work at 14 AMS, there are 3 first line servicing crews..... each crew has an AERE at the Lt/Capt rank as the Line Servicing Officer, and they work the same shift that I do.....  7 on 3 off, 7 on 4 off.  The job is essentially human resources, material resources, and project management from what I've seen.  There is little or no hard engineering performed, perhaps some in Ottawa or with the few evaluation and testing units we have in the Air Force.  You generally don't see much of them, little or no impact is felt when they rotate positions.
 
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aesop081

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cp140tech said:
    Any base in Canada with aircraft is a possible posting for you......  and probably a few others such as Ottawa etc.  There are few deployments of AERE officers that I'm aware of, and those few are probably sought after.  If we send a large detachment away for a deployment or a big TD, then they might take an AERE.....  otherwise it's just not required.  If an AERE sees combat, something has gone horribly wrong.

AERE officers are deployed to support LRP operation at RIMPAC right now, We took an AERE to Shemya for OP DRIFTNET this june. We took AERE officers to EX NOBLE MANTA (aka DOGFISH 31) in Italy last February.  There were AERE officers deployed to NAS Sigonella for OP ACTIVE ENDEVOUR ( aka OP SIRIUS) and to Mirage for OP APOLLO.  I'm sure that when a Tac Hel sqn goes overseas they have AERE officers with them as well, Not dure about the CH-124 Hel Air Dets on ship.  I think the odds of finding yourself on the other side of the world are pretty good. If we end up deploying a number of helos to the Ghan, i'm sure an AERE officer will be along and as with any other soldier deployed in a theatre of war, you're a target ( do the rockets fired at KAF ring a bell ?)

    New AERE's end up as Line Servicing Officers, Aircraft Maintenance Support Officers......  that sort of thing.  I work at 14 AMS, there are 3 first line servicing crews..... each crew has an AERE at the Lt/Capt rank as the Line Servicing Officer, and they work the same shift that I do.....  7 on 3 off, 7 on 4 off.  The job is essentially human resources, material resources, and project management from what I've seen.  There is little or no hard engineering performed, perhaps some in Ottawa or with the few evaluation and testing units we have in the Air Force.  You generally don't see much of them, little or no impact is felt when they rotate positions.

This is consistent with what i see downstairs and hear from our techs.
 

Scoobs

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Okay, I'm an AERE officer.  Been posted to a Tac Hel unit, currently at the school.  AEREs do go overseas on postings.  They have been to Kosovo, Bosnia, UAE, Afghanistan, Sudan, etc.  So, please, don't tell me that AERE's don't go overseas.  Also, AEREs can be posted directly to Ottawa after the AERE Course (I think I should know since I teach on the course!)  AEREs can be posted anywhere in Canada, and other locations such as Germany (AWACs).  There are many different postings that an AERE can do, here are some:
-operations: anywhere there are airbases or aircraft flying, Comox, Pat Bay, Edmonton, Cold Lake, Borden (near Barrie), Petawawa, Montreal, Valcartier (near Quebec City), Bagotville, Greenwood, Shearwater, etc;
-staff: headquarters for various Wings, DAEPM (technical side of house), DTA (airworthiness), NDHQ HQ (CAS, etc), etc;
-HARD ENGINEERING:  ATESS, DTA (to some extent), instructing at RMC, Canadian Space Agency, AETE, QETE, etc.;
-other: instructing in Borden, Recruiting Centres, etc.
Therefore, a lot of different positions to keep people interested since there are so many different types of jobs out there for AEREs.  I guess this contradicts some of the ignorant comments provided by some in this thread.
Fact of the matter is that AERE is part of the Air Ops branch since we are responsible for putting rubber on the ramp for the aircrew to fly in.  We don't primarily worry about logistics, etc.  Get aircraft fixed that are serviceable, but not perfect, so that the missions can be met.  Fact is that you will always need a point man in a maint org that can juggle many different tasks such as admin, airworthiness issues, getting parts issues resolved, being the liaison between pilots and techs (personally, this took a lot of my time up), ensuring that aircraft get fixed in a timely manner, etc.  Yes, we don't actually turn the wrench and I give the techs the credit here because they deserve it 100%.  However, can a tech fix the a/c, do all the admin, maintain airworthiness (docs, procedures, etc), solve personal problems or help to get mbrs help, make leadership decisions, etc?  No, someone has to do some of that work.  The techs fix the a/c, and AEREs take care of all the other stuff.

Please, for those who offer their opinions when not knowing the facts, ask before you post!

 
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aesop081

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Scoobs said:
Okay, I'm an AERE officer.  Been posted to a Tac Hel unit, currently at the school.  AEREs do go overseas on postings.  They have been to Kosovo, Bosnia, UAE, Afghanistan, Sudan, etc.  So, please, don't tell me that AERE's don't go overseas.  Also, AEREs can be posted directly to Ottawa after the AERE Course (I think I should know since I teach on the course!)  AEREs can be posted anywhere in Canada, and other locations such as Germany (AWACs).  There are many different postings that an AERE can do, here are some:
-operations: anywhere there are airbases or aircraft flying, Comox, Pat Bay, Edmonton, Cold Lake, Borden (near Barrie), Petawawa, Montreal, Valcartier (near Quebec City), Bagotville, Greenwood, Shearwater, etc;
-staff: headquarters for various Wings, DAEPM (technical side of house), DTA (airworthiness), NDHQ HQ (CAS, etc), etc;
-HARD ENGINEERING:  ATESS, DTA (to some extent), instructing at RMC, Canadian Space Agency, AETE, QETE, etc.;
-other: instructing in Borden, Recruiting Centres, etc.
Therefore, a lot of different positions to keep people interested since there are so many different types of jobs out there for AEREs.  I guess this contradicts some of the ignorant comments provided by some in this thread.
Fact of the matter is that AERE is part of the Air Ops branch since we are responsible for putting rubber on the ramp for the aircrew to fly in.  We don't primarily worry about logistics, etc.  Get aircraft fixed that are serviceable, but not perfect, so that the missions can be met.  Fact is that you will always need a point man in a maint org that can juggle many different tasks such as admin, airworthiness issues, getting parts issues resolved, being the liaison between pilots and techs (personally, this took a lot of my time up), ensuring that aircraft get fixed in a timely manner, etc.  Yes, we don't actually turn the wrench and I give the techs the credit here because they deserve it 100%.  However, can a tech fix the a/c, do all the admin, maintain airworthiness (docs, procedures, etc), solve personal problems or help to get mbrs help, make leadership decisions, etc?  No, someone has to do some of that work.  The techs fix the a/c, and AEREs take care of all the other stuff.

I dont know it works in your outfit sir, but here, when we have snags, we dont go talk to an AERE , we talk to the techs directly at the snag desk.  The only time i hear an AERE's voice is at morning brief.

Please, for those who offer their opinions when not knowing the facts, ask before you post!

I'm pretty sure i had my facts straight.

 

navymich

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Scoobs said:
  I guess this contradicts some of the ignorant comments provided by some in this thread.

That seems a bit harsh to me.  When I look at the profiles of the 2 members who have added to this thread, I see their rank, trade and experience.  From that, I take their answers as solid.  They have both stated what is being done at their current posting.  How can this be ignorant when they are in a position to see how AERE are employed?

Your profile, on the other hand, is empty.  I do appreciate the fact that you have given your position, background and experience in your post, and I am sure that it will prove helpful to the originator of this thread, but I think you will show more credibility with a completed profile as well as respect for those that work with you.
 

cp140tech

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  First off, I didn't say that they don't go overseas.  I said I wasn't sure about first postings to Ottawa.

  I didn't say the job wasn't interesting, but as a graduate of a civvie engineering program, he may be expecting something different than what he's likely to see on a first posting to a flying unit.  I've spoken to the several new AERE's as they were doing their summer training about the applicability of their employment towards a professional engineering designation, they all responded that they would receive no credit from the duties they would perform in a position like LSO, AMSO, etc.  Was I misinformed?  How likely is it that a new member will be posted to ATESS, AETE or one of the other units where actual engineering will take place?  I did mention that these postings might be a source of hard engineering experience. 
 
  I do not appreciate the 'ignorant comments'  remark if it was directed at me.  My profile is clearly filled out, I spoke honestly from my experience and you and anyone else who reads my posts is free to place whatever value on any information I provide as you see fit.  I never passed myself off as anything other than what I am.  If it wasn't for me then disregard.

  The information that you have provided concerning your responsibilities seems to fall mostly under the human, material, and project management umbrella that I posted about.  The AERE officers that I've worked under for the last 6 years here were not frequently deployed, that's not to say it doesn't happen, I just don't see it, I did add the comment "that I'm aware of" in that post.  As techs, we take care of a lot more than just "fixing the aircraft".....  a large part of our time is spent on admin, chasing parts, updating docs and procedures for you guys to sign..... and all that "other stuff".

 
 

Scoobs

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cp140tech said:
    Any base in Canada with aircraft is a possible posting for you......  and probably a few others such as Ottawa etc.  There are few deployments of AERE officers that I'm aware of, and those few are probably sought after.  If we send a large detachment away for a deployment or a big TD, then they might take an AERE.....  otherwise it's just not required.  If an AERE sees combat, something has gone horribly wrong.

    New AERE's end up as Line Servicing Officers, Aircraft Maintenance Support Officers......  that sort of thing.  I work at 14 AMS, there are 3 first line servicing crews..... each crew has an AERE at the Lt/Capt rank as the Line Servicing Officer, and they work the same shift that I do.....  7 on 3 off, 7 on 4 off.  The job is essentially human resources, material resources, and project management from what I've seen.  There is little or no hard engineering performed, perhaps some in Ottawa or with the few evaluation and testing units we have in the Air Force.  You generally don't see much of them, little or no impact is felt when they rotate positions.

aesop081, I didn't have problems with your posts.  Also, please don't call me sir.  I come hear to listen to other people's opinions, blow off some of my own steam, get to know what's going on in the rest of the Air Force, Army, etc.  I'd prefer to just be informal.  Thanks.

cp140tech,

the comment that led me to state "ignorance" is the comment above about an AERE's job is essentially human resources, material resource, and project management.  Also, the comment about little or no hard engineering, perhaps some in Ottawa.  Also, the one that ticked me off the most was, "you generally don't see much of them, little or no impact is felt when they rotate positions".  Perhaps this is the case with the Auroras and I'm not going to spam my fellow AERE's in that community.  My experience is with Tac Hel (427 Tac Hel Sqn from 2001 to 2005, which included trg, for those who are questioning my background).  At Tac Hel units, the AEREs don't sit in their offices.  I made it a point to go onto the floor every single day in order to talk to the guys (no matter how swamped I was), get to know what was going on, get to know how things are at home, get to know when one guy is pissed off because you know his character or nature.  This can't be done by sitting in the office.  I admit that perhaps the use of the word "ignorant" was too harsh or strong, but I want to emphasize posting information based on actual experience, rather than hearsay or what someone views in their limited exposure with an AERE (if this is the case).
The junior AEREs that you spoke to about the P Eng accreditation are incorrect.  The most important thing that you need if you want to get your P Eng is to be supervised (in the chain of command) by an engineer that already has his/her P Eng.  The experience gained as an AERE is applicable towards the P Eng.  Also, having a P Eng in the military is not very useful.  It is very useful in civy land.  It will get you a higher salary in civy land.
His degree in civie eng may not be acceptable to become an AERE.  He will have to check with the Recruiting Centre.  I'm thinking that he might be more suitable for Combat Eng, Airfield Eng, etc.
It is very likely that a person can be posted directly from the AERE course to a hard eng position.  One of my friends was posted directly to ATESS after the same course I was on.  Another had her PhD already and was posted to DTA.  It is possible.  I will give you that the most likely positions are junior positions in Ottawa or at some operational positions.  The op positions depend on how may incumbents are being posted out of their operational units each year.  This number goes up and down.
The Aurora AERE's do not deploy that much.  That is not to say that they can't.  This is your experience, I gather from your last response.  Therefore, you don't have experience with the other fleets (please correct me if I'm wrong).  The other fleets, Hercs, Tac Hel, sometimes Sea Kings, do frequently deploy.  I listed a lot of them in my earlier response.  As I stated, my experience is with Tac Hel and Tac Hel has deployed more than any other fleet in the last 10 years, hands down.  They take an AERE each time this deployment occurs.  Also, this does not take into account the "deployments" within Canada, such as G8 summit, exercises, etc.
As for the comment about "other stuff", would you disagree that the primary job of a tech is to fix the aircraft?  I would never, and I have never said, that an AERE actually fixes an aircraft.  The techs do.  Hands down.  However, all the other stuff that distracts techs from fixing the aircraft needs to be taken care of by another person and that is where the AERE comes in.  My guys/girls would constantly complain to me (and they were justified to do so!) about all the other things that would distract them from doing their primary job.  These included:
-chasing down parts from the silly supply system that the Griffon uses, COOP;
-going to the gas hut, ranges, first aid, dags, all those briefings on the other flavour of the day issues;
-dealing with pilots (some, not all) that had unrealistic expectations on the number of a/c that would be available or how long it would take to get fixed;
-dealing with complex admin issues, such as compassionate leave/travel assistance, C and P, recorded warnings, OTs, CFRs, etc.  This issues I received specific trg on, whereas the Cpl on the floor doesn't necessarily receive this type of trg.  Why not have the person who has been trained to do them, do them?;
My point is that there are far too many things that can distract a tech from doing his or her primary job and I think that you will at least agree with me on that.  Those are the "other things" that I refer to and that you are attempting to twist into something negative.  The reality is that techs do have to do some of these things, in addition to fixing a/c.  I also had to do other things, in addition to my regular duties of D/SAMEO, such as AFSO, AWSO, mbr of Officer's Mess Executive, OSCER, assigned additional tasks by SAMEO or CO, etc.  Unfortunately, we always have the can do attitude in the military.  I always attempted to limit those "other things" or distractions that the techs had in order to keep them on the a/c in order to fix it in order to put serviceable a/c on the board.

My background for those who are questioning it is below.  As I stated above to aesop081, I come to this site in order to listen to other opinions or blow some steam off.  I'm pissed about certain issues like everyone else.  Since I am an officer, would it be okay for me to stand up in front of the troops and blow off steam?  Of course not, that is why I come here.  I leave my opinion, but I do it on stuff that I know about.  If I would have filled out my profile exactly as I will do below, then most people would think, oh, here's another officer or something like that.  So here it is:

-Bachelor of Aerospace Engineering specializing in Propulsion, Aerodynamics, and Vehicle Performance from Carleton U in 1998;
-while in university and as a part time job, entered the Governor General's Foot Guards (GGFG) and did two summers of Changing of the Guard, along with becoming an infantryman.  Was a private, so I understand both sides of the coin;
-after finishing U, went to work in civy land as an eng.  Was bored thick, and rejoined the forces as an AERE in 2000 as a Direct Entry O;
-finished AOBC and then posted to Pet at 427 Tac Hel Sqn as the SAMEO for one year since the current SAMEO went to Bosnia as D/CO and the guy I was replacing went to Bosnia as D/SAMEO.  I was supposed to go to Bosnia prior to this happening, but unfortunately was not sent (even volunteered to go to Bosnia with 408 Sqn);
-volunteered to go as part of Army staff to where the Hercs are operating, was told I was going, then position cancelled on me two days later!;
-became D/SAMEO for remaining two years since a new Maj was posted in;
-currently teaching at the school for AEREs (therefore I know where AEREs are posted right off the course); and
-total service time is 8 years, with two of them being in Army Reserves.

Navymich,

this should resolve the issue you have with my credibility.  Also, please don't question my respect for those who work with me.  As an AERE at a Tac Hel unit, the people that I worked with on a daily basis were 90% techs.  I made many good friends there, including techs, FEs, pilots, etc.  Respect is a two way street.  It is not given, but earned.  I stood my ground for my techs and fought battles with the SAMEO, CO, etc when **** was being done to them.  I remember the arguments that I had with my boss about the silly sports program.  It lasted two hours and at the end I said my peace, but was given my marching orders.  This was done in private, as this is the way it should be when at work and in uniform.  Ask any techs from 427 if I ramrodded them to get ahead/promoted/deployed, etc.  My background as a private and my background in life taught me better than that.  It also taught me to offer my opinion on something that I knew about, and that is what I did.
 

cp140tech

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  We're chewing up a thread with this debate, I apologize to the poor fellow trying to get info on the CF.

  I stand by my comments as they apply to my experience within this work environment, CP 140, I have not been employed as a tech with any other fleet.  I'm sure my comment about impact from AERE's ticked you off, trust me it annoys me much more..... but it's a reality here. 

  Honestly though....  how many AERE officers are PEng's?  We've got AERE's with degrees in Mech, Elec, Aerospace engineering...as well as Space sciences, and Computer science that I know of.

  All this other stuff that you list as an AERE's responsibility is being performed by us.... the real leg work anyway.  I would love to just go to work and troubleshoot and fix the engine.....  such is not the case.  We deal with supply, we take the handovers from the aircrew, administrative issues are handled by our NCO's and those that require a commisioned member to sign are so actioned.  The cpl on the floor isn't doing all of that, but the MCpl, Sgt, WO and so on are.  I've got lots of secondary duties and courses too....  I'm president of our scuba club, I'm a member of the wing community council, I teach first aid, and I'm taking university courses in my spare time, I am not unique..... we all wear lots of hats.

  I would love to see more AERE's out on the floor, talking to us, getting a real feel for what we need to get the job done and planes in the air.  It just does not happen, and that's a shame, most of the guys I work with don't even know who the LSO, AMO, AMSO...etc are.  You're reading my posts too negatively, I've got no problem with the AERE trade...  I wish we interacted with them more.

  I'm not going to post anymore in this thread about this, we're way off topic.  Feel free to PM me if you want to continue this discussion.  Sorry folks for the hijack.
 

Scoobs

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cp140tech,

you're right.  We hijacked the thread.  Besides, I've got to get offline and go prepare a lesson.

Some info for the prospective AERE,

go to the Recruiting Centre and ask if your degree is suitable for AERE.  I honestly don't think it is.  A Civil Eng degree is more suitable for jobs like Combat Eng (Army), Airfield Eng (Air Force) or maybe one other of the other 3 engineering officer jobs in the CF.  Also, I believe that the Eng recruitment program is still in effect.  The last time I looked into it, the program gives DEO engineering officers $40,000 for signing up.  You get the first $25,000 after completion of basic officer trg and then one year later you get the remaining amount of $15,000.  Sweet!  Unfortunately, I missed it by one year and a half!  I came in too early for the program to affect me.  Man, what a kicker in the pants!
 

SupersonicMax

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You can apply AERE with a Civ Eng degree.  In fact, any engineering / science background will do the trick.

Max
 

tyoung

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Wow I didnt realise i would start such a contreversy.  Anyways I dont know where you guys got that im doing civil?  Im currently completeing my mechanical degree at Mcmaster.  To clarify most new AERE are stationed in a supervisor role at an air wing?  Sorry but i kinda got lost in the arguments.  I do have another question though (sorry to keep harping on the overseas bit).  Are the international deployments so sought after that you would volunteer for them?

Thanks again
 
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