Afghan Detainee Mega Thread

[George Wallace]

I am reading this as the Law Students and Law Professors, as activists, from U of O, participated in the background researching articles for the Arar defence.  This dinner is a recognition of their actions and a fund raiser for the U of O scholarship in honour of Arar-Mazigh.  The Professor having an interest in the politics of that region, without a doubt was a contributor and/or mentor to Law Students involved in the Arar defence.

The dinner will recognize the contributions of a handful of journalists, activists, lawyers and MP’s, who were instrumental in affecting real change in Maher and Monia’s ordeal. Additionally, members from Muslim communities across Canada will be present at the event.

The February 14 dinner will mark the inauguration and establishment of the Arar-Mazigh Scholarship, offered through the University of Ottawa, Faculty of Law. Proceeds from the dinner will go towards the scholarship, and will be awarded to students making significant contributions in the fields of human rights and civil liberties.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Cold? Bored? Here's something to occupy your time. Access to Information Requests (AIR). Here's a hypothetical. You ask Customs Border Services to mail copies of all arrest reports in which officers injured travelers they arrested Windsor ON in January 2007. You receive a reply that two officers indicate in one report of arresting an individual with a 357 Magnum after he pointed it at them. They report they pepper sprayed him and used their batons to subdue him. He was hit on the head and across the face, he received a cut above his left eye and two teeth were knocked out. The officers explained that the individual, (6'4' 230lbs.), was uncooperative even after being subdued and handcuffed. He kicked one officer in the groin and hurt his own wrists trying to free himself from the 'cuffs. The officers explained that after being treated by medics the suspect was turned over to local police. Normal practice before the court appearance.

Now your fun starts. You ask for the name of the officers, pictures of suspect and his name. You receive a reply that due to privacy laws this information can't be given out. Now you have your "proof" the suspect was abused. Why are the refusing to name the people involved? Where are the pictures? How can you believe it was his left eye that was cut? Why was he turned over to police so quickly? You demand an investigation of abuse on this individual and are told that yes your complaint will be investigated because such charges are so serious that they are all investigated whether they are true or not. Now you have them on the run. Isn't the fact that they are investigating proof that something is wrong? Why wasn't the public told about this abuse in January? Is the Minister aware of this abuse? If not why not? Isn't he aware of what goes on at border crossings? Can Customs Officers investigate themselves? They are a team after all aren't they? Is the media aware of this "abuse"?

See how easy it is? With any luck the media will pick this up and you'll have your 15 minutes of fame, post it on Youtube and you'll get 30.

Next, ask Fisheries and Oceans how many lobsters are sold in markets with one claw missing. Pictures please..

BANG on!  Great example..... 

Like statistics and bikinis, what ATIP request responses reveal is interesting, but what they don't reveal can be vital.

Again, show us what you got, media or professor (like that'll ever happen).

 

[cplcaldwell]

show us what you got, media or professor

Or prod them a little bit...

Paul Koring to host an online conversation at the Globe and Mail website at noon

 

[Babbling Brooks]

Or prod them a little bit...

Paul Koring to host an online conversation at the Globe and Mail website at noon

I took your advice - here are my questions:

Mr. Koring, why does the "working hypothesis" (Prof. Attaran's words, not mine) of an activist vehemently opposed to Canada's detainee policies merit front-page coverage in Canada's National Newspaper for three days running now? If the allegations of abuse by CF members prove false, will your paper continue to milk the story by switching to the detainee transfer agreement between Canada and the Afghan government, the issue Prof. Attaran has been raising for at least a year now with almost no publicity? Why does Professor Attaran's account of a phone spat with a CF Public Affairs officer merit an entire story of its own in the G&M, and is this article not itself an attempt to intimidate the CF and anyone else who would question your motives or those of Prof. Attaran? Why have you and Prof. Attaran not publicly posted the documents obtained under Access to Information for the public to review, instead insisting on interpreting them for us yourselves? Do you not feel it important to advise the public of your own opinion of Canadian detainee policy so that we can understand the perspective from which you are presenting this information? Do you know why Prof. Attaran, as a lawyer who first made the official complaint that sparked the DND investigations would be calling the Provost Marshal (the CF's own "police chief") late at night in the first place? Do you feel that call by a complainant lawyer involved in any other internal investigation would be appropriate? Given that Prof. Attaran has stated publicly both that "It is inexcusable that they [the CF] have not investigated" and "In light of what happened a decade ago in Somalia, I very much doubt that [the military] should investigate internally," do you not worry that he won't be satisfied by any answer from DND? And if so, why do you feel his intransigent and extreme point of view deserves national attention and a combative and confrontational journalistic approach from you?

They cut you off at 2000 characters, so that's all I was able to get in.  I'll be interested to see if it gets through their editorial filter...watch and shoot.

 

[cplcaldwell]

Well done BB, I will tune in with bated breath ...

 

[niner domestic]

here you go, the good professor is now crying foul at being beseiged by opposing correspondence to his "quest".  Interestingly, is the last paragraph:

He makes no apologies for this somewhat unorthodox academic practice.

"I have not noticed it is improper to rely on one of the most, I think, essential institutions, of a free society -- and that is its press -- to make policy re-evaluation, and ultimately policy change, happen."

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20070209.wdetaineeprofile09/BNStory/specialComment

I think even LSUC is going to have a tough time letting this process slide by. Cases argued in the media are never good law, policy or government. 

 

[cplcaldwell]

Cases argued in the media are never good law, policy or government.

 


Quite right, but they do offer recreation to the mob between lynchings....

 

[Babbling Brooks]

Boy, they sure took the shears to my questions.  I've posted a parsing of Koring's responses here: http://toyoufromfailinghands.blogspot.com/2007/02/you-want-conversation-you-got-my-half.html

I believe both Koring and Attaran have an agenda: they think the Canadian detainee transfer policy is wrong, and they're using this manufactured controversy to push their pet issue into the limelight.

Neither one seems to care one bit that they're dragging the Canadian soldier through the mud to do it.  Or that their stunt might well unfairly reduce public support for the Afghan mission and potentially condemn millions of ordinary Afghans to a more brutish and short existence by hastening Canada's withdrawal from the beleaguered nation.

What a couple of selfish turds.

 

[3rd Herd]

BANG on!  Great example..... 

Like statistics and bikinis, what ATIP request responses reveal is interesting, but what they don't reveal can be vital.

Absolutely!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. They only lead to more interesting information searches at oblique angle's and "there is more than one way to skin a cat". I also find it interesting how he got the info so quick while several of us on the site have been waitting for up two two years for archival material/ATIP. They claim understaffing.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I notice that most people that complain about the Parisian scandal in Iraq are totally ignorant of what went on there prior to the Americans. I guess mass graves and electrical torture of gentails, pulling of fingernails and sodomy by Iraqi on Iraqis are just to boring to talk about.

Gee my uncle spent 5 years in a German POW camp without any hope of release until liberated by Allied troops. Also why don't those same Human rights crusaders go to the various AQ breeding grounds and try to convince them to sign the Geneva Convention so our guys will get decent treatment if captured?

If I had to choose which nation to held as a miltary prisoner of war or similar, it would be the US.

 

[North Star]

I think we (mbrs of the CF) need to take a chill pill on this one.

1) The professor has an agenda. Yes, big deal. He got his hands on some ambiguous stuff, and now he's pushing himself on the front pages of newspapers trying to shamelessly promote himself on the backs of soldiers. However, this is the norm. People always will use the CF as a tool for their own agenda: remember the "Soldiers with guns" ads? He's carrying on in the lefty-Canadian tradition of criticizing the CF without thought to the consequences. We should be used to it by now.

2) An investigation can't hurt. I doubt anyone will be found at fault, given the high standards and paranoia we have concerning detainees and the trifling nature of the injuries sustained by the three detainees. At the end, all I suspect will be left standing is a bill to Johnny Canuck taxpayer. Heck, it may even give one of the troops being investigated a reason to sue somebody as the number of investigations seems quite excessive and tantamount to harassment...

3) It's possible that any one of the three detainees may be dead - not by out hand, but by the usual things that kill people in Afghanistan. If that's the case, expect more headlines and sensationalism. Stay calm and simply mutter "S$%t happens".

4) Expect that people supportive of the CF will step up to the plate and defend us. Embrace those who do a good job - reject those who get too enthusiastic. I already read one article that was supportive.

5) This will blow over. I mean, come on. The Globe and Mail will get back to harping on Kyoto soon enough. Defence issues in general bore Canadians. The National Post will support the CF to the hilt, as will Sun Media. CTV and CBC will only hang onto the story if the bureaucratic details of who's investigating who doesn't give them a headache, and the CBC is so heavily monitored by pro-CF bloggers that if they don't paint a fair picture they'll pull in the Ombudsman. As for CanWest, see NP.

So relax. Drink a beer. Sit back, and watch our tax dollars at work.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

The problem is that no matter how much the Government and the forces do to clear their name, it won't be good enough, because we are always hiding something according to this type, there was a cover up some 15 years ago, so there must be a cover now is the way they think. This will be use to poison peoples minds, regardless how much or how little validity it has. I find the radical anti-war, government, Conservatives types firmly believe the end justifies the means.

 

[North Star]

Colin P - I agree, but to quote a friend in politics, "if there's no chance in heck they'll give us their vote, why even try to convert them?" Sure, the anti-crowd will moan and wail, but they always will. The average Canadian has already written them off.

 

[Cloud Cover]

I think even LSUC is going to have a tough time letting this process slide by. Cases argued in the media are never good law, policy or government.   

You can forget the whole LSUC angle. The complaints officers/discipline committee will simply seek direction from the more powerful benchers on this matter. I'd be surprised if they dont make special arrangements to protect him and throw a recognition dinner in support of his efforts.   

 

[MarkOttawa]

Damian Brooks of The Torch will be on The World Tonight with Rob Breakenridge, CHQR, Calgary, at 2040 EST tonight.
http://www.am770chqr.com/station/blog_the_world_tonight.cfm
http://toyoufromfailinghands.blogspot.com/2007/02/you-want-conversation-you-got-my-half.html

Listen live.  Disclosure: I also post at The Torch.

Mark
Ottawa

 

[The Bread Guy]

Just wrapped up, and sounded great - well done!

Just curious - I've been skimming a ton of material on this, but I haven't seen where Dr. A. said nothing the CF can do will satisfy him.

Thx, and keep on spreading the word!

 

[Babbling Brooks]

Thanks Tony.  That was a little nervewracking - my first radio interview.  As far as Attaran's contradictory statements, Bruce Rolston at Flit juxtaposed them quite nicely here: http://www.snappingturtle.net/flit/archives/2007_02_08.html#006056

"It is inexcusable that they [the military] have not investigated. This is not right."
--Afghan detainees' rights advocate and law professor Amir Attaran, Feb. 7, on allegations that an Afghan detained at an apparent bomb-making facility received superficial injuries while resisting attempts to take him into custody.

"In light of what happened a decade ago in Somalia, I very much doubt that [the military] should investigate internally."
--Attaran again, Feb. 8, upon hearing that the military had immediately launched separate criminal and administrative inquiries into his allegations

.

 

[MarkOttawa]

Babbling:

+1

Mark
Ottawa

 

[The Bread Guy]

Thanks Tony.  That was a little nervewracking - my first radio interview.  As far as Attaran's contradictory statements, Bruce Rolston at Flit juxtaposed them quite nicely here: http://www.snappingturtle.net/flit/archives/2007_02_08.html#006056
.

You sounded BANG on - smooth, convincing.

Live radio is always harder - in spite of the fact that you can do the interview in your underwear.... 

 

[Babbling Brooks]

Tony, I also forgot to mention Attaran's remarks on CPAC this past Tuesday evening, where he characterized the CF investigations as "worthless" and "of no value to me."  It's pretty clear to me from those remarks that he won't be satisfied by any course the CF takes on this issue.