After Ruling, Hispanics Flee an Alabama Town

[GAP]

I think this has huge implications in the offing......this is just one state, and more are likely to follow....

After Ruling, Hispanics Flee an Alabama Town
By CAMPBELL ROBERTSON Published: October 3, 2011
Article Link

LBERTVILLE, Ala. — The vanishing began Wednesday night, the most frightened families packing up their cars as soon as they heard the news.

They left behind mobile homes, sold fully furnished for a thousand dollars or even less. Or they just closed up and, in a gesture of optimism, left the keys with a neighbor. Dogs were fed one last time; if no home could be found, they were simply unleashed.

Two, 5, 10 years of living here, and then gone in a matter of days, to Tennessee, Illinois, Oregon, Florida, Arkansas, Mexico — who knows? Anywhere but Alabama.

The exodus of Hispanic immigrants began just hours after a federal judge in Birmingham upheld most provisions of the state’s far-reaching immigration enforcement law.

The judge, Sharon Lovelace Blackburn, upheld the parts of the law allowing state and local police to ask for immigration papers during routine traffic stops, rendering most contracts with illegal immigrants unenforceable and requiring schools to ascertain the immigration status of children at registration time.

When Judge Blackburn was finished, Alabama was left with what the governor called “the strongest immigration law in this country.” It went into effect immediately, though her ruling is being appealed by the Justice Department and a coalition of civil rights groups.
More on link

 

[cupper]

This in nothing new, just another state trying to turn up the heat on the Feds to start enforcing the laws.

Arizona brought in similar laws earlier this year, and parts have been put on hold pending a challenge about constitutionality in the courts.

The Virginia county I live in brought in new policies for the police to check status of everyone they stopped. When it was finally enacted, the requirement was tightened up to anyone arrested.

However, this was brought in the same summer the housing bubble burst, and with the exodus of both undocumented and legal Hispanics due to fears of a crackdown, the housing market plunged to rock bottom.

Not saying that this was the cause of the housing meltdown here, but it did have a significant impact.

 

[VIChris]

The chickens are coming home to roost. A good portion of the American economy has run because of under the table work done by thousands of illegal immigrants. Now that their economy has come almost entirely unglued, there are more and more American citizens willing to pick up the undesirable jobs previously done by border jumpers. It's going to get rough for everyone, but it will be the various levels of government that have turned a blind eye to the issue for decades that will have the ugly job of cleaning this mess up, and forcing many hard working folks out into the cold.

 

[cupper]

The chickens are coming home to roost. A good portion of the American economy has run because of under the table work done by thousands of illegal immigrants. Now that their economy has come almost entirely unglued, there are more and more American citizens willing to pick up the undesirable jobs previously done by border jumpers. It's going to get rough for everyone, but it will be the various levels of government that have turned a blind eye to the issue for decades that will have the ugly job of cleaning this mess up, and forcing many hard working folks out into the cold.

If this were true we wouldn't have 9% unemployment (or 16% depending on the real numbers). Americans do not want to work the menial labour type jobs, for the low wages that come with these jobs. Period.

Fact is, the so-called underground economy had nothing to do with the economic situation the US finds itself in today.

Experience has been that laws like this end up becoming more burdensome for the state and local governments, due to the increased costs of holding people in jails until ICE finally shows up to take them away. Costs to the lower governments are supposed to be recovered, but the Feds are slow in payments due to the budgetary gridlock that is going on in Congress.

Majority of law enforcement groups are against enforcement being dumped on them because it creates trust issues within the immigrant communities, making crime investigation and crime prevention, the main focus of their job that much more difficult. And it takes funds, resources and time away from these same jobs.

Case in point, the Police Chief in my local county told the county executives that the new policies would be difficult to enforce, make the basic law enforcement function more difficult to carry out, raise a wall between the police and the immigrant community, and be a drain on already strained police funding.

Long and short of this matter is that we are going into another election cycle in the US (not that we ever left, they just blur one into the next). Immigration is a hot button topic, used to galvanize the voting base for either party, one pro-immigration, on anti-immigration. I watched it  happen in 2008, then die a quick death after the November election. Just another cycle to bring it up as an issue to mobilize the bases. A year from now it will drop of the radar faster than pole ratings of GOP presidential nominees. 

 

[The Bread Guy]

If this were true we wouldn't have 9% unemployment (or 16% depending on the real numbers). Americans do not want to work the menial labour type jobs, for the low wages that come with these jobs. Period.

Fact is, the so-called underground economy had nothing to do with the economic situation the US finds itself in today.

This may be true in a macro sense, but I'm guessing in certain areas, business and chambers of commerce will start wringing their hands shortly if Americans don't show up to do the low-wage work being abandoned by illegals leaving.

 

[VIChris]

Fact is, the so-called underground economy had nothing to do with the economic situation the US finds itself in today.

I didn't say it was the cause, I said that it is going to be hurt by the economic situation. Especially in light of recent crackdowns.

 

[cupper]

This may be true in a macro sense, but I'm guessing in certain areas, business and chambers of commerce will start wringing their hands shortly if Americans don't show up to do the low-wage work being abandoned by illegals leaving.

All that these laws really achieve from the POV of undocumented workers is they end up moving into adjacent jurisdictions which have not brought in similar laws. Here locally they moved into the next county. In Arizona they moved to Colorado.

Overall, the state of the US economy has sunk to the point where there is now a net decrease in migration across the border from Mexico. The lack of available jobs is the biggest factor, although tougher border coverage, and the violence in the border regions of Mexico have also played a part as well.

My feeling is that sometime in the next 4 to 5 years you will see an overhaul of the US immigration laws to make entry for migrant workers easier, and streamline the process for obtaining employment based permanent residency. Both parties know that immigration reform will gain votes from the Hispanic community. From personal experience I know how painful and surreal the US immigration process can be. And as a Canadian I had some advantages over other immigrants, and it still took a ridiculously long time. 

 

[FlyingDutchman]

My feeling is that sometime in the next 4 to 5 years you will see an overhaul of the US immigration laws to make entry for migrant workers easier, and streamline the process for obtaining employment based permanent residency. Both parties know that immigration reform will gain votes from the Hispanic community. From personal experience I know how painful and surreal the US immigration process can be. And as a Canadian I had some advantages over other immigrants, and it still took a ridiculously long time.

I disagree that there will be a reform.  9/11 has probably put a stop on making any immigration to the states easier, especially if the person is from a rather violent nation.

 

[cupper]

I disagree that there will be a reform.  9/11 has probably put a stop on making any immigration to the states easier, especially if the person is from a rather violent nation.

If this were just a case of people coming in from overseas I would agree. But the huge undocumented Hispanic population is the 800 lb gorilla.

Immigration reform is coming. It's too big an issue down here not to be ignored. And with the growth of the Hispanic population creating a larger and larger voting block, neither party can afford to sweep the issue into the desk drawer.

The problem is the vocal conservative minority that want the border secured before consideration of reform.

 

[Brad Sallows]

>But the huge undocumented Hispanic populatio

Undocumented?  None of them hold driver's licences, or are in the database of a local hospital?

I think the term you are looking for is "illegal alien".

 

[Redeye]

>But the huge undocumented Hispanic populatio

Undocumented?  None of them hold driver's licences, or are in the database of a local hospital?

I think the term you are looking for is "illegal alien".

Undocumented is the conventionally used term in several jurisdictions - as in, not possessing valid immigration documents.

Good discussion though on how this law (and ones like it) are going to have a lot of unintended consequences.

And still no sign of Americans lining up to pick lettuce or gut hogs.

 

[cupper]

>But the huge undocumented Hispanic populatio

Undocumented?  None of them hold driver's licences, or are in the database of a local hospital?

I think the term you are looking for is "illegal alien".

No.

The term I am using is a generally accepted legal term.

Yes it may be PC, but as a legal, documented  immigrant to the US I choose to use this term.

And yes, many have legally obtained drivers licenses, and many may be listed in a hospital database (which is irrelevant), but this has nothing to do whether they are documented or undocumented. To be documented, you must have legal presence in the United States. Only USCIS can make that determination.

 

[cupper]

The latest move by the DOJ to block the enforcement.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/us-justice-department-asks-federal-appeals-court-to-block-enforcement-of-ala-immigration-law/2011/10/07/gIQATEruSL_story.html

The federal government asked an appeals court Friday to stop Alabama officials from enforcing a strict immigration law that has already driven Hispanic students from public schools and migrant workers from towns, warning that it opens the door to discrimination against even legal residents.

They worry the law is likely to expose legal residents “to new difficulties in routine dealings” and could force federal authorities to deal with low-risk immigrants rather than the most dangerous criminals. And, they say, the attempt to drive illegal immigrants “off the grid” could disrupt both diplomatic relationships and national policy.

“Other states and their citizens are poorly served by the Alabama policy, which seeks to drive aliens from Alabama rather than achieve cooperation with the federal government to resolve a national problem,” the filing said.

 

[Redeye]

The other huge problem is it will create friction between police and those communities - and make them prey to criminals. People who are undocumented will be far less likely to report crimes against them, because they'll be exposed to the risk of being deported. It's also a huge waste of time, diverting police resources from fighting real crime.

 

[cupper]

The other huge problem is it will create friction between police and those communities - and make them prey to criminals. People who are undocumented will be far less likely to report crimes against them, because they'll be exposed to the risk of being deported. It's also a huge waste of time, diverting police resources from fighting real crime.

That was one of the biggest arguments the Chief of the local police force made during county council debates when bringing in their immigration crackdown 3 years ago.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

All that these laws really achieve from the POV of undocumented workers is they end up moving into adjacent jurisdictions which have not brought in similar laws. Here locally they moved into the next county. In Arizona they moved to Colorado.

Overall, the state of the US economy has sunk to the point where there is now a net decrease in migration across the border from Mexico. The lack of available jobs is the biggest factor, although tougher border coverage, and the violence in the border regions of Mexico have also played a part as well.

My feeling is that sometime in the next 4 to 5 years you will see an overhaul of the US immigration laws to make entry for migrant workers easier, and streamline the process for obtaining employment based permanent residency. Both parties know that immigration reform will gain votes from the Hispanic community. From personal experience I know how painful and surreal the US immigration process can be. And as a Canadian I had some advantages over other immigrants, and it still took a ridiculously long time.

This has been the big problem, a failed legal system to enter both as a guest worker and as a long term citizen. My friend moved there, he had a green card, but his wife could not get legal status, despite running a successful real estate business, they pulled the plug and moved to Mexico. They are great people and would have made good citzen.

 

[Redeye]

The latest move by the DOJ to block the enforcement.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/us-justice-department-asks-federal-appeals-court-to-block-enforcement-of-ala-immigration-law/2011/10/07/gIQATEruSL_story.html

The federal government asked an appeals court Friday to stop Alabama officials from enforcing a strict immigration law that has already driven Hispanic students from public schools and migrant workers from towns, warning that it opens the door to discrimination against even legal residents.

They worry the law is likely to expose legal residents “to new difficulties in routine dealings” and could force federal authorities to deal with low-risk immigrants rather than the most dangerous criminals. And, they say, the attempt to drive illegal immigrants “off the grid” could disrupt both diplomatic relationships and national policy.

“Other states and their citizens are poorly served by the Alabama policy, which seeks to drive aliens from Alabama rather than achieve cooperation with the federal government to resolve a national problem,” the filing said.

The reality is that they have to get on with reform, because their economy depends on it. American kids simply aren't lining up to do the jobs that migrant workers currently do. And even those migrant workers' kids don't want to do them - they want to get educated, establish themselves, and do better than their parents did. I think that's probably a universal human trait, really.

I have no problem speculating that the vast, vast majority of them are decent, honest, hardworking people who just want to improve their lot in life, and they know that the American economy offers that opportunity. If they can't find it in their home countries, they'll move, it's that simple. It's sad that it's become some massive political football, but the way forward is to fix a very, very broken system.

 

[cupper]

It seems the higher courts are stepping in on a couple of issues with the law.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/us-appeals-court-rules-ala-officers-can-detain-illegal-immigrants-under-new-law-for-now/2011/10/14/gIQATbHEkL_story.html?hpid=z1

A federal appeals court on Friday blocked a key part of Alabama’s law that requires schools to check the immigration status of students, temporarily weakening what was considered the toughest immigration law in the nation.

The 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals also blocked a part of the law that allows authorities to charge immigrants who do not carry documents proving their legal status. The three-judge panel let stand a provision that allows police to detain immigrants that are suspected of being in the country illegally.

 

[cupper]

It seems that this may be a law of unintended consequences.

Either that or there's a real big problem with German Auto Execs sneaking into the US illegally.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/11/22/us/alabama-immigration-arrest/index.html

Auto exec's arrest a new flashpoint in Alabama's immigration debate

Police in Tuscaloosa, Alabama, pulled the man over because of a problem with the tag on the rental car he was driving, and then detained him when he didn't have proper identification on hand, according to Alabama's homeland security director.

For state Sen. Dick Brewbaker -- one of the law's backers -- the arrest shows that officers aren't racially profiling and that the state is enforcing the same types of requirements other countries have.

"This police officer in Tuscaloosa, he sure didn't pull that guy over because he looked Hispanic," Brewbaker told CNN. "He was just enforcing the law."

But opponents fighting the state's tough new measure say the arrest shows that the new law will scare businesses away from Alabama rather than create jobs.

"They have a beautiful Mercedes plant here in Alabama, and then you go and arrest the executive from Germany that comes here. I mean, do you want the jobs and the commerce, or do you want the stain that comes with discriminatory legislation?" said U.S. Rep. Luis Gutierrez, a Democrat from Illinois who was in Alabama Monday to protest the law.