AIR CASEVAC in AFGHANISTAN

[medicineman]

Armymedic, can you not push for your aboved suggestion. ie based on rank you get a specific qualicatio? I like that idea and think it would work wonders in the CF.

The powers that be still haven`t come to grips with getting the Junior/Middle Techs up to the PCP level, much less ACP or CCP.  As it stands, our 6A course is little more than a taste of basic staff work without any real medical focus other than in Med Regulating and Ops Planning.  At least at my level (bitter and twisted as it is  ;D) it seems that the vision just isn`t there beyond the tip of the nose.  Armymedic - what are your thoughts?

As for the Brits and or Dutch doing the CASEVAC, I agree with AM.  The Brits have their stuff in order, and unless things have changed since I got my AirEvac wings, the Dutch crews all still have to do our course in Trenton - there were a few on my course in fact, so I`d trust them as well.  The Dutch also had a Role 2+ in Kabul while I was there and I always found them to be pretty switched on medically.

My $.02.

MM

 

[kj_gully]

Beautiful stuff, and just about what I have been expecting. I think it is important to mention for anyone outside the convesation who is viewing this that there is a Huge difference between CF air medevac, for which there is a course, and a specialist badge, and which we all have recently seen utilized with the repat of our Canadian casualties to Edmonton, and this requirement of in theater Casevac, from the battlefield to surgical steel. Armymedic & medicineman, would it be fair to say that CFMG has lost the prehospital & trauma focus for medics, and put more emphasis on clinical skill? I have been away from the Army for 10 years, but it seems that it may still be difficult to get medics out of the UMS/ Base hosp? has the PCP program improved "your" abilities in Trauma care? We are required annual competency training in ER/OR, do you have a similar requirement to maintain your qual? Is there any thought/value to have a formallized ambulance "ride along" program for medics in Canada?

 

[Armymedic]

would it be fair to say that CFMG has lost the prehospital & trauma focus for medics, and put more emphasis on clinical skill?

has the PCP program improved "your" abilities in Trauma care? We are required annual competency training in ER/OR, do you have a similar requirement to maintain your qual? Is there any thought/value to have a formallized ambulance "ride along" program for medics in Canada?

Answering direct to the quotes: I would say we are getting away from clinical and more into the prehospital care, esp for QL 3 Med Techs. They currently have no role in a CDu, UMS, or MIR.

The new MCSP (maint of skills) is pushing for biannual training in outside agencies (amb ridealong, ER, OR rotations). The program is following what you're (SAR Techs) doing as well as the higher med professionals do in CFMG. It is improving.

Also ref airmedevac course with the badge et all:
That course deals with fixed wing strategic air medevac, and deals very little with tactical (read helo) evac. In fact, while it would be benificial for a med tech who is in the helo to be airmedevac qualified, anyone who is familiar with aircraft emergency drills (parachute qualified for instance) and familiar with the equipment can do the job in the tactical senario (and I have.)

 

[medicineman]

Hard to say if it's improving trauma care as it were - though the focus is more on pre-hospital care.  Alot would depend on where you're doing your ride outs and such, as contrary to popular belief, paramedics don't live and breathe trauma day in and out  (unless you live in Detroit, LA, bad days in Toronto or Montreal or Vancouver).  A great majority of calls are still for medical problems - if that weren't the case, there wouldn't be the likes of BTLS or PHTLS out there.  Even with my tour in Croatia, where we had alot of mine strikes, the big thing we did was still mainly primary care medicine with some emergent stuff like having to suture up people and such.

I think they ought to add TCCC or TEMS into the program at an early point though - if you get in your head to think like a civvy medic with bells and whistles handy, you may have a hard time adapting to the "real" world when the fertilizer hits the ventilator.  The other thing they have to bring back in training is the old Phase 2 in a medical facility for at least a month, that way they get more clinical exposure and get a chance to develop some clinical instincts and start listening to them.  The extra clinical exposure would give them a chance to see sick people and see the illnesses evolve and variations on some of those illnesses.

MM

 

[jonno47]

Hi guys. Apologies if I am coming in a bit late on this one and I apologise if I seem to be promoting a product, but I'm interested in your comments anyway. My company has just introduced the world's smallest and lightest casevac system which is beginning to make an impression the defence market and I'm interested in getting it to where it should be used - in the field helping to save lives. If you want to contact me offline I can direct you to our website where you can get an idea of the product and give me your opinion. I must stress that I'm not selling it direct to individuals as such, but am interested in bulk supply to bona fide defence and rescue organisations. So your Med branch might be interested.
It's designed to fit in your webbing and offer an immediate method of getting a cas out of danger and on to the next stage of their treatment, so it helps to save time.
Just for info: I'm a Brit, have served in Bosnia and other places (with some of your colleagues as well) and my experience includes Fd Amb. I'm still on our Reservist list so I think I can speak with some experience.
Thanks for reading - sorry for the commercial, but saving lives sometimes transcends material rules...sort of!
Regards to all
Jonno47

 

[GINge!]

One thing that needs to change is our current medical evac doctrine. We still teach and practice the cold war models of evac, by ground from CCP to UMS to Fd Amb staging and BMS facilities, to the fd hosp. Currently in theater, its point of injury right to fd hosp, by air or by ground dependant on priority. There is a whole bunch of attitude that needs to change.

Unfortunately, this is still the case.

I am just finishing the BFHS Course and there was no mention of how current evac is conducted. The only training on evac is a simple medical estimate that involves the siting of AXP, ARP, etc, in the typical CMBG vs Granovia defensive posture. The only practical mention of Air CASEVAC (which btw is regularly referred to as both Air MEDEVAC and Aeromedical Evacuation, when in all cases it is a CH-146 - I digress)..the only mention of Air CASEVAC is that we have to notionally site an HLZ when deploying the UMS(-).

I think it would be hugely worthwhile if someone with experience in AStan would be willing to lend their services as a guest speaker at CFMSS for the BFHSC serieals to tell us what the 'real' world is like. There are at least 3 offrs slated to Fd Amb positions, and none have seen a Fd Amb deployed on the ground, or worked with a UMS or Amb Pl staffed medics. This is not a slam against CFMSS  - they are doing the best they can with what they have. I'm just curious who is responsible for updating med doctrine? Do we have HCA/PA/MD/RN/Med tech anywhere on DAD/DAT staff?

PS: FWIW, the CDR I was mentioning earlier has not yet been written, however, I managed to turn the subject into an essay for the Health Services Management course and nailed the A+; so a huge belated thanks to everyone who assisted me on that topic.

 

[kj_gully]

Well, I am going to resusitate this Thread from "back in the day" to illustrate that I am not as foolish as I may have seemed. More importantly, by far though is to ask about the CASEVAC training that is being provided to CF medical personnell, as reported in Maple Leaf Recently.http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/Commun/ml-fe/article-eng.asp?id=5629 Does anyone in here know about it? I would like to receive more aeromedical training than I have up to now as someone who "routinely treats patients in a helicopter" or however it was put in the article. I believe that this training may be more beneficial han the traditional aeromedical training given to the Air evac teams.

 

[Cansky]

One of my cpl's just returned from this course last week.  I will get further info and posted after the long weekend.  What I do know is it's a week long training.  Encompassing both day and night flying excercises.  More to follow.
Kirsten