Air Crew Selection Centre

[Joe Blow]

Hi There -

Can anyone tune me in to what I might expect at the air crew selection centre? 

 

[pipstah]

You going there soon? 

 

[Zoomie]

Unfortunately the testing that is done at ACS is confidential in nature.  It would give someone an un-fair advantage over another if the testing parameters were discussed here.

With that in mind - generalities will have to do.  Expect to "fly" a type of simulator where your ability to follow instructions in 3 dimensions will be accurately gauged. Also expect a myriad of intense mental questions - Google search for IQ tests and do all of them.

 

[Joe Blow]

Pipstah: - Wish I could say I was...   I still have to do my fitness test, interview...   all that.   Paperwork is in for Air Nav. though.

Thanks Zoomie: - I like those IQ tests..   I like the MENSA mental puzzles..   So that's good to hear!   I suppose it would make sense to bone up on my algebra and physics too... Thanks for the pointer.   Anything else you can add would be appreciated.

 

[bobs28]

when you are graded on the simulator, do you people find that they evaluate you as someone who hasnt flown before, or do you reccomend i try to get some flight experience before going to the Air Crew Selection

 

[casing]

Take the following for what it's worth.  I have not attended the air crew selection centre, however I was looking into Air Nav at one point so I did extensive research into it.

For the simulator they test you on it is not a requirement that you have any flight experience whatsoever.  As stated earlier, the purpose is to test your progressive learning ability in a 3-dimensional environment.  So you will need to build upon what you learn each time you get tested in it and your progression in this is what is measured.

By the way, why are Air Nav candidates tested in the simulator if those particular tests are not considered anyway?  Seems like a waste of $$ to me.  But then I haven't the slightest idea on what the costs are to run these tests.

 

[Pieman]

As stated earlier, the purpose is to test your progressive learning ability in a 3-dimensional environment.

why are Air Nav candidates tested in the simulator if those particular tests are not considered anyway?

Just speculating here, but wouldn't an Air Nav need a exceptional spacial ability? Sounds like that might be a good test for it.

I applied for AirNav, and man I am getting some excited about the idea since the new choppers are coming!!

 

[saintjoseph]

I am proof that it is possible to pass air crew selection without any flying experience. The only preparation I had was buying a few hours on a simulator at a local flight school - which I recommend. It was a pretty stressful three days in the simulator, and they never really tell you how you are doing until you find out if you passed or failed. The success rate is fairly low.

One thing to be sure to brush up on...grade 11 mathematics!! Long division and stuff. I figured 4 university calculus course would serve me well on the math exams...man was I wrong. I believe there is 3 Air Nav tests and I failed the math one. Apparently the success rate for Air Nav is even lower than it is for pilot at Air Crew Selection.

 

[Garbageman]

Going for Air Nav doesn't require that you attend Aircrew Selection in Trenton - the written test can be done locally at your Recruiting Centre (you don't go in the simulator for Air Nav, only for pilot).  You will have to attend an aircrew medical in Toronto though (1-2 days).

 

[revy]

I am proof that it is possible to pass air crew selection without any flying experience. The only preparation I had was buying a few hours on a simulator at a local flight school - which I recommend...

How many hours would you recommend? Do you recommend training in a particular simulator or particular simulated aircraft? What about in-flight and/or ground training? Suggested?

 

[Armageddon]

Flight sims can never hurt but I went there a couple years ago and I never had any prior experience or practice.  Just listen to what they say and don't second guess yourself with the tests, make a choice and stick with it.  Other than that just relax, if you knoe it you do and if not you gave it your best shot.

 

[eliminator]

I'm not too fond of the Air Crew Rejection Center, and neither are many of my friends. I had a civi private pilots licence, but became a statistic at ACSC, as did several of my amigos. Now, I have to get a commercial licence if I want to try again. Ah well, life as an AEC doesnt seem all that bad. I'd rather be overseas flying in AWACS then waiting 2+years in the backlog to get wings.

 

[mdh]

Eliminator,

Can't you try again without doing a commercial license? I thought ACS offered a second chance to candidates who failed? Or is it a case that if you have a PPL they require an upgrading in credentials to even be considered again?

 

[Zoomie]

I'm not too fond of the Air Crew Rejection Center, and neither are many of my friends. I had a civi private pilots licence, but became a statistic at ACSC, as did several of my amigos.

That sucks for you and your friends, try not to dwell on the past - every MOC in the CF has its own exciting challenges and rewards.  I know many who love their job in ATC.

Ah well, life as an AEC doesnt seem all that bad. I'd rather be overseas flying in AWACS then waiting 2+years in the backlog to get wings.

Good spirit - however the backlog for Cornwall is rather long too, depending on the time of year.  It also is a much tougher trade when it comes to Unit Check Outs vice that of any Aircrew position.  Air Weapons out of Tinker or G-K would be the cat's meow, however I think the hole at North Bay might be a more realistic first posting.

Good luck friend - we'll see you in Blue in a couple of years.

 

[eliminator]

I dont expect to go AWACS any time soon. I realize that this possition is very very rarley a first posting. Our AEC career manager told us that a couple of years ago some freshly certified Air Weapons guys got to go AWACS as their first posting, but agian that's one of those right place, right time things.

I realize that there is somewhat of a backlog at Cornwall. If, for example after I graduate next May the course isnt till January or something, I can use that OJT time to work my commerical.

I'm already starting to work towards a commercial to go back to ACS, but it's hard to get the hours in and it costs lots of $$.

 

[tree hugger]

What is the AEC training like?  I had once expressed interest in it but was told that the last course noone passed.  Probably an exageration of course but does it have as high a failure rate as say MARS?

 

[mdh]

Now, I have to get a commercial licence if I want to try again.


No offence to any of the air force people here (you guys are always helpful and I appreciate the information -- especially as an aviation fan) but, how does ACS justify that policy? Getting a full commercial ticket? I could understand a few logged hours in a sim.   But considering the cost of training nowadays (I believe it runs about $160 hour with an instructor in my neck of the woods) that sounds just a little outlandish.

Anyway, good luck on the AEC, Emilinator.

cheers, all, mdh

 

[Inch]

Now, I have to get a commercial licence if I want to try again.


No offence to any of the air force people here (you guys are always helpful and I appreciate the information -- especially as an aviation fan) but, how does ACS justify that policy? Getting a full commercial ticket? I could understand a few logged hours in a sim.   But considering the cost of training nowadays (I believe it runs about $160 hour with an instructor in my neck of the woods) that sounds just a little outlandish.

Anyway, good luck on the AEC, Emilinator.

cheers, all, mdh

The military is odd like that. ACS is designed to make sure that a prospective pilot has the aptitude for flying in the military environment. The big difference is the pace at which you learn. I had a Commercial Multi IFR license and a College Aviation Diploma when I joined the CF so I bypassed PFT in Portage. There's guys that get to Moose Jaw with only the 30 hrs that they got on PFT and they're stepping into an aircraft with a Vne of 316kts that cruises at 278 KTAS at 31,000 ft. It's a very steep learning curve, but it's not impossible.

Here's my progression, 97 hrs on the Harvard, then 103 hrs on the Jet Ranger, at the end of that I had 200 hrs, an instrument rating and I learned to fly not only high performance aircraft to a high standard, but also helicopters. Then with 200hrs in my book, I had my first flight in a Sea King helicopter, multi engine and multi crew with an all up weight of 20,500 lbs. Guys that go Herc and Aurora are the same way, 200 or so hours and you're flying a 4 engined aircraft with an AUW in the neighbourhood of 150,000lbs (for the Herc) in a multi crew environment. Compare that to guys I went to college with that had over 1000 hrs before stepping foot in a Beech 1900 that weighs in at around 17,000 lbs.

So while ACS may seem unfair, I think it's a pretty accurate measure of whether or not people can keep up with the pace the military expects you to learn at. I guess they figure that if you can get a commercial license, then you've improved on your ability to fly and they're willing to take another look at you. Look on the bright side, at least there's a way to get another chance, if someone fails out of BFT or AFT, they're done. No second chances there.

 

[mdh]

Here's my progression, 97 hrs on the Harvard, then 103 hrs on the Jet Ranger, at the end of that I had 200 hrs, an instrument rating and I learned to fly not only high performance aircraft to a high standard, but also helicopters. Then with 200hrs in my book, I had my first flight in a Sea King helicopter, multi engine and multi crew with an all up weight of 20,500 lbs. Guys that go Herc and Aurora are the same way, 200 or so hours and you're flying a 4 engined aircraft with an AUW in the neighbourhood of 150,000lbs (for the Herc) in a multi crew environment. Compare that to guys I went to college with that had over 1000 hrs before stepping foot in a Beech 1900 that weighs in at around 17,000 lbs.

Inch,

Wow, I see what you mean: that's pretty impressive, and a big learning curve. It must be incredibly intense making that fast a transition.  (I had enough trouble learning to land my 150 on alternate weekends.)

Once again thanks for the input, you guys are a great resource,

mdh

 

[I_am_John_Galt]

Re: CFASC retest

For what it's worth, my experience confirms the above: the official explanation I was given was that you are allowed 1 retest (lifetime) on the basis that you have demonstrated that you 'have upgraded your psychomotor skills to a point where proficiency to learn military flying is evident' (I'm paraphrasing, it was a while ago) and have special permission.  The only way to do this is to obtain your PPL (or FAA equivalent: Recreational is insufficient) in the case where you had no license, or upgrade to CPL from PPL if you had your PPL prior to attending CFASC the first time ... the 'special permission' is (nearly?) always granted.

For my part, I passed on the second go-round!!!  :threat:  (Still awaiting medical, though ...)