Aircrew (Re)Selection

[Duckman54]

Sorry to repeat same question...  but mine MAY be a li'l different.

Way back in '96, fresh outta university, I applied for Aircrew via DEO  (yes, they had that way back when...).  Did all the testing, CFAT, panel interview, medical, opto, yadda-yadda...  was all enrolled, clearly recall the "signing of the dotted line", and was just a few weeks out from being shipped off to Borden for CAPSS etc.

BUT....  I get a phone call telling me "...Upon further review of your visual tests, we've concluded that you have a 0.5 diopter correction in one eye, and the max allowable for AirCrew is 0.25...  you can still be a Navigator, though!"  I was crushed...

I also felt screwed over, cuz I know for a fact I have incredible vision, thanks to Laser surgery (PRK), and clearly recall the Ophthamologist being very impressed with the old-school manual vision assessment, verbalizing my vision was 'good to go'.

-- Note:  The auto-laser-refractor pre-test that the girl did before I saw Opthamologist was a different matter...  the machine spit out numbers that made *no* sense, and gave the girl quite the puzzled look... 

I guess they tried to rectify these 2 results and "decided" my eyes were sportin' a defect.

After being told I was No-Go for Pilot, I was given the option of staying on as Navigator, or I could gracefully bow out... 
I bowed out.

Many months later, my older brother's friend who was a CF-18 instructor at Cold Lake at the time, advised me that my denial was likely a "BS Test", just to see how bad I really wanted it. At the time of my denial, it never occurred to me that my gov't would wanna play childish games like that, and I took the Aircrew denial as fact.

Always said if I was denied, I'd go get license myself, and I made good on that threat, immediately doing my Commercial Multi-IFR  -- WITHOUT any glasses or contacts, thank you!

Years go by, I'm 38 now... Still hold my Science Degree, and just passed yet another Cat I Medical for Commercial Licence... again, NO GLASSES. I can fly with 400 passengers behind me, but gawd forbid no camo-green pallets allowed!

Considering re-applying, just to see what happens...  Current Peace-Officer gig is lame...  But they probably won't take me... I obviously don't have any security clearance or weapons training, either.

Anyone care to speculate?  I'll keep you apprised.

 

[dimsum]

Vision standards for Pilot changed to V2 (slightly less restrictive) in about 2007, and one of the laser surgery procedures is now accepted. 

As for the "BS test", what would have been the "right" answer?  Join as an ACSO, slog your way through and try to transfer to Pilot?  At the time (pre-2007) V1 was the required vision category for Pilots, so I somewhat doubt that.

All this to say:  If you want it badly enough, apply.  As even a little bit of reading on this site will tell you, Pilot is extremely competitive, the CF isn't hiring as many people (in general, not just referring to Pilots), and the training system isn't quick.  Your CPL-MIFR will help you possibly bypass Primary Flight Training, unless that's changed now.

 

[Zoomie]

Your brothers friends boyfriend's uncle who flies the plastic jet was full of BS.

If you want to reapply - go for it. Nothing you did back in '96 is valid anymore, so prepare yourself for the whole gambit.  If you're flying a jet that has 400 pax, one might say you are already at the pinnacle of your aviation career - unless of course you were implying that your commercial license would allow you to fly a heavy with that many pax?

It's interesting where people's careers go over their lifetime.  Once I'm done this flying gig, I might consider becoming a peace officer....

 

[Melbatoast]

Like the other guys (who are actual experienced aircrew) have said, the government doesn't play games like that. Moreover, all of your files are long gone, so there's no record of your previous application - clean slate.

That said, there is a zero percent chance you would have made it through the ASC medical in 1996 having had laser eye surgery. It was strictly forbidden for pilots until 2008 (and probably for navs in 1996) . The good news is that now you have two things going for you: pilot vision standards are now V2 (if you are that) and they're fine with laser surgery. Age isn't a concern per se (I'm almost your age and lots of OJTs are even older) so if you can stomach starting a new job right from the bottom at this stage of your life, go for it.

You'll be provided a security clearance and weapons training...

 

[Duckman54]

GUYS...  Firstly, THANK YOU very sincerely for your replies...  even the snotty sarcastic parts!  Shows you read my whole post carefully, and took some time crafting a thoughtful reply.

1) Whew!  Relieved our Forces don't play silly games with the whole 'BS test' thing.
2) Still little choked they denied my vision when I know for a fact it was certified & tested as amazing. Understand, tho, that experts back-East woulda discovered my PRK and woulda canned my ass before getting too far...  Still, I was very bitter for many years feeling I had been lied to...
3) No, not currently flying for a living, 400 pax or otherwise. As stated, doing a li'l gig as a Peace Officer somewhere in BC. Nor have I ever flown with 400 PAX, most know I'd need ATPL for that, not just Comm/M-IFR.  My point (missed?) was that it seems my VISION is apparently good enough for 400 pax (recent Class 1 Medical passed, vision, color, ECG, whole 9 yds), but not good enough for our military, even for cargo dawgs.
4) WONDERFUL to hear about recent (2008) changes!  Already sent new Application off...

...und now vee VAIT!

- in the meantime, working on my precision as advised by many - Zoomie in particular - in other posts.

p.s.  Zoomie...  the Peace Officer thing is totally over-rated!  Although the reaction from someone you just 'shot' with the Taser can be infinitely more entertaining than if it was a 9mm!

 

[Loachman]

I can (emphasis mine; Loachman) fly with 400 passengers behind me,

"Can" implies an ability to do something. This was not interpreted the way that you intended it to be.

The previous vision rules had been in place for a very long time. We are a conservative organization, which has both advantages and disadvantages.

Keep in mind that, even today, one joins as a Pilot rather than a fighter Pilot, or transport Pilot, or Tac Hel Pilot etcetera. There was, and still is, one standard for all because nobody knows where a given candidate will end up. That standard has just been relaxed a little now that laser surgery has improved and is accepted.

Military Pilots will do many things that civilian pilots never will as well. What's good enough for them may not be good enough for us.

Lastly, the CF flying training system does not exist to teach people to fly. It exists to train Pilots for the Canadian Armed Forces. The distinction is important. It means, for one thing, that you cannot expect to be given the benefit of any doubt that may exist during the application and enrollment process.

 

[Duckman54]

Well...  update time.

A little further along in the process...  Had CFAT, Interview, and medical early Feb. Got sent off with papers for a further physical from my doc (standard practice for Aircrew applicants?) and Optometry exam.

Doc good, Opto good. Can't explain.

Eyes don't generally get BETTER all by themselves with age, do they?

Anyways...  17 yrs ago, not good enough. Today, v1 in hand. Next stop Trenton.  Go figger...

 

[Duckman54]

Well, Trenton was fun!  My whole group did both Pilot and AEC testing. Passed both. In fact was told I scored REALLY high. Good times.

Now, as has been the case numerous occasions before, we WAIT!  Told there's a Pilot Selection Board in June, so hoping for a job offer shortly after that.

 

[26point2]

Nice job!  Hoping to attend ASC soon myself.

 

[PeterL]

This is an interesting scenario! Glad you aced the various tests. You make the process seem pretty effortless.

 

[SkyHeff]

Just as an FYI, the method of testing for ASC has changed and with it the conditions allowing one to re-take the test. There is now a one year wait period before trying again, with up to 3 attempts. There is also no longer the requirment to upgrade your pilot's license before re-trying (for pilot applicants).

All the fine print is continuing to trickle into the Recruiting Centres, so I'm still learning all the specifics about this.

 

[Duckman54]

Hardly effortless...  BUT The process *is* what you make it.  The criteria are spelled out pretty well, so if you're somewhat bright, physically fit, have a clean lifestyle, clean credit and a clean criminal record then you can expect to pass most of the required steps. It just isn't QUICK!

Of course, a couple of these steps aren't all that straightforward, but again the expectations are simply 'Do your BEST', and the Forces will tell you if this may be a suitable career for you or not.  And then of course there's the 'Competition' factor... never know who you're up against any particular month.  And yet another X-Factor is the Forces 'needs' at a given time. Trades open and close routinely based on anticipated attrition levels, and they do their best to recruit given each trade's selection and training lead-time.

You know what your own past and credit look like... do your best to clean it up if needed. You know your physical abilities...  put on your runners and go improve it!  Study like hell, focus like you really want it, and start knocking off the required steps 1 by 1. Good luck! 

I got sworn in yesterday, and off to BMOQ next weekend. Good times...

 

[Phoenix80]

Hey Duckman,
Hope all is well.
What books or materials did you use to prepare for the CFAT? Thanks.

 

[Duckman54]

Nothing other than the 'Practise CFAT' that's linked from the main Forces.ca site. Designed to be something you *can't* really study for! Lol. It's an Aptitude test...  Just go in well rested and knock it out!

While the process isn't effortless, it certainly is doable. BMOQ done, commission received, Phase I flight training done, Aeromedical training done, off to Phase II real soon, yay Moose Jaw!

'Greg.

 

[Phoenix80]

Nothing other than the 'Practise CFAT' that's linked from the main Forces.ca site. Designed to be something you *can't* really study for! Lol. It's an Aptitude test...  Just go in well rested and knock it out!

While the process isn't effortless, it certainly is doable. BMOQ done, commission received, Phase I flight training done, Aeromedical training done, off to Phase II real soon, yay Moose Jaw!

'Greg.

Wonderful. So happy for you.

Can you elaborate on the vision test? I did my eye exam today (at a private clinic/optometrist office) and both my eyes are 20/20. Though one eye is weaker than the other but it is barely noticeable and doesn't need glasses or anything.

Did blood test and physical. Everything is in order and no major issues there either. ALthough my teeth are going to be fixed/filled and taken care of.

Now having said these, what else did you go through during your medical examinations? What did they focus on more? Should I get a Category 1 medical done (as prescribed by NavCanada?) before submitting for a CF medical exam?

I ordered the CFAT book from Amazon.ca and I am going to work on that. How long did your whole process take?

Thank you so much for taking the time to reply.

 

[Gunshark]

Wonderful. So happy for you.

Can you elaborate on the vision test? I did my eye exam today (at a private clinic/optometrist office) and both my eyes are 20/20. Though one eye is weaker than the other but it is barely noticeable and doesn't need glasses or anything.

Did blood test and physical. Everything is in order and no major issues there either. ALthough my teeth are going to be fixed/filled and taken care of.

Now having said these, what else did you go through during your medical examinations? What did they focus on more? Should I get a Category 1 medical done (as prescribed by NavCanada?) before submitting for a CF medical exam?

I ordered the CFAT book from Amazon.ca and I am going to work on that. How long did your whole process take?

Thank you so much for taking the time to reply.

Still need any answers? Or are you farther along now? Cheers.

 

[Phoenix80]

Still need any answers? Or are you farther along now? Cheers.

Hi
I'd always love to hear forum members' feedback. Sorry for the delay in getting back here. Been busy. But yes please feel free to answer my questions.

In the meantime I have begun working on my PPL and flight school to prepare myself for the aircrew selection test in Trenton.

What else?! hmmm my main concerns right now are the interview questions and the basic training. 

Thanks again.

 

[Gunshark]

Hi
I'd always love to hear forum members' feedback. Sorry for the delay in getting back here. Been busy. But yes please feel free to answer my questions.

In the meantime I have begun working on my PPL and flight school to prepare myself for the aircrew selection test in Trenton.

What else?! hmmm my main concerns right now are the interview questions and the basic training. 

Thanks again.

Where are you in your application process?

You don't need flying experience or PPL for the aircrew selection test in Trenton. Though if you flip through the test guide (http://rcaf-arc.forces.gc.ca/en/cf-aircrew-selection-centre/candidate-guide.page - better to open the Word doc), you will note a flight intruments portion.

If you do get some flying experience, it may be a good personal experience, and it may reflect well on your resume potentially. But not mandatory. It's good to have leadership experience since you're applying for a leadership position (a Officer).

You don't need to do your own medicals, unless you were just wondering about the state of your health before you enter a lengthy application processes. All medicals will be done as part of recruitment.

Cat 1 medical is required if you want to get a commercial license. Cat 3 is enough for PPL. You don't need to do any of it though as I've explained. Unless you really are set on getting a PPL just for yourself. In that case, you may as well get Cat 1 medical just to see if you can ever be a commercial pilot in case the RCAF doesn't pan out.

Good luck.

 

[Duckman54]

Sorry for delay, Gunshark...

Yes, farther along now. Phase 2 in Moose-Jaw done. Hanging upside-down in the straps of the Harvard was FUN!! Got selected heli's, my first choice! Ideally hoping for SAR Cormorant, but that's a ways off still. Back to Portage in June for Phase 3. In the mean-time just enjoying AFOD and studying everything helo I can get my hands on.  Been told I'm not slated for Land or Sea survival until after Phase 3... Little unusual, but whatever.  Been told OTU's are all bottle-necked , so no mad rush to ship off there after wings anyway.

Moving along at a good pace, still long ways to go...