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All Things CAF and Covid/ Covid Vaccine [merged]

Eye In The Sky

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Why? It sounds like he respects them enough to allow them to make their own decisions.

He sounds like someone who doesn’t give 2 shits about anyone other than himself. Allowing subs to “make their own decisions” isn’t always the best COA.
 

Jarnhamar

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The 10k+ empty positions say otherwise.
Not related.

There's 12K empty positions and 10K positions filled by sink and injured non-deployable members.

Lots of Canadians just don't want to be in the military regardless of all the money and benefits that come with it. Not everyone can handle it.

There's tons of reasons to get back in the forces if you can. It's a personal choice.
 

brihard

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What’s your next excuse, “do it for the institution or don’t retreat into retirement?”.
What are you going on about? Jarnhamar's exactly correct. Not everyone can handle it. The military isn't for everybody. For others, it's a really great go.. For many, probably somewhere in the middle- it pays the bills, and has job security, benefits and a pension and usually isn't too hard but very occasionally is.
 

mariomike

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What’s your next excuse, “do it for the institution or don’t retreat into retirement?”.

I was not referring to you specifically, Quirky.

I meant anybody, on any job.
 

Booter

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Good day,
This will be my last post here with possibly the exception of the Communications and Electronics if I re-establish myself. I always loved military communications, I have the the digital battle box nearly memorized and I do those types of communications on my own time.

I have my marching orders.

Despite any waspishness, I very much appreciate all of you and all of your posts. It has been excellent to be here and share my knowledge. Of course it has been also excellent to be able to search for older knowledge that has been saved in this repository. Thank you all so very much for your time and effort.

I don't know where life is going to take me next. I thought when it was time to cross the bridge I would burn it to light my path forward. Fortunately, thanks to the amazing people I have worked with, nothing has caught fire.

Someday our country will have freedom again.

With my most sincerest love, I wish you all the very best.
Take care of yourself and make sure you land on your feet.
 

Eaglelord17

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You do know how an army works, right?
Yes, but there is a difference in go fight this enemy, and I respect your right to make your own health decisions.
He sounds like someone who doesn’t give 2 shits about anyone other than himself. Allowing subs to “make their own decisions” isn’t always the best COA.
Why because he wants people to be able to make decisions for themselves? The whole selfish argument is pretty weak, you could argue anyone who is in the hospital for any sort of somewhat self inflicted injury or treatment taking up hospital space is selfish as well. I would argue it is pretty selfish to believe you have any right to dictate what someone has to do with their body, especially after they have refused to consent to what you want.

Got cancer because you smoke? Selfish. In the hospital because your liver is failing and your a alcoholic? Selfish. Taking up medical staffs time because your ODing off drugs? Selfish. Having a heart attack because your overweight and unfit? Selfish.

He has many very valid questions. For example what is a acceptable death rate before we open up again? When you consider Covid only has a mortality rate 4 times what the flu has, if it went down to 3 times would we open up again? 2 times? Equal?

How many years are we willing to sacrifice to mainly keep people who are close to end of life alive slightly longer? How many people are going to die because we have decided to postpone surgeries? Suicides? Wasting the best years of many lives, or ruining the last few of the ones we care about. This has already gone on for over 2.5% of a average Canadians life, how much more are we willing to sacrifice?

The canary in the coal mine isn't that people are dying, it is that our healthcare system is trash and barely sustains itself at the best of times. How long are we going to be in lockdown to just allow a broken system to limp along?

As to the best COA, sometimes the leadership making the decision doesn't end well either, in many cases especially from a military standpoint it can result in many deaths. I am not sure I trust their judgement especially with the lack of accountability for their actions which seems to be the course of action both for the military and the government (such as allowing our healthcare system to get to the state it is in).
 

Jarnhamar

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What’s your next excuse, “do it for the institution or don’t retreat into retirement?”.
It's a simple fact. Ever teach on a basic training course, PLQ or BMOQ?

It’s entertaining.
Is it? I thought you eluded to being retired thus able to speak your mind on behalf of all of us who can't.

So are you still serving or retired?
 
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Quirky

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Why because he wants people to be able to make decisions for themselves?

It’s the Army, don’t you know, you are told what to do. :rolleyes: I’ll support any decision my subs have, as long as they know the consequences. Don’t want the vaccine? Well these are you options now.

Same with people who have underlying health issues. At this point they need to take some personal responsibility and protect themselves from everyone else. Expecting society to cater to your problems forever is unrealistic. We have vaccines and unlimited boosters, fill your boots and open up everything. Drop all restrictions. Majority of deaths are 70+, unvaccinated and with health issues. Enough is enough.

Speaking of enough, this thread has lost its purpose. eject eject
 
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SupersonicMax

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It’s the Army, don’t you know, you are told what to do. :rolleyes: I’ll support any decision my subs have, as long as they know the consequences. Don’t want the vaccine? Well these are you options now.

Same with people who have underlying health issues. At this point they need to take some personal responsibility and protect themselves from everyone else. Expecting society to cater to your problems forever is unrealistic. We have vaccines and unlimited boosters, fill your boots and open up everything. Drop all restrictions. Majority of deaths are 70+, unvaccinated and with health issues. Enough is enough.

Speaking of enough, this thread has lost its purpose. eject eject
So, you’re upset we are releasing 900 people but you’d be fine with thousands releasing because they can’t be guaranteed a work environment that won’t jeopardize their health (because they have underlying issues and need to protect themselves)? Interesting perspective.
 

PuckChaser

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So, you’re upset we are releasing 900 people but you’d be fine with thousands releasing because they can’t be guaranteed a work environment that won’t jeopardize their health (because they have underlying issues and need to protect themselves)? Interesting perspective.
Since you still believe the vaccine stops transmission: How many CAF members are still working full time hours that are so sick or immunocompromised that they're at risk for severe COVID complications even though they're under the age of 60? If you're going to count all the morbidly obese people, I'd suggest the solution is release them, not someone who was never going to get really sick from COVID anyways. What are we going to do with those people when we admit COVID is endemic and we're working full time sans masks and distancing? They're still at risk and all we've accomplished is skirting ordering people to take a vaccine by ordering them to disclose medical information.
 

Eye In The Sky

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We haven’t skirted ordering people to get vaccinated. As an institution, the CAF has decided (rightly so IMO) to address those who don’t comply administratively only. The order was given and is being enforced.

I don’t think anyone believes the vaccination(s) will STOP transmission, it is one piece of a larger attempt to slow and lower transmission.
 

Bruce Monkhouse

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If you're going to count all the morbidly obese people, I'd suggest the solution is release them,
Why is this even a discussion?? Of course they should be gone.....I was shocked a few years ago being at Petawawa Point and seeing some of the lard asses. Frig, I remember back in the early 80's RSM Flanagan actually noticed I got a little bigger, [from the 30 waist size I'd had since school to a 32] and suggested " to step away from the dinner table".
 

Quirky

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They are still taking up hospital beds and staff, therefore those with other emergencies can't use them.

Do you not see how this would be an issue?
It’s called triage. They would get the boot for other emergencies.
 

SupersonicMax

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It’s called triage. They would get the boot for other emergencies.
And during that time the unvaccinated take more of their share of hospital beds, we burn our ressources out (materiel and human).
 
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