All Things CAF and Covid/ Covid Vaccine [merged]

[Infanteer]

The CDC is fauchi. Fauchi is a flip flopping liar.

There is good evidence out there that Dr Fauci made some bad calls - WaPo did a good investigative piece on the origins of the COVID-19 virus and how his recommendations were plain wrong.

That being said, great thing about our institutions in the West is that they are more than just the guy or gal on top, and the expertise of CDC as one of the world's top organizations on disease goes beyond the policy advice of its head. I'll take what they say over some random internet guy 11 days out of 10 - doesn't mean I won't listen to what the internet guy has to say, but he's going to have to prove that vaccines have microchips and horse dewormer cures cancer.

 

[QV]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1579940690431279104

 

[Fishbone Jones]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1579940690431279104

People still won't believe it. It's human nature. They've been taken for a ride and just refuse to admit it for fear of looking silly and gullible amongst their freinds.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

People still won't believe it. It's human nature. They've been taken for a ride and just refuse to admit it for fear of looking silly and gullible amongst their freinds.

Bullshit!

I've said right from the start that in 20 years anti-vaxxers might be proved right when we all have an extra hand growing out of our foreheads.
But right NOW it appears to be the right thing for humanity.



It's pretty simple really.....this didn't turn out to be the Black Plague, or the Spanish Flu, so you can weave and bob all you want, call us all the names you want, but no matter how much you're dug in, you can't argue that something made a difference.

 

[Quirky]

I heard we're in a new wave with new variants. Mask up, get your boosters, stay inside, give me your address so I can weld your door shut.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

No one called you names. If you felt compelled to self identify, that's your problem. Not mine.

We won't know the knock on effects for years. Meanwhile, feel free to follow the explanations of big pharma. The same one that have been lying and obsfucating the truth of their products since the beginning.

You can believe whatever you wish, but because I disagree with your personal opinion, doesn't make either of us right. I simply state my opinions, nobody is forcing you to discuss them. My right to state my opinion trumps your need to shut me up.

 

[McG]

Military eases COVID-19 vaccine mandate, presses ahead with releasing unvaccinated troops

Vaccines will no longer be a mandatory prerequisite for those serving in uniform, but members who already refused to get vaccinated will be released

www.theglobeandmail.com

The continued requirement to get two shots has come to an end. But, if you refused that lawful order while it was in effect, you are still getting kicked out.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Military eases COVID-19 vaccine mandate, presses ahead with releasing unvaccinated troops

Vaccines will no longer be a mandatory prerequisite for those serving in uniform, but members who already refused to get vaccinated will be released

www.theglobeandmail.com

The continued requirement to get two shots has come to an end. But, if you refused that lawful order while it was in effect, you are still getting kicked out.

I agree with the release. If you aren't able to follow orders, you are "unsuitable for military service".

I would personally classify it as "conscientious objection" but that's a whole other can of worms.

 

[Navy_Pete]

I heard we're in a new wave with new variants. Mask up, get your boosters, stay inside, give me your address so I can weld your door shut.

Can confirm; got it about a month ago, kicked my ass hard for 3 days, was still dragging for a few weeks, but wasn't hospitalized or any other longer running symptoms.

To me that's a win for vaccines; even though it's not 100% effective, was close enough to the original that my immune system was able to fight it off with no major issues that needed a doctor.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Can confirm; got it about a month ago, kicked my ass hard for 3 days, was still dragging for a few weeks, but wasn't hospitalized or any other longer running symptoms.

To me that's a win for vaccines; even though it's not 100% effective, was close enough to the original that my immune system was able to fight it off with no major issues that needed a doctor.

I'm going to come across as an ass but I'm going to say it anyways:

Based on what evidence exactly? Are you sitting at home, hooked up to a machine studying your immune response or did you just "know in your gut that it worked?"

I'm happy you took the Vaccine and you feel that it did something for you. My spouse just got COVID, has all her boosters and was on her ass for a week straight and is only on the mend now.

Meanwhile I haven't gotten the most recent booster, spent my entire days nursing her while continuing to go to work. I never isolated from her, never caught COVID and continued to work the entire time. We would spend her evening enjoying popsicles I bought while I made her soup and gave her the daily dose of Nyquil. I also tested myself daily just to be sure.

Does my personal anecdote somehow hold less merit than yours?

Here is a suggestion: if you want the vaccine or think you need it, get it. Otherwise, the pandemic is over and lets stop being hypochondriacs and get back to living life. Lets also stop projecting what we think others should be doing.

 

[dapaterson]

The medical evidence studying outcomes that has documented risk of death by age group based on vaccination status enters the discussion.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

The medical evidence studying outcomes that has documented risk of death by age group based on vaccination status enters the discussion.

Well link it then. Show me this medical evidence that you have spent time extensively researching to form your own conclusion.

I've gotten COVID a number of times, hasn't killed me yet. I've got way more of a chance dying from my current line of work than I do from COVID.

The conditions are dangerous and adverse enough that I don't need some "work from home office armchair nannies" telling me what additional PPE I need to wear, that significantly increases my chance of seriously injuring myself jumping on and off moving equipment because I'm physically exerting myself and my safety glasses keep fogging up from the BS mask.

 

[Lumber]

Is my personal anecdote somehow hold less merit than yours?

Deleted.

 

[Remius]

Well link it then. Show me this medical evidence that you have spent time extensively researching to form your own conclusion.

I've gotten COVID a number of times, hasn't killed me yet. I've got way more of a chance dying from my current line of work than I do from COVID.

The conditions are dangerous and adverse enough that I don't need some "work from home office armchair nannies" telling me what additional PPE I need to wear, that significantly increases my chance of seriously injuring myself jumping on and off moving equipment because I'm physically exerting myself and my safety glasses keep fogging up from the BS mask.

Why the need for safety glasses in your line of work?

Yes the question is a bit of a trap. Are you mandated to wear them by someone? Did someone determine (maybe even a “work from home armchair nannie” type)?

Lots of people I know don’t feel they need for helmets, life jackets etc etc. Are they right? Wrong? Or should we just let everyone decide for themselves?

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Why the need for safety glasses in your line of work?

Yes the question is a bit of a trap. Are you mandated to wear them by someone? Did someone determine (maybe even a “work from home armchair nannie” type)?

Lots of people I know don’t feel they need for helmets, life jackets etc etc. Are they right? Wrong? Or should we just let everyone decide for themselves?

I was anticipating this response

The reason the safety glasses are mandated is because "The Company" mandates them to lower accidents in the workplace.

Accidents cost the company money, increases insurance rates and reduces profitability so their is a performance incentive to prevent them. Having an accident prevention strategy is good for business. It optimizes assets and drives increased shareholder value.

The difference between COVID mandates and an accident prevention strategy is that one is created by the Company to increase profitability while one is forced on the Company by the Government and has the effect of decreasing profitability.

COVID mandates cost the company money. They are an additional constraint that end up costing more money for the company and also for the consumer.

The current dysfunction of the supply chain and industries like the Airlines should serve as an example of this.

Whether the cost of mandates are worth it or not is up for debate. I doubt the Government will commission a study any time soon that says the mandates were BAD FOR BUSINESS.

 

[McG]

Well link it then. Show me this medical evidence that you have spent time extensively researching to form your own conclusion.

I have lost count of the number of times declare there is no evidence to support that vaxines work, then the evidence is posted, then there is some deflection because the proof does not support the confirmation bias, then some days later were are again told that there is no evidence to support that vaxines work. Here, let me spoon feed you: United States: COVID-19 weekly death rate by vaccination status

 

[McG]

Here's another, from Ontario so closer to home: Ontario Dashboard - Ontario COVID-19 Science Advisory Table

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

@Remius then there is also the fact that you've now made the conditions of work so terrible for some of these critical industries that nobody wants to do them anymore or if they are going to do them, well the "price" in exchange for work just went up significantly to you.

Effects of Pilot Shortage Are Far Reaching and Changing the Way We Travel

Shortages across the airline industry are causing subtle and overt changes to the U.S. travel system. Major airlines such as Fort Worth-based American Airlines are relying less...

www.aviationpros.com

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/alberta-trucker-shortage-insurace-1.6588358

Large rail union rejects contract deal with railroads, renewing strike possibility

The U.S.'s third largest railroad union rejected a deal with employers Monday, renewing the possibility of a strike that could cripple the economy.

www.pbs.org

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/consumer-prices-supply-chain-delays-1.6558371

We shall see how awesome all of these decisions are when people run out of essential goods and services and the supply chain finally breaks.

As an anecdote, all of the people I work with agree that the COVID mandates made our workplace terrible and if they had to do it again, they would probably start seeking alternate employment.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

I have lost count of the number of times declare there is no evidence to support that vaxines work, then the evidence is posted, then there is some deflection because the proof does not support the confirmation bias, then some days later were are again told that there is no evidence to support that vaxines work. Here, let me spoon feed you: United States: COVID-19 weekly death rate by vaccination status

View attachment 74243

I am vaccinated, you don't need to convince me . I haven't gotten my most recent booster but I have three vaccines.

The problem with generalized statistics is they lack details and we all know the devil is in the details.

It would be great to see the "Risk" broken down by age category, sex, race, #of co-morbidities, etc. Why should I be lumped together with a geriatric? Or someone that has multiple co-morbidities?

Your statistics which you paint as irrefutable facts lack the rigorous detail to make an informed decision. It's the equivalent of Soviet Planned Economics

 

[McG]

@Remius then there is also the fact that you've now made the conditions of work so terrible for some of these critical industries that nobody wants to do them anymore or if they are going to do them, well the "price" in exchange for work just went up significantly to you.

Effects of Pilot Shortage Are Far Reaching and Changing the Way We Travel

Shortages across the airline industry are causing subtle and overt changes to the U.S. travel system. Major airlines such as Fort Worth-based American Airlines are relying less...

www.aviationpros.com

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/alberta-trucker-shortage-insurace-1.6588358

Large rail union rejects contract deal with railroads, renewing strike possibility

The U.S.'s third largest railroad union rejected a deal with employers Monday, renewing the possibility of a strike that could cripple the economy.

www.pbs.org

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/consumer-prices-supply-chain-delays-1.6558371

We shall see how awesome all of these decisions are when people run out of essential goods and services and the supply chain finally breaks.

As an anecdote, all of the people I work with agree that the COVID mandates made our workplace terrible and if they had to do it again, they would probably start seeking alternate employment.

None of those articles mention a COVID, Vacination, or PPE nexus. New truck drivers can't get insured and US rail workers want more paid sick days. You are getting lost in red herrings.

Your statistics which you paint as irrefutable facts lack the rigorous detail to make an informed decision. It's the equivalent of Soviet Planned Economics

Yeah, there's the deflection. We'll just rely on wild conjecture & anecdote while imagining away what can be measured & known.