All Things First Nations - CF help, protests, solutions, residential schools, etc. (merged)

[RangerRay]

I’ve never been a big fan of “cultural appropriation” as a concept. People adapt things from other cultures all throughout history. If this were a real thing, British cuisine would be more abysmal than it is now!

 

[daftandbarmy]

She was gifted the skirt. She wears the skirts to meetings with First Nations communities. It may shock some- but First Nations peoples have a variety of political views too- and just because one person, or several, in the FN community doesn’t like it- doesn’t mean it’s inappropriate. It means we re giving a platform to people who are weaponizing their culture when they think it’s advantageous. I’ve got lots of FN gifts that I could in theory have worn with my uniform. I don’t- but not everyone would have even happy to see me do it. Doesn’t change the intent of communities who gave me the gift.

Just don’t mention how many Inuit people are disappointed because they renamed the Edmonton Eskimos

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I’ve never been a big fan of “cultural appropriation” as a concept. People adapt things from other cultures all throughout history. If this were a real thing, British cuisine would be more abysmal than it is now!

When a band member mentioned how they were pissed at people wearing FN art on shirts, etc, I told him out loud that I agreed and I felt the same way about people wearing plaid as that was my Scottish culture, awkward brief silence, then a chuckle as almost all the FN were wearing plaid shirts.

 

[lenaitch]

With respect, that's kinda like saying, "What? Like the Scots invented plaid?" when someone talks about their tartan and its importance to their heritage & history.

To be fair, the article does say the skirt in question was gifted to the Premier. While leery about some media and political info-machines, barring other evidence, I'll take at face value that someone gifted the ribbon skirt to the Premier, who wore it visiting a FN.

Like all kinds of religious & cultural beliefs, while generally to be respected, some elements may be in the eye of the beholder. Some feel FAR more strongly about some parts of their culture than others - often depending on whether you agree with the politics (or institutional history) of the person in question who received some regalia in good faith from someone giving it in good faith.

All of these folks have had both fans and haters in response to gifted Indigenous regalia in Canada, for example ....
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#RegaliaPoliticalRorschach
More here:

5 times non-Indigenous dignitaries donned gifted headdresses

When Wilton Littlechild, honorary chief of Ermineskin First Nation, gifted Pope Francis a headdress on Monday in Maskwacis, Alta., there was a smattering of applause at the event but online it drew a wave of reaction from the Indigenous community. "People have started to say that the headdress...

ca.news.yahoo.com

My curiosity wasn't with the skirt worn by the Premier, but comments quoted in the article:

"Hamelin, who is a member of Whitefish Cree Nation and lives in Edmonton, said ribbon skirts are sacred and shouldn’t be worn by just anyone.

She accused Smith of violating the “natural laws” of the Cree people."

As @Booter points out, the FN community has a range of cultural and political views jut like every other culture, but it's the noisy voices' that try to, and often succeed, in driving public policy.

 

[lenaitch]

No one in Canada has guaranteed clean drinking water. That is paid for generally by your municipality by your taxes. If your rural you pay less taxes but are providing your own water through wells, etc.

Many of the native groups have been provided clean drinking water, they then fail to maintain facilities, let it go into disrepair, then complain about not having clean drinking water. This issue is a lot deeper than simply providing the means to purify water.

I am of the opinion with the exception of those areas polluted by company action, the government should have nothing to do with it. If the natives wish to be sovereign, be sovereign. Raise taxes. Spend band money on it. Pay to send people to be trained as operators. Actually work the job instead of abandoning it (huge part of the issue there).

Why should everyone else be held responsible for people who refuse to take care of themselves?

The ‘clean drinking water’ mantra sounds good on paper, the more you dig into it though the more you realize that it is much more than simply building a purification center.

Back in the days when most FNs were nomadic or semi-nomadic, there was little sanitation issue when a family or two drank from the river for a short while before moving on. It became more of an issue when they were brought together in numbers to a fixed location.

No doubt some of the locations have poor water, because drinking water and waste are being co-mingled but a boil water advisory doesn't always means that, in and of itself, that the water is contaminated. It could simply means that it is untreated or unfiltered. I saw a comment once where the visitor to a FNT complained that the water was brown. Most surface water in the Boreal is brown (tea coloured); it's from the tannins in the muskeg. When we had access to a cottage, we drank right out of the lake.

Economies of scale work against remote scattered communities of a few hundred each when it comes to delivering services. I've often argued that if they were to be consolidated into a few communities of a few thousand each they would be much easier to operate. As it stands now, each is a distinct 'nation', regardless of size.

That will never happen.

 

[Jarnhamar]

My curiosity wasn't with the skirt worn by the Premier, but comments quoted in the article:

Her comments are not unexpected. Some cultures see wearing their clothing as flattery. Others make it another reason to be victims.

Ribbon dresses only became "mostly formal" in the 19th and 20th century.
Literally bought from European settlers as a cute design to accentuate beads and threads on clothing. Now it's sacred symbolism from the great creator.

 

[Eaglelord17]

Her comments are not unexpected. Some cultures see wearing their clothing as flattery. Others make it another reason to be victims.

Ribbon dresses only became "mostly formal" in the 19th and 20th century.
Literally bought from European settlers as a cute design to accentuate beads and threads on clothing. Now it's sacred symbolism from the great creator.

I consider the whole 'only people of X culture' can wear something to be racist. Either we are all the same species and there is no difference, or we aren't.

Xenophobic sentiment shouldn’t be given a platform in the modern era. It does make sense it is though when the whole native concept is a blood quantium racist philosophy which seeks to place certain groups above others.

 

[The Bread Guy]

As @Booter points out, the FN community has a range of cultural and political views jut like every other culture, but it's the noisy voices' that try to, and often succeed, in driving public policy.

Like with a lot of opinion, for sure - and it sometimes only takes one squeaky wheel, right?

 

[YZT580]

Back in the days when most FNs were nomadic or semi-nomadic, there was little sanitation issue when a family or two drank from the river for a short while before moving on. It became more of an issue when they were brought together in numbers to a fixed location.

No doubt some of the locations have poor water, because drinking water and waste are being co-mingled but a boil water advisory doesn't always means that, in and of itself, that the water is contaminated. It could simply means that it is untreated or unfiltered. I saw a comment once where the visitor to a FNT complained that the water was brown. Most surface water in the Boreal is brown (tea coloured); it's from the tannins in the muskeg. When we had access to a cottage, we drank right out of the lake.

Economies of scale work against remote scattered communities of a few hundred each when it comes to delivering services. I've often argued that if they were to be consolidated into a few communities of a few thousand each they would be much easier to operate. As it stands now, each is a distinct 'nation', regardless of size.

That will never happen.

350 dollars per home and 125 dollars annually for replacement filters will provide an RO system capable of supplying clean water. I have one in my basement and it works great. It isn't necessary to think industrial size units, in fact, as Walkerton proved, they can be deadly unless they are properly maintained.

 

[foresterab]

She was gifted the skirt. She wears the skirts to meetings with First Nations communities. It may shock some- but First Nations peoples have a variety of political views too- and just because one person, or several, in the FN community doesn’t like it- doesn’t mean it’s inappropriate. It means we re giving a platform to people who are weaponizing their culture when they think it’s advantageous. I’ve got lots of FN gifts that I could in theory have worn with my uniform. I don’t- but not everyone would have even happy to see me do it. Doesn’t change the intent of communities who gave me the gift.

It's an often discussed topic in our household over what you can wear or not. Unfortunately it's a very complex subject to understand and a symbol that is valid to wear in one community...is an insult in the next. Cree/Blackfoot, Ojibiway/Cree, Cree/Dene, Dene/Slavey, Metis...the nuances are important if you're going to be in a position of authority or responsibility dealing with each community and/or culture.

But like the CAF the uniform I wear represents the Crown. I might work for the "little crown" or province while the CAF represents the "big crown"/Federal government but dressing to represent the Crown is part of the image.

For a politician though...especially in world of snap chat images and twitter news...context is much tougher to explain. What is culturally appropriate and might have been respected by community X is also something that can offend community Y on a glance.

End of the day I have two options....neutral civilian clothes (usually if I know the people involved) or full dress (as a measure of respect to the community and as a crown representative). Each community will indicate preferences though so again local guidance is key.

Note that full uniform can be viewed as intimidation by the crown...but if explained on the first meeting as a measure of respect is acknowledged...so again...local guidance is key.

If you get this perfect...all the time...beer on me.

 

[The Bread Guy]

... No doubt some of the locations have poor water, because drinking water and waste are being co-mingled but a boil water advisory doesn't always means that, in and of itself, that the water is contaminated. It could simply means that it is untreated or unfiltered ...

... or water line breaks (like in any municipality) or even lack of water plant staff.

Another fun fact - it's Chief & Council that impose and lift advisories. Based on federal health input, of course ....

... In First Nations, the chief and council have the authority to issue or lift a drinking water advisory and take necessary actions to resolve it, with Indigenous Services Canada’s (ISC) support. Short-term advisories automatically become long-term after 1 year in effect. Since 2015, 175 short-term water advisories have been prevented from becoming long-term ...

... but I suspect in some cases, that may add another level of ... motivation to keep or lift an advisory.

Meanwhile, some FN skin in the "get minerals out there" game in BC ....

First Nations partnership to buy B.C. port terminal that moves critical minerals

STEWART, BRITISH COLUMBIA, CANADA - Two First Nations have formed a joint partnership with a transport company to purchase the Port of Stewart bulk terminal on the Portland Canal that

www.thecanadianpressnews.ca

 

[Jarnhamar]

It's an often discussed topic in our household over what you can wear or not.

That's in the context of being a First Nation household?

 

[The Bread Guy]

It's an often discussed topic in our household over what you can wear or not. Unfortunately it's a very complex subject to understand and a symbol that is valid to wear in one community...is an insult in the next. Cree/Blackfoot, Ojibiway/Cree, Cree/Dene, Dene/Slavey, Metis...the nuances are important if you're going to be in a position of authority or responsibility dealing with each community and/or culture.

And even among each of those groups, as @lenaitch suggested, individual views can vary widely.

 

[foresterab]

That's in the context of being a First Nation household?

Different backgrounds and places we've lived in Canada...both myself and the better half have lived in multiple provinces and a range of community sizes.

Neither is FN or Metis background but both of us end up taking a ton of training on these subjects...your milage and value per session varies widely. Hence the discussion on "experts" telling generic absolutes but ignoring cultural contexts and regions they're in.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

My curiosity wasn't with the skirt worn by the Premier, but comments quoted in the article:


As @Booter points out, the FN community has a range of cultural and political views jut like every other culture, but it's the noisy voices' that try to, and often succeed, in driving public policy.

and the media is drawn to them like a moth to the flame.

Meanwhile the more sane FN voices, rarely get heard by the general public, thanks to the same media.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Different backgrounds and places we've lived in Canada...both myself and the better half have lived in multiple provinces and a range of community sizes.

Neither is FN or Metis background but both of us end up taking a ton of training on these subjects...your milage and value per session varies widely. Hence the discussion on "experts" telling generic absolutes but ignoring cultural contexts and regions they're in.

Very cool, thank you. Sounds like you're in a great position to provide an unbiased "front line" opinion on the subject.

I asked because it's easy for someone like me to see the conversation about being offended by clothing and see it in the same light as gang colour's.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Meanwhile, some FN skin in the "get minerals out there" game in BC ....

First Nations partnership to buy B.C. port terminal that moves critical minerals

STEWART, BRITISH COLUMBIA, CANADA - Two First Nations have formed a joint partnership with a transport company to purchase the Port of Stewart bulk terminal on the Portland Canal that

www.thecanadianpressnews.ca

I suspect the infill project they have wanted to some 20 years ago, will now proceed so they can extend the dock and handle some containers as well. Granted the family that owned it previously were "interesting" to deal with and there was quite the divide in the community. When Stewart World Port (SWP) was built, that broke the families lock on the town. Alaska, BC and the Feds need to come some better border agreements, so Hyder can start growing again as well. The Bear River threatens both Stewart and the SWP, thanks to the million or so tons of gravel that comes out of it's mouth each year and the riverbed is higher than the townsite.

 

[foresterab]

Very cool, thank you. Sounds like you're in a great position to provide an unbiased "front line" opinion on the subject.

I asked because it's easy for someone like me to see the conversation about being offended by clothing and see it in the same light as gang colour's.

Gang colors are one way to think of it.

Or think of it as studying European history from overseas...and learning all about England's history and Germany.

Then going to France and wondering why you don't understand the other half of the conflict over the War XXXX and War YYYY.

For those CAF members present who deployed to the former Yugoslavia that's another crazy area for local context and insults changing village by village. And like that corner of Europe the history of tribal warfare in Canada is not all peace and roses.

For context I learned about the War of 1812 and the battle for Fort Detroit.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Detroit
Relatively small casualties involved despite the captured/paroled American troops. And not large numbers of people involved. This was a key part of education as a kid..

Now move forward following the formation of Canada in 1867...

Battle of the Belly River - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Look at the casualty numbers in Alberta alone and this doesn't account for the separate raiding/battles along the current international border over the few remaining buffalo.

Just some historical context on how complicated nuances are and how much we don't always know or learn.