Ammo, water, food, fuel....now AA Batteries

[George Wallace]

The other consideration is that the military tends not to deploy to regions where there's a Wal-Mart or Costco handy - so if certain key supplies run out, you're in big trouble.  So, in log planning, you make certain assumptions and add a margin for error.  Thus, if the normal use of AA batteries for a Bn over five months would be 800K, you'd probably bring 1M as a margin for error.

Depends on the Bin Rats.  Some feel that their shelves must remain full, so they don't issue the items, for fear of having empty shelves and a tonne of paperwork.  >  Others can't keep their shelves stocked, for issueing the items.  Then there is the long supply chain and Bin Rats on a higher level not realizing what to priortize to the forward Bin Rats.  A bad apple anywhere along the chain causes problems for all.  A tough job, that requires just the right people at all levels.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Not only is it astounding - it's absurd. Bull.

Yes, of course it is as I have a long and sordid history for lying about stuff like that on this forum  :

However, I did neglect to explain that the majority of these batteries were used in the Clansman radio system (which is why the RSO had to sign for them) and, being the arctic, they ran down faster than in a temperate environment. Duracell must have made a fortune off of us.

Here's a link that decribes the PRC 349 (section radio) version and it's power source. We also used the 350(Pl level) and 320 (HF) radios:

Clansman PRC-349 ( BCC-349 )

This is the standard Hand-held radio of the British army, part of the "Clansman" series of radio equipment. Intended for platoon level personal communications under combat conditions, it may be carried on the shoulder, on the back, on the breast with its adjustable quick-release holster or in a belt worn holster. Features include frequency operation between 37 to 46.956 MHz with channels spaced 25 Khz apart. Protection from open or shorted antenna circuit and receiver overload. A battery save function that is in automatic operation during no-signal conditions. Can be used with clansman 349 rechargeable batteries and charging unit or “Hollow cell” which lets you use civilian AA batteries.

http://www.emlra.org/C&S%20Barrow%20index/clansman_349.htm

 

[BinRat55]

Yes, of course it is as I have a long and sordid history for lying about stuff like that on this forum  :

However, I did neglect to explain that the majority of these batteries were used in the Clansman radio system (which is why the RSO had to sign for them) and, being the arctic, they ran down faster than in a temperate environment. Duracell must have made a fortune off of us.

Here's a link that decribes the PRC 349 (section radio) version and it's power source. We also used the 350(Pl level) and 320 (HF) radios:

Clansman PRC-349 ( BCC-349 )

This is the standard Hand-held radio of the British army, part of the "Clansman" series of radio equipment. Intended for platoon level personal communications under combat conditions, it may be carried on the shoulder, on the back, on the breast with its adjustable quick-release holster or in a belt worn holster. Features include frequency operation between 37 to 46.956 MHz with channels spaced 25 Khz apart. Protection from open or shorted antenna circuit and receiver overload. A battery save function that is in automatic operation during no-signal conditions. Can be used with clansman 349 rechargeable batteries and charging unit or “Hollow cell” which lets you use civilian AA batteries.

http://www.emlra.org/C&S%20Barrow%20index/clansman_349.htm

Don't get me wrong - I wasn't calling bull on the ability to use 1M AA batteries in 5 months - as was pointed out earlier, the math works out, I just can't see procuring 1 million batteries through PWGSC. You can't just go out and buy that many batteries in one shot - approx 40,000 cases would actually have to be procured in about 8000 different shots - and even then it would be considered contract splitting. And about the weight - consider one case of 24 batteries weighs 1 pound. That would mean 20 tonnes of batteries flown to Norway?

If you say so, but logistically it's not adding up for me. Aquisition cards weigh much less...

 

[Matt_Fisher]

Don't get me wrong - I wasn't calling bull on the ability to use 1M AA batteries in 5 months - as was pointed out earlier, the math works out, I just can't see procuring 1 million batteries through PWGSC. You can't just go out and buy that many batteries in one shot - approx 40,000 cases would actually have to be procured in about 8000 different shots - and even then it would be considered contract splitting. And about the weight - consider one case of 24 batteries weighs 1 pound. That would mean 20 tonnes of batteries flown to Norway?

If you say so, but logistically it's not adding up for me. Aquisition cards weigh much less...

Daftandbarmy is referring to his time in the British Army, hence Canadian acquisition rules and regs are not applicable.

 

[BinRat55]

Daftandbarmy is referring to his time in the British Army, hence Canadian acquisition rules and regs are not applicable.

As well with the devolution of military funding... that makes a little more sense... still, how does an organization dispose of so many batteries? Hasn't anyone considered alternative power sources, or even lithium or nickle cadmium batteries which would last longer? How about rechargables? 1 million batteries over a 5 month span is huge. Not that I disbelieve, but WOW - that's a lot of fricken double A's!!

 

[Matt_Fisher]

As well with the devolution of military funding... that makes a little more sense... still, how does an organization dispose of so many batteries? Hasn't anyone considered alternative power sources, or even lithium or nickle cadmium batteries which would last longer? How about rechargables? 1 million batteries over a 5 month span is huge. Not that I disbelieve, but WOW - that's a lot of fricken double A's!!

Disposal was probably done through the regular disposal means, seeing as how it was the 1980's and everything that was deemed rubbish (from used ration packs...to batteries) were probably collected up and put into Norwegian landfills as per what the regulations of the day were.

There is alot of research being put into batteries with longer lifespans and lower weights, but until somebody invents a revolutionary new power storage device that doesn't use lead as its main component, then we're going to be stuck with batteries that are relatively heavy for their size.

 

[X-mo-1979]

Something else for your discussion could be the quality of AA's being issued.They were not Energiser industrial etc.They were blue plastic with a negative and a positive. I used at least 7 EVERY day in my kit.My PRR (2),my MNVG (1),and my PLGR (4).On occasion I would have to change my EO tec and a few other pieces of equipment hat ran on AA's.I can see going through 15 a day on some days.

As well as part of my battle procedure I ensured they changed them all out prior to departure.As well once we were out for a few days I ensured everyday they were changed again.We were not thinking about the money or discussions of waste on army.ca,we were ensuring success and doing what NCM's do:ensuring the guys are ready to fight.

 

[BinRat55]

we were not thinking about the money or discussions of waste on army.ca,we were ensuring success and doing what NCM's do:ensuring the guys are ready to fight.

We here in supply are doing the same thing - just in a different way. I like to think of it as we take care of the stupid stuff so you guys can take care of the serious stuff - us and each other.

 

[OldSolduer]

I spoke to a veteran of TF 1-08 and he told me he'd use anywhere from 10-12 AA per day, and they were not Energizers or Duracells.

 

[Michael OLeary]

While replacing disposable batteries with rechargeable ones may seem like the PC green solution, it creates more problems than it solves.  The system of battery supply is a simple push system based on historical averages tracked in recent similar operations.  The utility of new batteries are dependent on no additional requirements.

For a rechargeable battery system to work on operations, the following have to be considered:

• How many recharging units are required to maintain a dozen batteries per soldier per day? No doubt these could be custom-built automated units that you simply dump dead batteries in the top and charged ones come out the bottom.  But still, how many units, at what cost to obtain, maintain and to maintain backups units?
  
• Who gets issued the rechargers, at whatever size or capacity they might be? What's the scale of issue, keeping in mind that they come with a workload requirement.  Will it be a supply system capability, or will smaller units get pushed ever downward until recharging becomes a section burden responsibility?
  
• Where's the power come from?  Everywhere the rechargers go now needs guaranteed power to keep up with the rate at which the batteries are used.
  
• How many spare batteries have to be maintained for when any circumstances interrupt the charging rate.  Spare rechargeables for when the replacement rate falls below the recharging rate.  Spare "old batteries" for when the recharge system completely fails to meet demands?
  
• What's the system to recover batteries for recharging.  It now complicates the push system of supply with a "return spring" requirement.  Will some bright bunny decide that the control measure will be a continuous one-for-one replacement system?

Rechargables during training in Canada, sure, that could be made to work because failure of the system won't immediately endanger troops (although consideration still has to be given that it may not be the best solution in every training environment).  But I wouldn't want to be the guy trying to convince troops on operations that it's a good idea for them too.

 

[George Wallace]

Solar panels for the LAVs to trickle charge batteries.  Just kidding;........... although there already is one, but it would not be advisable to add more to its current function.

 

[OldSolduer]

But its Earth Day guys!! COme one guys!!

Maybe we can engage Liz May and her eager band of  Green Freaks to:
A. Come up with a solution (however unviable) to the AA battery problem;
B. Negotiate with the Taliban to end the Afghanistan war; and
C. Find a cure for the common cold.
Joking!

 

[Matt_Fisher]

Well, seeing as how Old Solduer did make mention that it is Earth Day, I will throw this out there:

We should consider alternative energy means such as solar panels and wind turbines for places like KAF and FOBs, where applicable so as to reduce the consumption rates of diesel/JP-8 for generators and the logistical strain which that puts on the supply train.

 

[PuckChaser]

Well, seeing as how Old Solduer did make mention that it is Earth Day, I will throw this out there:

We should consider alternative energy means such as solar panels and wind turbines for places like KAF and FOBs where applicable so as to reduce the consumption rates of diesel/JP-8 for generators and the logistical strain which that puts on the supply train.

AStan would be an excellent place to use solar technology.... that being said, the Army can't even figure out how to get comfortable boots or useable tacvests out to troops, the procurement cycle on Solar cells would probably finish by the time we've figured out nuclear fusion.

 

[GDawg]

How about a solar powered manpack? Hey! Tell that Jimmy to get out of the shade!

 

[GAP]

How about a solar powered manpack? Hey! Tell that Jimmy to get out of the shade!

Put Solar Cells on the helmet for the NVG's.....

 

[Franko]

Put Solar Cells on the helmet for the NVG's.....

Like we don't already have enough stuff to wear on our heads!

Regards

 

[Armymedic]

Put Solar Cells on the helmet for the NVG's.....

It was tried, but for some reason they did not work.

Perhaps there was not enough cells, maybe they should attempt a backpack size panel.

 

[daftandbarmy]

They've already got backpack panels on general issue to iPod wearing teenagers...

The Voltaic solar bags are solar chargers designed to charge virtually all handheld electronics.
Powerful Solar Panels: Embedded in the outside of these solar chargers are lightweight, tough, waterproof solar panels. The new Generator produces up to 15 watts, powerful enough to fully charge a typical laptop from a day of direct sunlight. No other solar bag can do this! The smaller bags produce 4 watts of power so 1 hour in direct sun will power over 3 hours of iPod play time or 1.5 hours of cell phone talk time.

Battery Included: All Voltaic bags come with a custom battery pack which stores any surplus power generated, so it is available when you need it - not just when the sun is up. The battery packs can also be charged using the included AC travel charger or car charger, making them just as useful on the grid as off.

Easy Connection to Devices: All bags include standard adaptors for common cell phones and other handheld devices. The Generator also includes common laptop adaptors. Even without an adaptor, you can charge most devices with a standard car charger or USB charger.

http://www.voltaicsystems.com/


Remember: Earth day falls on the anniversary of the first use of poison gas in war, by the Germans against the Canadians and French at the 2nd Battle of Ypres in 1915. Wear a gas mask and donate ironically to Geen Peace.  ;D