Retired AF Guy
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Evocatus said:
Obviously you never heard of or watched Oprah Winfrey.
Ann Coulter accuses Canadian univ. provost of"hate crimes"against Conservatives
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Obviously you never heard of or watched Oprah Winfrey.
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You guys have to understand that Fox News-types (and CNN-types) are there for entertainment as much as news anymore; there is a reason Stephen Colbert is so successful satirizing them.
They are like a combination of Borat and Howard Stern, making outlandish over-the-top statements just like a shock-jock would on the radio.
Sadly, as backwards as this is, Al Jazeera is the closest thing remaining to an un-biased "the facts maam, just the facts" news agency.
They are like a combination of Borat and Howard Stern, making outlandish over-the-top statements just like a shock-jock would on the radio.
Sadly, as backwards as this is, Al Jazeera is the closest thing remaining to an un-biased "the facts maam, just the facts" news agency.
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Professors across Canada are pretty upset about Anne's poor treatment/discrimination; here's a letter they wrote to Mr. Houle:
I'm seriously bothered by it; please don't hesitate to keep the letters flowing, if you have strong feelings about it.
http://www.caut.ca/pages.asp?page=878
March 22, 2010
Dr. Francois Houle
Vice-President Academic and Provost
University of Ottawa
Room 217A Tabaret Hall
550 Cumberland
Ottawa, Ontario
K1N 6N5
Dear Dr. Houle:
We are deeply disturbed by your correspondence with Ann Coulter regarding her speaking engagement at the University of Ottawa tomorrow. Your admonishing her about speech rights in Canada raises serious questions about the University of Ottawa’s respect for freedom of expression and academic freedom.
The purpose of a university is aptly captured in the University of Toronto’s statement on the “Purpose of the University”:
Within the unique university context, the most crucial of all human rights are the rights of freedom of speech, academic freedom, and freedom of research. And we affirm that these rights are meaningless unless they entail the right to raise deeply disturbing questions and provocative challenges to the cherished beliefs of society at large and of the university itself.
Ms. Coulter certainly does raise disturbing questions and provocative challenges. While many of us profoundly disagree with her, a university should welcome controversial speakers and vigorous debate, not seek to restrict discourse or speakers.
We feel you owe an apology to Ms. Coulter and, even more importantly, you owe the University of Ottawa community an assurance that the administration of the University strongly supports freedom of expression, academic freedom and views the role of the university as fostering and defending these values.
Yours truly,
Penni Stewart James L. Turk
President Executive Director
I'm seriously bothered by it; please don't hesitate to keep the letters flowing, if you have strong feelings about it.
http://www.caut.ca/pages.asp?page=878
March 22, 2010
Dr. Francois Houle
Vice-President Academic and Provost
University of Ottawa
Room 217A Tabaret Hall
550 Cumberland
Ottawa, Ontario
K1N 6N5
Dear Dr. Houle:
We are deeply disturbed by your correspondence with Ann Coulter regarding her speaking engagement at the University of Ottawa tomorrow. Your admonishing her about speech rights in Canada raises serious questions about the University of Ottawa’s respect for freedom of expression and academic freedom.
The purpose of a university is aptly captured in the University of Toronto’s statement on the “Purpose of the University”:
Within the unique university context, the most crucial of all human rights are the rights of freedom of speech, academic freedom, and freedom of research. And we affirm that these rights are meaningless unless they entail the right to raise deeply disturbing questions and provocative challenges to the cherished beliefs of society at large and of the university itself.
Ms. Coulter certainly does raise disturbing questions and provocative challenges. While many of us profoundly disagree with her, a university should welcome controversial speakers and vigorous debate, not seek to restrict discourse or speakers.
We feel you owe an apology to Ms. Coulter and, even more importantly, you owe the University of Ottawa community an assurance that the administration of the University strongly supports freedom of expression, academic freedom and views the role of the university as fostering and defending these values.
Yours truly,
Penni Stewart James L. Turk
President Executive Director
OldSolduer
Army.ca Relic
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For what it's worth, I think Ann ain't had it in a few years.... >
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TheHead said:
TheHead, here's a fairly good explanation of Galloway's banning Hoax (unfortunately some of the links no longer work):
http://transmontanus.blogspot.com/2009/04/bank-accounts-frozen-court-summons.html
Here's a piece from Ezra Levant explaining why Galloway was denied entry to Canada:
http://ezralevant.com/2009/03/george-galloway.html
And another from Martin Levin:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/blogs/shelf-life/galloway-at-bay/article1138004/
Chow is conflating 2 separate issues.
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"Patriot Act"? Never heard of it.Teeps74 said:
Unless you mean the USA PATRIOT ACT, otherwise known by its full name: Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism (USA PATRIOT ACT) Act of 2001'
And though I'm certain you meant erosion of human rights, asserting that Ms. Coulter, Mr Levant, Styen, etc al are all "idiots" is slanderous, just so you know. Or libellous. I can't remember which is which. In any case, it's still ad hominem.
I know that Ms. Coulter has a bunch of post nominals. I also know that this doesn't necessarily mean that one is not an idiot, but even if she is, she's rather successful.
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Technoviking said:
ROFL you are funny. I call them idiots, because they are idiots. I would welcome a slander case on a subjective term like "idiot"... I seriously doubt that it would ever see the inside of a court room.
I would also argue, that anyone who maligns 1.6 billion human beings for the actions of a few thousand to be an idiot. Anne Coulture went on record at Western as an idiot in this little exchange:
http://www.torontosun.com/news/canada/2010/03/22/13322641-qmi.html
I could call that something else... Starts with a "b" ends with a "t" and has an "i", "g", and an "o" in between.
So, to be clear, yes, I am calling them all out as idiots. Fire away.
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You are anything but clear. You are calling her a bigot. Why would it be bigotry to suggest to a person from the middle east to ride a camel? Would it be bigotry to suggest to a person from Europe to ride a horse?Teeps74 said:
Re: the exchange at my alma mater, the question posed was nothing more than grandstanding by some young idealistic student (and good for her). Ms. Coulter replied in kind. Tie game, by my count.
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<slight tangent>
Libel (in Ontario, anyway) = "Defamatory words in a newspaper or in a broadcast"
Slander = "the broadcasting of spoken defamatory words"
Typing here looks like it would best fit the "harmful statement in a fixed medium, especially writing" pigeonhole, therefore it would be libel.
</slight tangent>
Let the discussion continue...
Libel (in Ontario, anyway) = "Defamatory words in a newspaper or in a broadcast"
Slander = "the broadcasting of spoken defamatory words"
Typing here looks like it would best fit the "harmful statement in a fixed medium, especially writing" pigeonhole, therefore it would be libel.
</slight tangent>
Let the discussion continue...
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Teeps, I't s larger than the personalities and credentials of the individuals mentioned by Thucydides; there are university professor who believe and teach that 9-11 never happened; these professors don't get any warning letters to watch what they say; in 2008 student union's across North America were linking with other groups to ban Jewish scholarship from campus (ridiculous because Jewish scholars are just as diverse in their thinking as any other university/western thought/group; some are pro-Palestinian); Why is it universities are not sending warnings out to professors many feel are contemptible and who I believe are undermining Canada?
Because university values/western values are based on dialectical expression; we wouldn't have advanced as a culture had we not allowed freedom of expression and research because it births thought and innovation. (I'd also argue that that's partly the reason some more totalitarian regimes are over here stealing our technology through espionage; their regimes don't allow freedom of expression or thought, they don't fund diverse research; and therefore can't innovate and invent; they can mechanically mass produce our ideas, though, and sell them back to us as product).
Allowing the Ann Coulters of the world to speak is critical. We sidestep an important opportunity to examine our commitment to enshrined classical liberal and democratic values like freedom of expression if we throw everyone into a pot labeled "idiot."
Some time in the near future, one of these "unpopular voices" is going to say something--something we might not want to hear-- that may sound an alarm in the west and may end up being our salvation--if we let them speak.
Ann Coulter is one of these boundary pushers who tests the limits of the values we hold dear. Even if I don't personally like what she has to say, I would fight for her freedom to say it.
Incidentally, Salman Rushdie was honoured in India yesterday and part of one speakers words were an apology that India was one of the first countries, out of fear to stand up to a tyrant, to ban the Satanic Verses. (Without even having read the book!!!) The speaker also mentioned the possibility that had the world community been more vehement, initially, in denouncing Khomeini's fatwa to censor Rushdie, we may not have moved on to find ourselves in a world characterized by jihadic threat and body scans. From censorship-fatwa to violent-jihad is a slippery slope.
Because university values/western values are based on dialectical expression; we wouldn't have advanced as a culture had we not allowed freedom of expression and research because it births thought and innovation. (I'd also argue that that's partly the reason some more totalitarian regimes are over here stealing our technology through espionage; their regimes don't allow freedom of expression or thought, they don't fund diverse research; and therefore can't innovate and invent; they can mechanically mass produce our ideas, though, and sell them back to us as product).
Allowing the Ann Coulters of the world to speak is critical. We sidestep an important opportunity to examine our commitment to enshrined classical liberal and democratic values like freedom of expression if we throw everyone into a pot labeled "idiot."
Some time in the near future, one of these "unpopular voices" is going to say something--something we might not want to hear-- that may sound an alarm in the west and may end up being our salvation--if we let them speak.
Ann Coulter is one of these boundary pushers who tests the limits of the values we hold dear. Even if I don't personally like what she has to say, I would fight for her freedom to say it.
Incidentally, Salman Rushdie was honoured in India yesterday and part of one speakers words were an apology that India was one of the first countries, out of fear to stand up to a tyrant, to ban the Satanic Verses. (Without even having read the book!!!) The speaker also mentioned the possibility that had the world community been more vehement, initially, in denouncing Khomeini's fatwa to censor Rushdie, we may not have moved on to find ourselves in a world characterized by jihadic threat and body scans. From censorship-fatwa to violent-jihad is a slippery slope.
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I stand by both of my statements. Maligning an entire religion because of the actions of a few, at the very least is idiocy (and I am being extremely generous in that assessment).
Having served alongside of Muslims in the Canadian Forces, and worked with ANP and ANA, I find her (and their) treatment of our Islamic allies in the Coalition in Afghanistan and our brethren in uniform HIGHLY offensive, and idiotic.
She has full right to open her mouth and prove my statements correct. Bigotry and idiocy are not crimes in North America, and we value free speech as a hallmark of our society. Free speech however goes both ways, and attempting to silence the counter point is against free speech and everything we hold dear... This is a concept that apparently eludes most on the fringes of both the left and right of the political spectrum.
At no point in time did I suggest we need to shut her up... In point of fact, we need her on camera and on-line as much as humanly possible. The ideas she (and others) present must be debated, so that we as a species grow and educate ourselves beyond our xenophobic tendencies. We can not debate them if we silence them.
Having served alongside of Muslims in the Canadian Forces, and worked with ANP and ANA, I find her (and their) treatment of our Islamic allies in the Coalition in Afghanistan and our brethren in uniform HIGHLY offensive, and idiotic.
She has full right to open her mouth and prove my statements correct. Bigotry and idiocy are not crimes in North America, and we value free speech as a hallmark of our society. Free speech however goes both ways, and attempting to silence the counter point is against free speech and everything we hold dear... This is a concept that apparently eludes most on the fringes of both the left and right of the political spectrum.
At no point in time did I suggest we need to shut her up... In point of fact, we need her on camera and on-line as much as humanly possible. The ideas she (and others) present must be debated, so that we as a species grow and educate ourselves beyond our xenophobic tendencies. We can not debate them if we silence them.
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I'll side firmly with Teeps here. The folks mentioned make a living on scaremongering, spreading what is essentially falsehoods, either by distorting truth or putting things into a context chosen to essentially rewrite history. Glenn Beck makes his living shilling the revisionist historical ideas of man whose views were so far out that his fellow Mormons rejected him - W. Cleon Skousen. Rush Limbaugh is a pathetic vitriolic hypocrite whose racism is thinly veiled. Coulter - well Ezra Levant tried to call her a satirist. I hope that she is because what she claims to believe is nonsensical, but if she's trying to do satire she sucks at it.
The idea that these people decry losses of liberty when they support politicians who have plunged nations into debt, into wars, into recessions, who are in the process of rewriting history to suit their theocratic Weltanschauung - is ridiculous. It's disturbing because the people who listen to them don't seem to have any clue that they're being fed a steady diet of idiotic bullshit.
As for bigotry, Coulter suggesting someone from the Middle East ride a camel, in the context which she said it, was inflammatory (of course, that's her schtick) and smacked of bigotry. Hardly a decent response to the question, though it was pointed. And hardly the first time she's spewed a raftload of stupid shyte about various groups.
The idea that these people decry losses of liberty when they support politicians who have plunged nations into debt, into wars, into recessions, who are in the process of rewriting history to suit their theocratic Weltanschauung - is ridiculous. It's disturbing because the people who listen to them don't seem to have any clue that they're being fed a steady diet of idiotic bullshit.
As for bigotry, Coulter suggesting someone from the Middle East ride a camel, in the context which she said it, was inflammatory (of course, that's her schtick) and smacked of bigotry. Hardly a decent response to the question, though it was pointed. And hardly the first time she's spewed a raftload of stupid shyte about various groups.
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Mid Aged Silverback said:For what it's worth, I think Ann ain't had it in a few years.... >
You know you still would...
[Crickets]
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So, they lie? Putting things into context that fits your own point of view is called persuasion.Redeye said:
Here we go. G W Bush started 9/11, caused AIDS and all things bad. There is no move afoot by Ms. Coulter to force a theocracy on us. Or by the others for that matter. I suppose that I don't realise that I'm being fed a steady diet of bullshit then. Well, pardon me whilst I go back to the south bound end of this north bound bull and get another spoon ful.Redeye said:
Yeah, she's over the top. So is Borat (or whatever his name is). Michael Moore is another of Ms. Coulter's vein, but he gets Oscars, and Ms. Coulter is first reminded of freedom of speech laws, and then is muzzled. Now that is comedy! But I disagree that suggesting someone from the middle east ride a camel is bigotry. Have you ever been to the Middle East? I have. I've seen them riding camels and donkeys. But, you're right, it was inflammatory, equally so to the loaded question asked of her. To be fair, the 17 year old moslem student could have retorted "My camel was stopped at customs, so can I borrow your broom?"Redeye said:
Now I have to go find me some more bullshit. My mind is weak and I cannot bear to think thoughts for more than ten minutes. I hope Rush is on soon!
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Here's Coulter speaking about the non-event in Ottawa from Calgary last night:
Just thought some here might like to hear what she HERSELF has to say about what happened in Ottawa.
From The O'Reilly Factor
http://www.foxnews.com/oreilly/
leroi's last word: if universities don't issue warnings to professors--which they don't--who teach students things like: Canada invaded Haiti (the recent aid mission was a cover up for an attempted invasion by Canada so don't donate any money) and, Afghanistan is also an invasion by Canada; 9-11 never happened the way we've been told; or this gem; 9-11 was orchestrated by George Bush, then university administration has no business warning Ann Coulter regarding what she can and cannot say in a pre-emptive strike DESIGNED to limit her freedom of expression. I won't even get into campus communists co-opting student fee financed papers for propaganda purposes and walls plastered with hate posters of a demonized Prime Minister Harper done up in the artistic stylized trope of Nazi Propaganda posters; or attitudes toward CF members and their leadership.
Universities in Canada have become scary places in the last 10 years and that's why it's important that alternate voices from the other end of the political spectrum CRITICALLY be heard.
Promise, that's my last word ...
Just thought some here might like to hear what she HERSELF has to say about what happened in Ottawa.
From The O'Reilly Factor
http://www.foxnews.com/oreilly/
leroi's last word: if universities don't issue warnings to professors--which they don't--who teach students things like: Canada invaded Haiti (the recent aid mission was a cover up for an attempted invasion by Canada so don't donate any money) and, Afghanistan is also an invasion by Canada; 9-11 never happened the way we've been told; or this gem; 9-11 was orchestrated by George Bush, then university administration has no business warning Ann Coulter regarding what she can and cannot say in a pre-emptive strike DESIGNED to limit her freedom of expression. I won't even get into campus communists co-opting student fee financed papers for propaganda purposes and walls plastered with hate posters of a demonized Prime Minister Harper done up in the artistic stylized trope of Nazi Propaganda posters; or attitudes toward CF members and their leadership.
Universities in Canada have become scary places in the last 10 years and that's why it's important that alternate voices from the other end of the political spectrum CRITICALLY be heard.
Promise, that's my last word ...
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