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another thread titled a few questions about Basic

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SupersonicMax said:
Where does it say that, George?  Recce, where does it say it requires a memo?

Well, for the past 20 years it's been SOP to submit one anytime I wanted to wear it, as did my peers and subordinates, during leave.

It's for wearing DEUs, not combats at that. He's traveling to a foreign country and requires permission to go as well.

I don't have the references in my house at 2333 hours and I'm on pre-deployment leave....do some homework on Tuesday in your spare time.

Regards
 
I knwo you require permission to travel abroad.  However, I've never seen any reference saying you can't wear anything other than DEU.  Unfortunately, I'm travelling to Cold Lake on Tuesday, so I can't really check the references...
 
SupersonicMax said:
I knwo you require permission to travel abroad.  However, I've never seen any reference saying you can't wear anything other than DEU.  Unfortunately, I'm travelling to Cold Lake on Tuesday, so I can't really check the references...

DEUs or CADPAT asside, you canot self-authorize. Thats why theres a yes or no box.
 
SupersonicMax said:
Where does it say that, George?  Recce, where does it say it requires a memo?

What did they teach you in officer school?

CFAO 16-1 Leave

DRESS ON LEAVE
14.    The wearing of uniform while on leave is governed by  QR&O 17.04,
When Uniform To Be Worn, and the CF Dress Manual.  An Officer Commanding a
Command (OCC) may prescribe the conditions governing the wearing of uniform
on leave by members serving under his command.

15.    Members travelling in service aircraft on leave shall wear a uniform
unless the wearing of civilian clothes has been authorized in accordance
with 20-20, Service Airlift -Personnel.

==================================================

QR&O 17.04

17.04 – WHEN UNIFORM WORN

(1) Unless the Chief of the Defence Staff otherwise directs, an officer or non-commissioned member:

    (a) on duty shall wear uniform; and

    (b) not on duty may wear civilian clothes.

(2) An officer or non-commissioned member who desires to wear uniform while on leave outside Canada shall request permission to do so at the time that the member applies for the leave.

(3) Paragraph (2) does not apply to an officer or non-commissioned member serving in a ship outside Canada when on leave at or in the vicinity of a port, in which the ship is lying.

(4) When a request for permission to wear uniform is made under paragraph (2), the authority having power to approve the leave:

    (a) may, subject to any restrictions imposed by the Chief of the Defence Staff, approve the request if the leave is to be spent in any country

         (i) of the Commonwealth,

         (ii) of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, or

          (iii) in which Canadian Forces are stationed in accordance with any instrument entered into by Canada; and

    (b) shall, in all other cases, refer the request to National Defence Headquarters.

(5) Where permission is granted to wear uniform on leave outside Canada, the authority granting the leave shall record the permission on the leave form and, where permission has been given under subparagraph (4)(b):

    (a) if the authority granting the leave is outside Canada, he shall:

         (i) inform the Canadian representative in the country concerned, or

         (ii) if there is no Canadian representative in the country concerned, inform the representative of the United Kingdom; and

    (b) if the authority granting the leave is in Canada, the Chief of the Defence Staff shall cause the Department of External Affairs to be notified.

============================================================================================




17.01 – UNIFORMS

Members of the Canadian Forces shall wear the uniforms prescribed by the Chief of the Defence Staff.


17.02 – PERSONAL APPEARANCE

The dress and appearance of officers and non-commissioned members shall on all occasions be such as to reflect credit on the Service.

==========================================================================================

CANADIAN FORCES DRESS INSTRUCTIONS    A-AD-265-000/AG-001

CHAPTER 1

INTRODUCTION

10.  To ensure that the required standard for the wear of uniform in public is maintained, local dress instructions shall conform to policy approved by the Chief of the Defence Staff.  Commanders shall not permit diminishment of this standard.  Only service dress orders of dress are prescribed for:

    a.  unrestricted wear in public;

    b.  wear by personnel on regularly scheduled CF passenger aircraft; and

    c.  wear by personnel when travelling on duty in uniform regardless of the means of transportation being used.

11.  Commanders may limit orders of service dress acceptable for wear in public.

12.  Other categories of dress may be authorized to be worn in public by members whose duties require them to do so.  Wear of such orders of dress is restricted to travel to and from place of duty.  Only essential stopovers, authorized by Commanders of Commands to meet local requirements, may be permitted.

===================================================================================


SERVICE DRESS is DEUs, not COMBAT/CADPAT.

 
CDN Aviator, but ticking that box and you CO signing the leave pass, it does authorizes you doesn't it?

GW:  Officer School was 8 years ago. My memory isn't ethernal :D

Max
 
George Wallace said:
CFAO 16-1 Leave

DRESS ON LEAVE
14.    The wearing of uniform while on leave is governed by  QR&O 17.04,
When Uniform To Be Worn, and the CF Dress Manual.  An Officer Commanding a
Command (OCC) may prescribe the conditions governing the wearing of uniform
on leave by members serving under his command.

15.    Members travelling in service aircraft on leave shall wear a uniform
unless the wearing of civilian clothes has been authorized in accordance
with 20-20, Service Airlift -Personnel.

==================================================

QR&O 17.04

17.04 – WHEN UNIFORM WORN

(1) Unless the Chief of the Defence Staff otherwise directs, an officer or non-commissioned member:

    (a) on duty shall wear uniform; and

    (b) not on duty may wear civilian clothes.

(2) An officer or non-commissioned member who desires to wear uniform while on leave outside Canada shall request permission to do so at the time that the member applies for the leave.

<snip>

Thanks George.

Regards
 
SupersonicMax said:
GW:  Officer School was 8 years ago. My memory isn't ethernal :D

Max

It may have been eight years ago, but some of those points should have been engraved into your brain.  Dress and Deportment.  Walking Out Dress.  Dress Regs. 
 
I'm sorry it didn't.  I didn't memorize every chapter of the CFAO QR&O on dress and deportment.  IMHO, if I can refer to it or get refered to it, I'm good to go.  If I know, I know.  If I don't, I'll check before I do anything. 

Rules change.  Habbits don't.
 
SupersonicMax said:
I'm sorry it didn't.  I didn't memorize every chapter of the CFAO QR&O on dress and deportment.  IMHO, if I can refer to it or get refered to it, I'm good to go.  If I know, I know.  If I don't, I'll check before I do anything. 

Rules change.  Habbits don't.

???

OK.  What military did you join?  Dress and Deportment have been drilled into Recruits (Officer and NCM alike) from day one of Enrolment.  This is something no member of the CF can claim ignorance about.



Oh!  Just to add.  In case any of you are Charged for not following the Dress Codes laid out by the CF and you plead that you didn't know; well that won't wash.  You were told, even if it was years ago at Recruit School.  The majic words there are: "You were told" when you received your Instruction of where, when and how to wear your uniform at Recruit School and in various Orders since you joined.
 
SupersonicMax said:
CDN Aviator, but ticking that box and you CO signing the leave pass, it does authorizes you doesn't it?

Yes but you missed my point. The CO authorizes it, not you. If he doesnt want you to, he will send the leave pass back to you.

What part of "you cant self-authorize" did you not understand ?
 
I know I can't self authorize it, and I've never did it's okay to do it.  I said tick the box, the CO will sign it if he feels it's okay.  It's not HIS job to tick the box.  You don't need a memo to "authorize" you to wear your Uniform!  The leave pass is sufficient.
 
George Wallace said:
???

OK.  What military did you join?  Dress and Deportment have been drilled into Recruits (Officer and NCM alike) from day one of Enrolment.  This is something no member of the CF can claim ignorance about.



Oh!  Just to add.  In case any of you are Charged for not following the Dress Codes laid out by the CF and you plead that you didn't know; well that won't wash.  You were told, even if it was years ago at Recruit School.   The majic words there are: "You were told" when you received your Instruction of where, when and how to wear your uniform at Recruit School and in various Orders since you joined.

Yup, dress and deportment were "drilled" into us, just not EVERY single small aspect of it (we didn't have much leave on my BOTC, 2 week ends if I recall, so we couldn't really have "drilled" into us this aspect of D&D).  What they did though was tell us where to look to find regs, which is, IMHO, much more important than knowing them by heart.  As I said, regs change.  How to look for them don't.  Anytime I have a doubt on something, or I'm about to do something that has the potential to put me in a lot of trouble if I do it wrong, I look at the regs.  Always worked so far.   Oh, and if I took example on my Platoon Commander, I would have been charged and dishonorably discharged from the CF for what he did on our BOTC...  That is the officer school I went to...

Max
 
I'm not saying I,m right, however I think the way I do things have been working out great for me so far. 

I'm glad I amaze you.
 
SupersonicMax said:
I'm not saying I,m right, however I think the way I do things have been working out great for me so far. 

Dont worry, us NCOs will pick up the slack. I'm expected to know the regs so i can correct people on the spot. having to say " dont move until i can check the book" ruins the effect.
 
CDN Aviator, nobody has been picking up the slack for me, but thank you.
 
SupersonicMax said:
I'm not saying I,m right, however I think the way I do things have been working out great for me so far. 

I'm glad I amaze you.

.....and being a troll will get you smoked. Here's the lowdown. Quit being an ass and arguing because your in your room with no friends and nothing to do. Your whole last bout of idiocy was immature, stupid and totally uncalled for from a person supposedly of your rank. Turn off your computer and go find a friend to have a beer with and quit wasting our time with your inane posts. Better yet, get your CWO to explain the facts of life to you. Take him a list and see how far you get with this line of argumentation.

Need it spelt out clearer for you?

Good for you. You've gotten another thread locked.

Milnet.ca Staff
 
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