AOR Replacement & the Joint Support Ship (Merged Threads)

[Halifax Tar]

Excellent. Thanks.

Cue someone opining about Asterix.

You really have a a bone in your craw about Asterix eh ?

 

[Underway]

Thank you so 40-42 months would not be unreasonable?

Honestly it depends on a whole lot. When you build something the first time how long does it take? Something as simple as LEGO (I think we can all relate). You follow the plan, you count the blocks it takes you half a day (Xmas morning) to build the spaceship. You rip it apart and then some time later you try it again. It goes twice as fast. You recognize the parts, you already presorted the bricks etc...

Korea can build tankers fast because they essentially have assembly lined them. JSS is a line of two ships. It's basically artesian. To actually make (not including design) it was supposed to take 3.5 years, then covid moved that up to 5 years (a delay of 18 months). I don't think 3.5 years to build a moving, floating, fueling apartment complex is unreasonable. 5 years is too long but what are you going to do with a pandemic? The subcontractors really had hard time meeting deadlines. The yard had their own challenges (some self inflicted for sure)

 

[lenaitch]

Honestly it depends on a whole lot. When you build something the first time how long does it take? Something as simple as LEGO (I think we can all relate). You follow the plan, you count the blocks it takes you half a day (Xmas morning) to build the spaceship. You rip it apart and then some time later you try it again. It goes twice as fast. You recognize the parts, you already presorted the bricks etc...

Korea can build tankers fast because they essentially have assembly lined them. JSS is a line of two ships. It's basically artesian. To actually make (not including design) it was supposed to take 3.5 years, then covid moved that up to 5 years (a delay of 18 months). I don't think 3.5 years to build a moving, floating, fueling apartment complex is unreasonable. 5 years is too long but what are you going to do with a pandemic? The subcontractors really had hard time meeting deadlines. The yard had their own challenges (some self inflicted for sure)

Good post but I think autocorrect bit you. Something that is "artesian" on a ship would be a bad thing. 'Artisanal' perhaps.

 

[MTShaw]

You really have a a bone in your craw about Asterix eh ?

NoNe whatsoever.

The problem is that people seem to unreasonably love that ship. It is a slick ship that does almost none of what many governments over time said were needed.

I’ll leave it that.

 

[FSTO]

NoNe whatsoever.

The problem is that people seem to unreasonably love that ship. It is a slick ship that does almost none of what many governments over time said were needed.

I’ll leave it that.

That's why its called interim AOR. It was acquired to fill a critical gap in our capabilities. And I would argue quite forcefully in the way we plan to employ our JSS's is not and would not be acceptable by our allies.

 

[MTShaw]

That's why its called interim AOR. It was acquired to fill a critical gap in our capabilities. And I would argue quite forcefully in the way we plan to employ our JSS's is not and would not be acceptable by our allies.

Why would it be unacceptable to our allies. Why would how we choose to employ our AORs and battle groups Need approval from our please? Why would they care in the first place.

 

[Spencer100]

That's why its called interim AOR. It was acquired to fill a critical gap in our capabilities. And I would argue quite forcefully in the way we plan to employ our JSS's is not and would not be acceptable by our allies.

Battle Tanker?

 

[FSTO]

Why would it be unacceptable to our allies. Why would how we choose to employ our AORs and battle groups Need approval from our please? Why would they care in the first place.

In Gulf War 1 our AOR ran around the Gulf like it was bloody destroyer until the Combatant Commander ordered it into the AOR Box where it could be properly managed and protected.

If we want to use our AOR as we see fit during peacetime, fill our boots! But when the bullets fly and there is a dearth of supply ships (which there will be of course) getting our 1 AOR blown up because we were bloody fools is not a coherent course of action!

 

[MTShaw]

That's why its called interim AOR. It was acquired to fill a critical gap in our capabilities. And I would argue quite forcefully in the way we plan to employ our JSS's is not and would not be acceptable by our allies.

Interim AOR LOL. Davie will ride this forever. You asked me why i had a problem with Asterix and you got an answer.

 

[MTShaw]

In Gulf War 1 our AOR ran around the Gulf like it was bloody destroyer until the Combatant Commander ordered it into the AOR Box where it could be properly managed and protected.

If we want to use our AOR as we see fit during peacetime, fill our boots! But when the bullets fly and there is a dearth of supply ships (which there will be of course) getting our 1 AOR blown up because we were bloody fools is not a coherent course of action!

What does the 1st Gulf War have to do with SNMG 1 or 2, or operation Neon have to do with current doctrine?

 

[FSTO]

What does the 1st Gulf War have to do with SNMG 1 or 2, or operation Neon have to do with current doctrine?

What do you want our AOR to do?

In my mind its this - Resupply the fleet safely and efficiently, and conduct HADR operations when required.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

For something like piracy patrols, could not a AOR be deployed singly as a support and Task Force commander with other nation ships? For that role other than the sensors do you need a CSC?

 

[MTShaw]

What do you want our AOR to do?

In my mind its this - Resupply the fleet safely and efficiently, and conduct HADR operations when required.

I guess sucessive governments had bigger ambitions. I have no idea why they added Fleet command to them, but there it is. It has to had passed many review so. My point about Asterix is that it does not meet a number of requirements.

That’s it. No hate.

Also if war their is another gulf war, no ships are going into the Persian gulf Until it’s almost over.

 

[Halifax Tar]

NoNe whatsoever.

The problem is that people seem to unreasonably love that ship. It is a slick ship that does almost none of what many governments over time said were needed.

I’ll leave it that.

The current sailors love it because it's a cruise ship compared to CPFs.

I haven't meat a sailor who's sailed her that said anything bad. And I can't blame them.

It's a pure tanker. And does that well. And I've done jackstays for food as well with her.

I started out on Preserver. Battle tanker for life lol

 

[MTShaw]

The current sailors love it because it's a cruise ship compared to CPFs.

I haven't meat a sailor who's sailed her that said anything bad. And I can't blame them.

It's a pure tanker. And does that well. And I've done jackstays for food as well with her.

I started out on Preserver. Battle tanker for life lol

I wonder if part of the displacement inflation in modern frigates is treating sailors like humans. Perhaps it will help in both recuitment and retention.

 

[Navy_Pete]

I wonder if part of the displacement inflation in modern frigates is treating sailors like humans. Perhaps it will help in both recuitment and retention.

Nope, we've had the same guidelines for space allowances for about 50 years, it's just something you can't really accomodate on warships due to the equipment density. Even though electronics have gotten smaller over time it hasn't gotten any better as we simply use the extra room to put in more kit.

Planning for bigger crews at the start is actually better from that perspective; when you sail the ships with less people you can spread them across messes so they get more personal space, but when the bunks are full at least everyone has designated space.

Lot better than realizing after the ship is built that you need more people, and you do things like convert double bunks to triples, sleeping on unsecured cots in weird spaces not meant to be occupied all the time and some other sketchy solutions.

Sailing on the 280s with 200 people when you have space for almost 300 was nicer than sailing on a CPF with 270 people when you have room for 250. So I'm sure we'll build CSC for 180 people (and no training bunks) and then deploy with 250, while wondering why we don't have enough bunks for people to get sea time.

 

[MTShaw]

Nope, we've had the same guidelines for space allowances for about 50 years, it's just something you can't really accomodate on warships due to the equipment density. Even though electronics have gotten smaller over time it hasn't gotten any better as we simply use the extra room to put in more kit.

Planning for bigger crews at the start is actually better from that perspective; when you sail the ships with less people you can spread them across messes so they get more personal space, but when the bunks are full at least everyone has designated space.

Lot better than realizing after the ship is built that you need more people, and you do things like convert double bunks to triples, sleeping on unsecured cots in weird spaces not meant to be occupied all the time and some other sketchy solutions.

Sailing on the 280s with 200 people when you have space for almost 300 was nicer than sailing on a CPF with 270 people when you have room for 250. So I'm sure we'll build CSC for 180 people (and no training bunks) and then deploy with 250, while wondering why we don't have enough bunks for people to get sea time.

Damn specifications.

 

[MTShaw]

HI Everyone,

Below is a local newspaper talking about the JSS with mentions of JSS2 and OSFV.

Navy's joint support ship taking shape at Seaspan shipyard

Pandemic supply chain issues have pushed the delivery dates of both Navy ships back two years, but progress on the first joint support ship is unmistakable. from Vancouver Harbour.

www.nsnews.com

 

[BdaDug]

HI Everyone,

Below is a local newspaper talking about the JSS with mentions of JSS2 and OSFV.

Navy's joint support ship taking shape at Seaspan shipyard

Pandemic supply chain issues have pushed the delivery dates of both Navy ships back two years, but progress on the first joint support ship is unmistakable. from Vancouver Harbour.

www.nsnews.com

Interesting to read that the second JSS is under initial construction as well ... good to read. Thanks for sharing the article!

 

[calculus]

Interesting to read that the second JSS is under initial construction as well ... good to read. Thanks for sharing the article!

I don't believe construction has started on the second JSS. Glad to be proven wrong however!