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There are too many AORs in NATO…said no one, ever.
AOR Replacement & the Joint Support Ship (Merged Threads)
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Rainbow1910
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If Federal Fleet tries to push the same contract they hoisted the Canadian Government with, they’ll quickly find minimal customers for a slapdash, heavily used conversion.
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Was it a very bad contract?
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The slapdash conversion, that was originally contracted for five years was heavily used.
It was used for a further five years.
It is still fulfilling its assigned role.
And apparently still has life in her.
How bad was that contract?
Halifax Tar
Army.ca Legend
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There is a segment in the RCN and RCN adjacent who are very anti Asterix.
Possible, Or they may find they are in high demand, make tons of money and get more oiler ships in their fleet. It's not like the US is adverse to paying top dollar for defense items.
I'm sure when Omega started up many thought they would fail. Their website says they have flown 10,500 missions. Wiki says they have 5 planes. If Federal Fleet can copy that with AOR I'm sure they would be quite happy.
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RFA 2/7 ca May 2024
www.navylookout.com
Diminishing strength of the Royal Fleet Auxiliary undermines the Royal Navy’s global reach - Navy Lookout
When we summarised the condition of the RFA at the end of 2023 it was clear the service was facing significant challenges. In the last few months there has been little improvement and dissatisfaction amongst the shrinking workforce has come to a head. 2 out of 7 Of the 7 RFA vessels built to...
www.navylookout.com
Rainbow1910
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From what I recall, the RCN/Govt is well over the $1B mark for the MV Asterix contract with an additional $100m~ wiggle room costs per year, due to a bunch of weasel clauses which Federal Fleet uses to nickel and dime the government for items not covered in the contract. I don't particularly think it was a well thought out idea, but Federal Fleet managed to take advantage of the Canadian Govt at an inopportune time due to their own incompetence and has seemingly made out like a bandit for doing so.
Davie buys the ship for $20m, spends $300m to do a budget conversion (outsource the superstructure from abroad, don’t put baffles in the fuel tanks, deliver it in questionable condition, etc), rents it out to the RCN for over $1B and change over the years and demands over $700m for an outright purchase? All of this for a vessel that we won't even own at the end of the day, we'd have to buy it from Federal Fleet.
I personally think we should have taken all of this money and had somebody like the Koreans build us an interim vessel from the ground up, which the RCN itself would have owned, manned and operated. It wouldn't have been popular with the domestic politics especially in Quebec, but Asterix seems like such a ripoff that it makes Irving look like amateurs in comparison. Easy to get away with theft when you can sell it to the politicians and voter base.
MV Asterix had literally the best circumstances humanly possible to succeed, the total absence of competition, big domestic political swelling of support for the contract, a lack of competent planning for prompt replacements for the prior vessels and the multiple delays which pushed the Protecteur class further and further into the future. The RCN desperately needed a resupply vessel and Davie delivered a largely workable platform, that doesn't paper over the apparent issues with the conversion and the exploitative nature of the contract itself.
Canada largely agreed to the terms of the contract Federal Fleet had offered because our own incompetent planning had left us without any alternatives, Federal Fleet almost certainly won't have the same luck with other customers abroad especially when a big reason for its contract success was an up swelling of political support in Quebec. They'll have to lower their costs and make a future contract much more appealing to customers, especially once the vessel is released from her decade of hard service with the RCN. DND has been seemingly not very convinced of the 40 year service life post conversion Davie claims, saying they think the vessel is more realistically going to have a service life of 16~ years.
I understand you are sore about the costs of Asterix. Those were all GOC's fault. Davie did not sail the AOR's with insufficient maintenance. Davie did not wait way too long to issue replacement contracts. Davie did not then delay those contracts repeatedly.
If I don't change the oil in my car and my engine seizes and I am therefore forced to rent a car to get to work I cannot complain about the rental car cost. If I am offered a cheap replacement car to purchase and I refuse that car because its an 80% solution for my needs I have no grounds to complain.
I may be wrong but I seem to remember Davie wanted to sell the Asterix to the Navy and they refused. Asterix is not exactly what the Navy wanted but it does haul gas. GOC could have bought it under Transport Canada or something else and operated it just like Federal Fleet.
What Davie did do is supply a replenishment ship in short order and then sail that ship around the world for 7 years providing fuel to many many ships along the way.
Call a plumber and quote a renovation, Then call the plumber when your pipe bursts in the middle of the night and see how the hourly rates change. When you screw up and need someone to bail you out it costs money. That is life.
At the end of the day GOC signed those contracts with Davie. If your right and Davie has crazy high margins then they will have room to lower their prices and still operate Asterix profitably for any one who needs her services. From I see many NATO countries are short on Oiler capacity and could use her.
If Asterix's op tempo has run her ragged Davie should be able to afford a refit from all the money they made. And they can get it done in no time because they don't need GOC approval to do it.
My original post is Federal Fleet owns a ship that has demand, They would be stupid to not try and offer that ship to other potential customers. If none want it then they will likely sell it or scrap it. However I don't think they will have a hard time finding customers for her.
If I don't change the oil in my car and my engine seizes and I am therefore forced to rent a car to get to work I cannot complain about the rental car cost. If I am offered a cheap replacement car to purchase and I refuse that car because its an 80% solution for my needs I have no grounds to complain.
I may be wrong but I seem to remember Davie wanted to sell the Asterix to the Navy and they refused. Asterix is not exactly what the Navy wanted but it does haul gas. GOC could have bought it under Transport Canada or something else and operated it just like Federal Fleet.
What Davie did do is supply a replenishment ship in short order and then sail that ship around the world for 7 years providing fuel to many many ships along the way.
Call a plumber and quote a renovation, Then call the plumber when your pipe bursts in the middle of the night and see how the hourly rates change. When you screw up and need someone to bail you out it costs money. That is life.
At the end of the day GOC signed those contracts with Davie. If your right and Davie has crazy high margins then they will have room to lower their prices and still operate Asterix profitably for any one who needs her services. From I see many NATO countries are short on Oiler capacity and could use her.
If Asterix's op tempo has run her ragged Davie should be able to afford a refit from all the money they made. And they can get it done in no time because they don't need GOC approval to do it.
My original post is Federal Fleet owns a ship that has demand, They would be stupid to not try and offer that ship to other potential customers. If none want it then they will likely sell it or scrap it. However I don't think they will have a hard time finding customers for her.
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You're both not wrong.
I'm not a Davie supporter, and I think Asterix has issues including the contract. However....
It provided (and still provides) a capability that was sorely needed, a platform to keep our RAS supply skills from atrophying, and time needed to get the JSS in the water.
The opportunity cost to relearn those skills, and the potential risk in losing that skill set and capability was way to high, and we paid to keep it. Asterix was critical in ensuring that France and UK were able to evacuate citizens from Africa (I forget which conflict now), as they were in the Red Sea at the time, with no other assets. If there had of been any other conflict we would have had a resource available.
So yah, not the best contract, could have done it better, but worth every penny.
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I still think we need a fullsome Fleet Auxiliary. It would help provide the navy with crew, be a pipeline for merchant marine cadets to get seatime on a Canadian flagged ship, which means future ship masters and Pilots. We need a bit more "All of government/Canada" approach and not just a silo of what is good for each Department.
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