Appropriate to call in the SAR-TECH's?

[Civvymedic]

The attached article describes an excercise "Hide and seek in East Cross Forest" would it be appropriate in this setting to call in CF SAR?

If so who calls? Is the Municiaplity billed? and is there a protocol to allow Municipalities to readily know when to ask for this kind of assistance.

Ive been invloved in several situations over the years where we search for hours in a wooded area for someone, or "borrow" a boat to go out and rescue someone in the lake holding onto a buoy, or floating from an overturned canoe. Our Marine unit is limited in non-summer seasons.

Ive suggested a few times to call Trenton as were pretty close and usually get the "well I guess we could but well just go get them" and so we manage.

Just curious as to protocol and thoughts on this one so I can pass it on.

Thanks.

http://newsdurhamregion.com/news/breaking%20News/article/102671

 

[Blackadder1916]

This is from the National Search and Rescue Secretariat (NSS) website.
https://www.nss.gc.ca/sar_directory/orgsByProvince_e.asp?province=6

The Ontario Provincial Police is responsible for security and public safety in the province. This includes land and inland water search and rescue activities in Ontario. Ground SAR coordination is promoted through the Ontario SAR Advisory Council and carried out through Emergency Management Ontario. A number of volunteer organizations in the province provide SAR support to the OPP when requested.

Sounds as if your department needs to do some research and update (or start) an emergency response plan, and then disseminate the information.

 

[Zoomie]

Ground searching is the job of the province/territory and their resources.  Most communities in BC have their own volunteer GSAR unit, a highly trained unit of unpaid locals who know the area and are available for call out by the Province and by JRCC (if required).

In this scenario, JRCC would only be contacted if the on scene rescuers were unable to remove the victim and require a helicopter with hoisting capability.

In the case of water rescue - usually the province is tasked with providing the service.  If they cannot facilitate the rescue, they must contact JRCC directly and then the province is responsible for any costs.

 

[Blackadder1916]

Organization and Responsibility for SAR in Canada
http://www.nss.gc.ca/site/whoWeAre/101org_e.asp

Search and rescue falls into three natural categories - marine, air and ground.

The categories overlap to some extent, but there are obvious differences in the types of SAR skills and equipment needed. Sometimes a rescue entails flying a highly sophisticated helicopter through severe weather to hoist someone from a sinking ship; sometimes what is needed is the skilled eye of a trained tracker working through an urban park.

SAR responsibilities are also organized by jurisdiction - federal and provincial/territorial.

FEDERAL JURISDICTION
Six federal departments and agencies are involved in SAR response and prevention activities:

National Defence, Canadian Forces
Fisheries and Oceans, Canadian Coast Guard
Royal Canadian Mounted Police
Environment Canada
Meteorological Service of Canada
Parks Canada
Transport Canada

Each is also represented on the Interdepartmental Committee on Search and Rescue (ICSAR), which is chaired and co-ordinated by the National Search and Rescue Secretariat.

Generally speaking, the Canadian Forces and CASARA (Civil Air Search And Rescue Association) provide air resources for SAR incidents under federal jurisdiction (aircraft incidents and all marine incidents in waters under federal jurisdiction, which includes the Great Lakes).

The Canadian Coast Guard and the Canadian Coast Guard Auxiliary provide primary marine resources.

Parks Canada provides search and rescue services within national parks, national marine conservation areas and reserves, national historic sites and historic canals.

Outside national parks, the RCMP responds to SAR incidents in all provinces (except Ontario and Quebec), the territories and various municipalities.

The Meteorological Service of Canada provides information on climate, weather, ice and other environmental issues of particular interest to the SAR community.

And Transport Canada fosters safe and secure transportation.

PROVINCIAL/TERRITORIAL JURISDICTION
Each province and territory has its own SAR system, which can involve provincial police, the RCMP, volunteer associations and municipalities. Hundreds of skilled groups across Canada, many of them volunteers, are active in ground, air, and marine SAR.

Consult the Directory of Canadian SAR Organizations or SAR Links - Canada for more information.

 

[S.Stewart]

Being as I am currently living in the Kwartha Lakes area, I can tell you that there are many volunteer SAR groups up through the area, and in Oshawa which are used for such a purpose.

The OPP and MNR in Lindsay also have done SAR work, and have no issues lending a hand when needed. This includes the standard ground search for persons lost, missing and marine SAR (there is actually a marine volunteer SAR unit out of Oshawa), they have also qualified to conduct searches that include body recovery, and burial site search if needed.

http://osarva.nt.net/

The above link is to the Ontario Search and Rescue Volunteer Assoc, it has an entire list of all the volunteer SAR units in Ontario, what they do, and where they are, including contact info. All these units as shown are volunteer so there is no cost to the municipality from their end.

Obviously if any local services are used, police, fire etc, then that is the town/city's time and money.

Note, google is a wonderful thing. If you google Search and Rescue, Ontario that website is the first one up.

I personally have volunteered my time on a few various SAR crews, and I will tell you that everything comes from our own pocket, including specific equipment mandated to have, such as load bearing vests, rucks, footware, we also have to pay our own certification courses.

I own everything from my own climbing equipment, to other personal safety gear. I don't expect tax payers or the province to pay for any of these things, as it is my choice if I wish to donate my time and services, and it is worth it in the end, if you get the chance to return someone to their family, no matter the outcome or the situation.   

 

[Civvymedic]

Thanks for all of the responses. Some of the answers that I was looking for are here.

I am quite familliar with some of the volunteer SAR teams and they do a great job.

Although I agree they are readily available throughout southern Ontario I have found that often enough by the time they mobilize we already have the job done.

Thanks for the links to some info found on Google, Im familiar with it but I was truly curious to see if anyone thought that the CF SAR assests could be used more often and if there is a lack of knowledge amongst Emergency services especially in southern Ontario as to what they can offer. I suspect there is.

 

[Blackadder1916]

. . . but I was truly curious to see if anyone thought that the CF SAR assests could be used more often and if there is a lack of knowledge amongst Emergency services especially in southern Ontario as to what they can offer. I suspect there is.

The "lack of knowledge" about CF SAR assets may be that some do not know what their mandate is.  The examples as you provided in the opening post are not scenarios that would fall under the CF's mandate as a primary responder nor (probably) even as a secondary response.  If your department has a mandate to respond to some of these events and are successful in accomplishing the task without assistance from a higher level in the SAR food chain (OPP in the case of Ontario), then there does not seem to be a problem.  If there is, perhaps it is in your SOPs, i.e., prior arrangements, lines of communication, training.  CF SAR assets are probably busy enough without local authorities requesting them before going through provincial channels.

 

[S.Stewart]

Thanks for all of the responses. Some of the answers that I was looking for are here.

I am quite familliar with some of the volunteer SAR teams and they do a great job.

Although I agree they are readily available throughout southern Ontario I have found that often enough by the time they mobilize we already have the job done.

We? I will tell you that most Volunteer SAR units operate during peak season espcially the summer, like volunteer firefighters, we carry pagers, cell phones etc. Most units have standards in which involves providing the site is local, being assembled, and out on site within an hour.

Being human beings one can only also work in certain conditions so long, as in if it's comparable to the sixth level of hell weather wise, we will call it off. Things like search and rescue dogs, and cadaver dogs can only work for so long, this also changes with terrain and everything else.

As someone who has worked on an SAR team, I will tell often if we aren't out there when you are, it is because we were not notified when you were. Since when do Civvy Paramedics conduct and participate in SAR operations. I didn't know you were trained in swift water, proper search proceedures, and or how to identify a burial site.

 

[Civvymedic]

S. Stewart. You may not be getting my point. We are probbably on the same page. When I say "we" I mean Police, Fire, EMS. The intial 911 responders on a scene. No we arent trained in some of the things that you mentioned and as such was asking about what resources were available. Quite a few times I have seen the initial responders as in Police, grab a boat from the local marina and in one case Rescue 3 persons in April waters clinging to a channel marker, hypothermic and slipping into the water. That April the volunteer coast guard wasnt in the water, Police Marine wasnt either except Toronto with a 50 min ETA. So what to do?

Time dependant emergencies like this happen maybe more often than you think and something needs to be done before waiting for a volunteer team. I was enquiring as to what trained people were available to assist. I assumed that CF SAR would have a better respone time in some cases so I asked.

As far as when do civillian medics do certain things. Rarely but sometimes "we" Paramedics, LEO, Fire Fighters" do go into other areas of responsibility's to save a life. Paramedics have gone into fires, searched for people in the forest, Firefighters have tackled suspects to assist Police, Police have provided some great medical care that wasnt expected of them. It's all part of getting there first and having to deal with things on an urgent basis.

I respect the volunteer SAR teams, but Im sorry it does take some time for you to get there and things sometimes need to get done.

 

[foresterab]

Interesting discussion as we've had this talk last week at work over first response.

Working with the civilian first responders generally when a SARTEC level emergancy occurs RCMP locally handle the issue and alerts are issued to the armed forces.  Support for these searches is becoming more common in terms of mapping, aircraft, and occasionally additional bodies but due to the low of training most fire crews and staff have for medical situations staff are generally not usefull unless they take out of work additional training. 

What I do find worrying at times is we are only asked for support 2 or 3 days into a search....time in which we could have provided 30 or 40 people and multiple aircraft to assist (not control, assist the search). 

All that being said...hats off to the SARTEC's.