Arizona Congresswoman shot

[Fishbone Jones]

From The New York Times:

Arizona Suspect’s Online Trail Offers Hints of Alienation

A suspected gunman, in a few public hints, offered a sense of his alienation from society, confusion, anger as well as foreboding that his life could soon come to an end.

http://nyti.ms/efvlnd

and from further in the article..."Army officials said Saturday that he had tried to enlist but had been rejected for military service. Privacy rules prevented them from disclosing the reason."

At least he can't use the profession of arms as an excuse.

It will be interesting how the current administration and organisation deals with this, given that a couple (few) of their own are now involved. The left normally tries to demonise the object (gun) and alleviate the assailant. However, that almost is always the case with low profile, nobody knows them victims. That's not the case here.

I expect a concerted effort against Sarah Palin (hunter and gun owner), the Second Amendment and the Republican\ Tea Party simply because some of the people harmed were high profile Democrats.

 

[armyvern]

A recent (before all this happened) post from his myspace page.

"Dear friends ... please don't be mad at me. The literacy rate is below 5%. I haven't talked to one person who is literate".

He has obviously been "troubled" for some time, just because he planned it doesn't mean he is sane.

I'd agree with your last statement, but whether or not he is criminally insane is another matter --- I'm quite sure the courts will decide.

 

[brihard]

If I were a prosecutor in a DP state ... and I saw his youtube page with the past-tense usage ... I'd be offering it up as proof of premeditation & to counteract any kooookooooooo angle from the defence.

You can be capable of planning actions, and still be nuttier than squirrel shit.

 

[armyvern]

You can be capable of planning actions, and still be nuttier than squirrel shit.

You can still be a nut, and be found responsible for your actions too --- especially if found to be fully capable of pre-meditating those actions. 

 

[brihard]

You can still be a nut, and be found responsible for your actions too --- especially if found to be fully capable of pre-meditating those actions. 

Indeed you can- but I guess to clarify what I said earlier, being capable of premeditation does not automatically negate the possibility of a successful defence on grounds of insanity. Being in control of one's actions likewise does not mean that the defence is invalid, if one is incapable of recognizing the wrongness of one's actions.

Obviously we've little to go on with regards to this particular suspect- but I very much expect that the possibility of an insanity defence will be raised, and that it may have some merit.

 

[desert_rat]

What with FBI Director R. Meuller III personally overseeing the investigation one would imagine things will get a) ugly b) interesting, depending on your view : 8) & maybe a few people getting visits from the dudes with the initlals on the back of the windbreakers...

 

[JMesh]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40980334/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/

'I can't trust the current government’
Referring to District 8, the congressional district served by Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, Loughner wrote, "The majority of people who reside in District 8 are illiterate — hilarious. I don't control your English grammar structure."

And he adds, "I can't trust the current government because of fabrications. The government is implying mind control and brainwash on the people by controlling grammar."

The MySpace page, which was removed within minutes of the gunman being identified by U.S. officials, included a mysterious "Goodbye friends" message published hours before the shooting. It also exhorted his friends to "Please don't be mad at me."

Emphasis mine.

That line would seem to indicate to me he knew the wrongness of his actions. That, coupled with the premeditation, would certainly put a damper on an insanity defence.

 

[Oh No a Canadian]

That line would seem to indicate to me he knew the wrongness of his actions. That, coupled with the premeditation, would certainly put a damper on an insanity defence.

I agree, he probably thought it was one of those things that just had to be done.

 

[desert_rat]

Rep.Giffords' husband...

http://www.jsc.nasa.gov/Bios/htmlbios/kellyme.html

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Rep.Giffords' husband...

http://www.jsc.nasa.gov/Bios/htmlbios/kellyme.html

Makes her even more high profile, and now her husband will be available and able to speak for her.

We're not even MSM and we've become a spokesman for her.

What about the rest of the victims? Who speaks for them?

 

[desert_rat]

From The New York Times:

Amid Shock, Recalling Judge’s Life of Service

John M. Roll, the chief federal judge in Arizona who was killed in the attack near Tucson, was described as a tireless advocate for his district and no stranger to the risks of public service.

http://nyti.ms/grDczF

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I'm sorry, It's unfortunate that these people were harmed and killed.

What is unfortunate, is that the real people, the normal citizens, are being forgotten because some, as far as the MSM is concerned, newsworthy politicians got killed\ hurt.

What about the real, everyday people that got caught in this mess?

 

[desert_rat]

Indeed!

"Cristina Taylor Greene: Arizona Shooting Claims Life of 9-Year-Old Born on 9/11"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/09/christina-taylor-greene-a_n_806314.html

 

[muskrat89]

Lots of updates at www.azcentral.com

Names of those killed:  http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/01/08/death-toll-shooting-arizona/

 

[desert_rat]

A cross section of American citizenry (elected officials, a child, seniors) mowed down...hopefully the fact that the "state apparatus" that the "alleged shooter" so vilified in his Youtube "productions" has not  taken him out back and summarily put one just behind & below his earlobe is not lost on him.

 

[kstart]

More live updates:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/08/gabrielle-giffords-shot-c_n_806211.html

At a press conference on Sunday afternoon, Pima County, Ariz., Sheriff Clarence Dupnik offered more details on how suspected Arizona shooter Jared Loughner was disarmed.

Dupnik said that when Loughner ran out of bullets in his first magazine clip, a woman who had already been shot "went up and grabbed" the new magazine "and tore it away from him." Dupnik said the name of the woman was known but he did not share it during the press conference.

After the confrontation with the woman, Loughner was able to load another magazine into his weapon, but "the spring in the magazine failed," Dupnik said, and two men were able to get his weapon away from him and subdue him until law enforcement arrived.

Dupnik said the work of these three people potentially averted a "huge greater catastrophe."

 

[observor 69]

My takeaway from this event:

"Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik described the gunman as mentally unstable and possibly acting with an accomplice. He said Giffords was among 13 people wounded in the melee that killed six people, including a 9-year-old girl, an aide for the Democratic lawmaker and U.S. District Judge John Roll, who had just stopped by to see his friend Giffords after celebrating Mass. Dupnik said the rampage ended only after two people tackled the gunman.

The sheriff blamed the vitriolic political rhetoric that has consumed the country, much of it centered in Arizona.

"When you look at unbalanced people, how they respond to the vitriol that comes out of certain mouths about tearing down the government. The anger, the hatred, the bigotry that goes on in this country is getting to be outrageous," he said. "And unfortunately, Arizona, I think, has become the capital. We have become the mecca for prejudice and bigotry."

Giffords expressed similar concern, even before the shooting. In an interview after her office was vandalized, she referred to the animosity against her by conservatives, including Sarah Palin's decision to list Giffords' seat as one of the top "targets" in the midterm elections.

"For example, we're on Sarah Palin's targeted list, but the thing is, that the way that she has it depicted has the crosshairs of a gun sight over our district. When people do that, they have to realize that there are consequences to that action," Giffords said in an interview with MSNBC.

In the hours after the shooting, Palin issued a statement in which she expressed her "sincere condolences" to the family of Giffords and the other victims.

During his campaign effort to unseat Giffords in November, Republican challenger Jesse Kelly held fundraisers where he urged supporters to help remove Giffords from office by joining him to shoot a fully loaded M-16 rifle. Kelly is a former Marine who served in Iraq and was pictured on his website in military gear holding his automatic weapon and promoting the event."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/08/gabrielle-giffords-shot-c_n_806211.html

 

[vonGarvin]

The sheriff blamed the vitriolic political rhetoric that has consumed the country, much of it centered in Arizona.

"When you look at unbalanced people, how they respond to the vitriol that comes out of certain mouths about tearing down the government. The anger, the hatred, the bigotry that goes on in this country is getting to be outrageous," he said. "And unfortunately, Arizona, I think, has become the capital. We have become the mecca for prejudice and bigotry."

Giffords expressed similar concern, even before the shooting. In an interview after her office was vandalized, she referred to the animosity against her by conservatives, including Sarah Palin's decision to list Giffords' seat as one of the top "targets" in the midterm elections.

"For example, we're on Sarah Palin's targeted list, but the thing is, that the way that she has it depicted has the crosshairs of a gun sight over our district. When people do that, they have to realize that there are consequences to that action," Giffords said in an interview with MSNBC.

This part above ought to go in the other thread where we post the stupidest things we heard.  Mentally unstable people have no rationale for their actions, and for crying out loud, there is a chain of stores called "target": should that be banned too?  Or how about this: there is this dude, mentally deranged, anti-government and all that, and he loaded up some magazines and went down and murdered some people, only as few as he did due to the extraordinary actions of a few brave people, one of whom was wounded by that same mentally deranged man.  People say "target" all the time, as in "we are targetting this, we are targetting that, etc".  It's a valid term, and a very extreme, and dangerous stretch to blame Palin for this.


But then again, nutjobs out there still blame Bush for 9/11.  :

 

[desert_rat]

It's a valid term, and a very extreme, and dangerous stretch to blame Palin for this.

I agree, and I am no fan of the Caribou Barbie but man they were backpedalling faster than an all-pro NFL defensive back getting all that stuff of their websites eh? Guess they figured it was now bad optics (pardon the pun).

 

[vonGarvin]

Guess they figured it was now bad optics (pardon the pun).

  Yes, I think they did.

In other news, the Congresswoman is apparently "OK with simple commands".  Hopefully it's a sign of recovery.  I recall when Brady was shot, and how they figured he was going to die, if not be a vegetable.  He's still alive, and very much a functioning citizen.