Army.ca Coin on E-bay

[Michael Dorosh]

It's illegal if Mike Bobbitt had the expectation that he would be the only vendor of the coins - though the guy who made them could be a jerk and say that there is nothing in writing stipulating that, if it is the case. One would "reasonably expect' Mike to have the right to exclusivity, but it's all in how the original deal was done. As for unethical, no arguments there, but ethics and business unfortunately don't always mix.

I don't see much of a market for the coins outside of army.ca in any event - those who would most likely want one are also most likely already members and therefore loyal to Mike.

 

[Springroll]

This is just ridiculous!

I hope this is dealt with swiftly.....

 

[George Wallace]

Which is why I've got two of them - but I'm not selling. I'm like Hermann Goering, I gotta have a duplicate of everything.  When he got married,

Well Michael, when I got this far I was wondering about his duplicate wife, but alas, I was disappointed as I read further.

I do think that it is very unethical of the vendor of these coins to have run off others that he could sell on other means for a profit.  If he is doing it with all the organizations that he deals with, he may be in for a nasty surprise, as many organizations will sue for patent infringement if they hold title to the design of the coin.  Mike would have to have the rights to the design if that were the case with the Army.ca coin.  If not, I suspect the Manufacture could reasonably reproduce as many as he wanted, at Mike's expense (loss of profit).

I don't think the Army.ca coins have hit the four digit numbers yet, but it would not be unreasonable to expect them to as the site grows and more members become subscribers.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

Well Michael, when I got this far I was wondering about his duplicate wife, but alas, I was disappointed as I read further.

I find that most stories regarding Hermann Goering have an unhappy ending; I regret I was powerless to buck the trend in this case.

I do think that it is very unethical of the vendor of these coins to have run off others that he could sell on other means for a profit.  If he is doing it with all the organizations that he deals with, he may be in for a nasty surprise, as many organizations will sue for patent infringement if they hold title to the design of the coin.  Mike would have to have the rights to the design if that were the case with the Army.ca coin.  If not, I suspect the Manufacture could reasonably reproduce as many as he wanted, at Mike's expense (loss of profit).

I don't think the Army.ca coins have hit the four digit numbers yet, but it would not be unreasonable to expect them to as the site grows and more members become subscribers.

Well stated on all counts. It sucks, but there it is.

 

[Mike Bobbitt]

You know, I can't recall if there was a #0000 minted in the original round. If it was, it would be sitting in the "do not issue" pile, which I can check tonight. All the coins have 4 digits though.

I suspect there is little I can do to "force" the guy to stop selling them. The two things we have going for us are that I can express my displeasure in very strong words, and (as pointed out) he's not going to sell a lot of these on eBay or elsewhere. It's up for $12.50 US (plus applicable duties and taxes as it traverses Customs). For an extra $15 or so people can get the coin plus shirt, sticker and subscriber status, so I'm not worried he's going to undercut us on a regular basis.

 

[George Wallace]

On a lighter note:  We have all now been warned that the Coin # 0000 was sold on eBay, so it would be in inadmissible in a "Coining" and should instead result in having the owner "buy" no matter what the outcome of the "Coining" should be.  ;D

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

On a lighter note:  We have all now been warned that the Coin # 0000 was sold on eBay, so it would be in inadmissible in a "Coining" and should instead result in having the owner "buy" no matter what the outcome of the "Coining" should be.   ;D

Yup, he can be the first to "buy" his very own throatpunch.....

 

[Cloud Cover]

You know, I can't recall if there was a #0000 minted in the original round. If it was, it would be sitting in the "do not issue" pile, which I can check tonight. All the coins have 4 digits though.

I suspect there is little I can do to "force" the guy to stop selling them. The two things we have going for us are that I can express my displeasure in very strong words, and (as pointed out) he's not going to sell a lot of these on eBay or elsewhere. It's up for $12.50 US (plus applicable duties and taxes as it traverses Customs). For an extra $15 or so people can get the coin plus shirt, sticker and subscriber status, so I'm not worried he's going to undercut us on a regular basis.

Ahem ... who originally designed the coin?

 

[Pearson]

And here I though Mr. Bobbit was trying to raise a little beer money for the next DS party.

 

[Scott]

I was waiting for Whiskey to weigh in...

 

[c.jacob]

Is that actually Legal.  If Mike gives a design to a mintor to be made and the mintor decides to make a few of his own and sell them  ???

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

If it is illegal then Whiskey will be all over it just like an amateur on Monday night at Roxanne's..... ^-^  hehehe

 

[Michael Dorosh]

Ahem ... who originally designed the coin?

Does the artist automatically retain copyright? If I design a coin for the Royal Canadian Mint, for example, don't they retain the right - during negotiations - to assume copyright of that artwork in exchange for paying me "x" amount of dollars?

What is the "default setting" for want of a better term?

 

[Armymedic]

Mike,
pm sent ref coin.

 

[George Wallace]

Does the artist automatically retain copyright? If I design a coin for the Royal Canadian Mint, for example, don't they retain the right - during negotiations - to assume copyright of that artwork in exchange for paying me "x" amount of dollars?

No.  The artist does not automatically retain the copyright.  If the artist is 'commissioned' to produce something, the person or persons who commissioned the artist would usually hold the copyright. 

You will find that in business, where all the R&D done on a product is the property of the Company, not the people who have done the research or development of the product. 

Can the artist negotiate to keep the copyright?  I would guess that it is a possibility, but that the person or persons paying the 'commission' would surely be foolish to be caught in that situation in the majority of cases.  It could lead to a large financial loss for them.

Before anyone thinks of musicians like the Beatles (that band that Paul McCarthy was in before Wings), remember that they were not commissioned to write their music.  They wrote and  paid for their own recordings and paid commissions to the Record companies, and collected whatever Royalties they could off their music.  Different from the artist who is commissioned to paint a painting or create a sculpture for a person or organization.  There the artist is paid a fee and given recognition for their work.

 

[1feral1]

As much as I am not for the scalping of our coins, it is good to see that we are a collectable item out there. Ya, some collector will buy it, but what can ya do. Thats capitalism for ya.

Cheers,

Wes

 

[Michael Dorosh]

The Calgary Highlanders minted a special set of regimental awards, in four grades, and have been presenting them for about 15 years now. One of the guys was at a gun show and saw one of the awards being hawked by a medal collector.  The awards are not engraved, but the recipient of this one had seen fit to engrave his name on the back - he had been an MWO many years ago and retired something like 10 years ago, and passed on something like 5 years ago or something. Buddy who spotted it thought it was a bit strange to see it up for sale, but as we've discussed in the medal collecting threads here, if someone values it enough to spend money on it, more power to them - better someone who values it end up with it.

Which unfortunately does not seem to be the case with this coin. I'll be interested to see if Mike has 0000 in hand, or if perhaps it was the original sample (proof copy?) that the manufacturer did. My guess would be that the manufacturer is either selling it, or gave it to some collector who is now flogging it, and this is hopefully a one-time thing. It would make sense for Mike to get numbers 0001 through 2500 or whatever, leaving 0000 as the proof but I suppose we're all just talking out our behinds for now.

Love a good conspiracy story, though.

 

[Cloud Cover]

If it is illegal then Whiskey will be all over it just like an amateur on Monday night at Roxanne's..... ^-^  hehehe

For the record, there was no touching, so .. ... oh, never mind.

 

[Mike Bobbitt]

I'll be interested to see if Mike has 0000 in hand, or if perhaps it was the original sample (proof copy?) that the manufacturer did. My guess would be that the manufacturer is either selling it, or gave it to some collector who is now flogging it, and this is hopefully a one-time thing. It would make sense for Mike to get numbers 0001 through 2500 or whatever, leaving 0000 as the proof but I suppose we're all just talking out our behinds for now.

I looked and I don't have a 0000. In fact, it all came flooding back to me... I actually requested the numbering start at 0000 so I'd have a "demo" coin so to speak, but when the order came, 0000 was absent. (They still sent the correct number of coins, just not numbered correctly.)

Anyway, much ado about nothing I think, though I still intend to contact the mint when the auction is up.

 

[McG]

Mike,
Don't you own the "Army.ca" name?