Army commander vows to issue special order to weed out extremists in the ranks

[MJP]

I am willing to bet that this isn't a "white" phenomenon, but exists in any society where a majority group interacts with a minority group.  Francis Fukuyama's masterpiece, The Origins of Political Order, explores the two human psycho-social phenomenon that human societies and political order are built upon: kinship selection and reciprocal altruism.

Great post and I think you are on the mark. I have no doubt that what happens/is perceived in NA/Europe as a white problem is a problem in non- white countries for the same reasons (and more).

 

[QV]

Especially when you mean where in Canada they're from, its kind of a big country.

When I ask a colleague where they’re from, I’m expecting an answer like; Toronto or New Brunswick. 

 

[ballz]

I just ask "What is your family heritage" as a good way of tackling that one - "Irish," "Hong Kong," or "Pakistan by way of Africa" are some of the responses I've gotten.

I was going to mention that, but he actually gets irritated when you re-phrase it that way too and I can't figure out if maybe that's just him or if it's because the line of questioning in general is poorly received by others and they just don't say so openly.

I am willing to bet that this isn't a "white" phenomenon, but exists in any society where a majority group interacts with a minority group.  Francis Fukuyama's masterpiece, The Origins of Political Order, explores the two human psycho-social phenomenon that human societies and political order are built upon: kinship selection and reciprocal altruism.

I don't know if it's the same thing, sounds like it's coming from the same thing anyway, but there is also novelty aversion or in it's extreme form, neophobia, which is a fear/anxiety of new things / things you are not familiar with. Like a fear of heights, everyone has got some level of novelty aversion engrained in the lizard part of their brain, as it's the "unknown" that always presents a new danger so it was a useful characteristic for surviving. It's why we take a liking to the same coffee mug, and it happens relatively quickly (i.e. once you've used the same cup once or twice, you'll be more likely to pick that one over the others to my understanding), and partly why children are more prone to being picky eaters (food neophobia).

Note: I know very little of what I just wrote, other than Wikipedia and a podcast that talked about it, but I find it interesting.

 

[daftandbarmy]

I was going to mention that, but he actually gets irritated when you re-phrase it that way too and I can't figure out if maybe that's just him or if it's because the line of questioning in general is poorly received by others and they just don't say so openly.

I don't know if it's the same thing, sounds like it's coming from the same thing anyway, but there is also novelty aversion or in it's extreme form, neophobia, which is a fear/anxiety of new things / things you are not familiar with. Like a fear of heights, everyone has got some level of novelty aversion engrained in the lizard part of their brain, as it's the "unknown" that always presents a new danger so it was a useful characteristic for surviving. It's why we take a liking to the same coffee mug, and it happens relatively quickly (i.e. once you've used the same cup once or twice, you'll be more likely to pick that one over the others to my understanding), and partly why children are more prone to being picky eaters (food neophobia).

Note: I know very little of what I just wrote, other than Wikipedia and a podcast that talked about it, but I find it interesting.

In Canada we can forget that in some countries, your whole life can change depending on how you answer the question 'where are you from?', or, in fact, what type of accent you have.

G.B. Shaw wrote a pretty popular play about that subject: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/7714.Pygmalion

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Yes but that is the standard applied during the Admin Review process done by DMCA. It is a much more in-depth review and application as listed in the admin manual. A unit putting someone on a remedial measure has only to consider the balance of probabilities.

DAOD 5019-4 Remedial Measures

Requirement for a Remedial Measure
4.1 A remedial measure may be initiated if there is reliable evidence that establishes on a balance of probabilities that a CAF member has demonstrated:

a conduct deficiency based on an applicable standard of conduct; or
a performance deficiency whereby, over a reasonable period of time, the CAF member has not met the applicable standard of performance.

DAD 5019-2 Admin Review

Standard of Proof and Evidence
5.6 The standard of proof in an AR is a balance of probabilities as set out in the following table:  Table attached as picture due to copy paste issues 

100% agree.  I'm thinking that anyone who is found colouring outside the lines of these new "hateful conduct" will be worrying about more severe consequences than a IC or RW;  I'm likely looking at it from the 'worst case scenario' view.

Better to look at it and consider both ends of the spectrum like you are. 

 

[lenaitch]

When I ask a colleague where they’re from, I’m expecting an answer like; Toronto or New Brunswick.

I suppose we have to recognize that, sometimes, those on the receiving end interpret the question differently based on their life experience.  A few years ago, I asked that question to a colleague I had just met who's heritage was obviously Caribbean, but my perhaps naïve 'angle of curiosity' was similar to yours. Unfortunately, she apparently had a lifetime of that question with less-than-innocent undertones.  Her face kind of darkened and replied 'what do you mean'.  I quickly realized what had happened and said 'well, I'm from Toronto'.  Her demeanor relaxed and replied what area of Ontario she was from.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Hey Stella, where are you from?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crAv5ttax2I

 

[Jarnhamar]

Canadian Forces in the USA Twitter account offering up a different take on #ProudBoys

https://mobile.twitter.com/CAFinUS/status/1312734325104873473?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

That's bound to ruffle some feathers.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Canadian Forces in the USA Twitter account offering up a different take on #ProudBoys

https://mobile.twitter.com/CAFinUS/status/1312734325104873473?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

That's bound to ruffle some feathers.

Why would it ruffle feathers?

 

[Jarnhamar]

I'd guess some people don't like the sight of two guys in uniform kissing. Some will argue it violates DAOD 5901. Some probably just don't think PDA while in uniform is acceptable.
Then again maybe no one will care one bit.

I thought the #ProudBoys hashtag was hilarious.

 

[dapaterson]

Well, only one is in uniform, and if you scan that hastag, you'll see see @CAFInUS is just joining a large group that's flooding social media.

 

[Jarnhamar]

What's the larger group flooding social media about? Some kind of hostile take over of the hashtag or something else?

 

[Infanteer]

Some probably just don't think PDA while in uniform is acceptable.

:rofl:

http://100photos.time.com/photos/kiss-v-j-day-times-square-alfred-eisenstaedt

 

[ballz]

The gay community is basically trolling the Proud Boys group, it's a pretty funny troll actually.

That said I'm not a huge fan of people making out in public and yes, that extends to all varieties of people, although sometimes the occasion calls for it (like coming home after winning WW2!)... if this was done just to troll I'm on board.

 

[dapaterson]

What's the larger group flooding social media about? Some kind of hostile take over of the hashtag or something else?

Click through the hashtag and you'll see a wide array of gay men in a wide array of circumstances.

 

[Jarnhamar]

:rofl:

http://100photos.time.com/photos/kiss-v-j-day-times-square-alfred-eisenstaedt

I think that falls under sexual assault these days.

The gay community is basically trolling the Proud Boys group, it's a pretty funny troll actually.

That said I'm not a huge fan of people making out in public and yes, that extends to all varieties of people, although sometimes the occasion calls for it (like coming home after winning WW2!)... if this was done just to troll I'm on board.

Interesting troll for sure. I know even less of the US proud boys than the Canadian group. From what I understand neither mentions gay men not being welcomed in their group.

I'll wear a rain jacket in the winter with a toque and no gloves, I've lost my moral authority to be upset over disobeying rules  ;D

 

[dimsum]

I'd guess some people don't like the sight of two guys in uniform kissing. Some will argue it violates DAOD 5901. Some probably just don't think PDA while in uniform is acceptable.
Then again maybe no one will care one bit.

I thought the #ProudBoys hashtag was hilarious.

That picture was taken when HMCS Winnipeg returned from deployment in 2016.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/historic-kiss-same-sex-canadian-navy-1.3461219

 

[Jarnhamar]

Thanks for the explication. I liked the picture more when it looked spontaneous and didn't have Combat camera up in their face. Unless they photograph every first kiss ashore.


Speaking of the Proud Boys and the army commanders new special order, what happens if someone joins the Proud Boys (or stormguard or whoever) and the CoC is made aware now?

Are they looking at a 5f release?

 

[blacktriangle]

Would it be a release under item 5, or more likely under items(s) 1 or 2?

I wonder if the CAF will release people for wearing aloha shirts?  ;D

 

[MJP]

Would it be a release under item 5, or more likely under items(s) 1 or 2?

I wonder if the CAF will release people for wearing aloha shirts?  ;D

Well items 1&2 are generally the result of court martial/service tribunal while item 5 is purely administrative and handled by DMCA 2. If someone fell afoul of the CCA order I would expect that the mostly like COA is Admin Review by DMCA 2 for likely 5F release.