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Army Communication & Information Systems Specialists (Sig Op, Lineman and LCIS Amalgamation)

We has a Mes managers briefing last week.  Still a lot of unanswered questions.  Although they seem to have figured out how to top off the electronics training missed by not doing a full POET.
They are going to purchase CDs ( at $1500 a lisence  ) that members can do on their spare time at work. 
Pure Genius !

One small light for the LCIS techs who were tricked into choosing IST.  If your PLAR is not complete, don't finish it before Dec 31st, and you will be automatically moved to CST. 
Unless of course, if you prefer to answer the phone with " help desk" .
 
Nice, Thanks for that info Rob. Funny how alot of the ISTs want to jump ship already.
 
Lare said:
Not sure where this 10 weeks business is coming from,

Easy answer... the info hasn't been updated to reflect the changes in training days.  It's was listed as 10 weeks for years,  was never updated for when SQ was 7 weeks(when I did it) and it still hasn't been changed now that the course is BMQ-Land and only a month long.

It's been updated now though, well kind of.. still using the old course name.
http://www.forces.ca/en/job/signaloperator-16#education-2

Soldier Qualification

On successful completion of BMQ, Signal Operators go to a Military Training Centre for the Soldier Qualification (SQ) course, which lasts 20 training days and covers the following topics:
• Army physical fitness;
• dismounted offensive and defensive operations;
• reconnaissance patrolling;
• advanced weapons-handling (working with grenades, machine-guns and anti tank weapons); and
• individual field-craft.
 
The ACISS Fact Sheet ( http://www.forces.ca/en/job/armycommunicationandinformationsystemsspecialist-171#education-2 ) still states that SQ is 10 weeks long.

 
Tango18A said:
Nice, Thanks for that info Rob. Funny how alot of the ISTs want to jump ship already.

Jump ship to CST or to ACISS core? From everything I've heard, I have no idea why anyone would want to be ACISS core, MES is designed to give Linemen and helpdesk people specpay, thats it.
 
PuckChaser said:
Jump ship to CST or to ACISS core? From everything I've heard, I have no idea why anyone would want to be ACISS core, MES is designed to give Linemen and helpdesk people specpay, thats it.

Now we've definitely flipped this on it's head.  This thread has run the gamut; from people (like me) saying this was a save the Rad Op effort to you now saying it is only designed to give Linemen and IS guys spec pay.  To tell you the truth, with Chief Comm Op now being a CISTM occupation I'm not exactly sure what the core occupation is for.  I think the only solution to this mess is to amalgamate ACISS core with IST and then double hat them (we'll call it Phase I).  Once this is complete we should split off the sub-occupations (Phase II) into separate stand alone, silo structured occupations.  We can call the whole effort the Wider Telecommunications (re-) Formulation or WTF.
 
Very nice Swingline. I fully agree with you on the fact this is turning into a gong show. There is no info on anything trade related that is any firmer than jello. Will the CISTMs be able to go back and forth between core ACISS job and sub Traded CISTM jobs? I think they should as all the implementation team has been spouting is "you must be qualified the core job to be in a sub-occupation". To me this says that CISTM are twice as employable than the core ACISS. Picking and choosing our postings very well in relation to what is available.
 
Tango18A said:
Nice, Thanks for that info Rob. Funny how alot of the ISTs want to jump ship already.

I think the only people trying to claw they're way out of IST are the people whom thought they could jump on the 'gravy' boat that would be getting Spec pay (I don't think anyone will be myself) and now that they realize it hasn't materialized, they want they're 'old' job back. Whatever the reason, I don't care, if they don't want to be an IST, I don't want  them in my new trade... The only good IST's will be the ones whom want to do that type of job, those who want to be techno-geeks and challenged in that fashion.

It's unfortunate we don't have any further info from higher but maybe this is it, no real game-changing strategy, just continue on. The only other difference is that all our newly minted 'IST' guys are being placed into the same troop at the Sqn. That surprisingly seems like common sense!

Oh, and I suppose we'll see the first big difference when the brand new ACISS dudes from the school show up. We'll see how useful or not they are.
 
CFJSR has 16 showing up next week and one of the Sgts in my Tp has been tasked to manage them while they go through thier "OJT" (contact training , whatever) so in essence they belong to my Tp.  I will let you know how it goes.
 
Sig Joeschmo said:
I think the only people trying to claw they're way out of IST are the people whom thought they could jump on the 'gravy' boat that would be getting Spec pay

I cant recall any of the former Sig OPs who were assigned IST that are bugging to switch to core.

I do however, know more than just a few LCIS techs who either were assigned IST or who wanted IST ( and have to submit a plar) who have now changed their minds for one reason or another.  I suspect it has something to do with the small chance IST guys will actually be working on networks, ( and I  mean beyond the current local admin guys who come over and re-baseline your computer )  and the greater chance they will be working at CFNOC or their local help desk.

I just feel that the sub occupation with the most smoke and mirrors in their trade specs is the IST sub.  That great unknown is what has a lot of the former LCIS techs who were exploring the IST route re-evaluating their decision.



 
PiperDown said:
I suspect it has something to do with the small chance IST guys will actually be working on networks, ( and I  mean beyond the current local admin guys who come over and re-baseline your computer )  and the greater chance they will be working at CFNOC or their local help desk.

So which trade or sub-occupation of ACCISS will be working on the networks (design, operation and maintenance ) ?
 
GreenIsGood said:
So which trade or sub-occupation of ACCISS will be working on the networks (design, operation and maintenance ) ?

IST...but I don't know where you got "design" from.  They won't be doing any designing, either before the trade amalgamation or after.  Operation and maintenance, sure.
 
Someone needs to polish the Help Desk.  >:D That will probably be it for the maint portion.
 
Occam said:
IST...but I don't know where you got "design" from.  They won't be doing any designing, either before the trade amalgamation or after.  Operation and maintenance, sure.

And hopefully Shared Services doesn't take too big a bite out of their (IST) lunch either.
 
Swingline1984 said:
And hopefully Shared Services doesn't take too big a bite out of their (IST) lunch either.

I think it's a foregone conclusion that they (SSC) will.  I really don't know how military personnel will be loaned out to be employed in a separate gov't department to work on DWAN and part of SABNS.  I think those positions will go the way of the dodo - and that's simply my opinion, based on watching things in the IT world of DND in Ottawa for the last few years.
 
Occam said:
IST...but I don't know where you got "design" from.
I got it from the ACCISS promo video ( http://www.forces.ca/en/job/armycommunicationandinformationsystemsspecialist-171 ) which states "...we design, install and maintain satellite, wireless and cable networks...".
 
GreenIsGood said:
I got it from the ACCISS promo video ( http://www.forces.ca/en/job/armycommunicationandinformationsystemsspecialist-171 ) which states "...we design, install and maintain satellite, wireless and cable networks...".

That was an overarching statement which encompassed the entire ACISS occupation.  Red/black infrastructure and network design will more than likely remain the realm of IM Group and more specifically DGIMT (parts of which are splitting off with Shared Services) with input from the technical Warrant Officers and above (and to some extent the Sgts) i.e. CISTM sub-occ.
 
GreenIsGood said:
I got it from the ACCISS promo video ( http://www.forces.ca/en/job/armycommunicationandinformationsystemsspecialist-171 ) which states "...we design, install and maintain satellite, wireless and cable networks...".

I think someone may have taken a little artistic licence with the design aspect.  Certainly not design in the same sense that civvie street would use the term.  Even in the field, the ACISS folks are going to "hook up" to an existing network using portable gear in a predetermined configuration - no designing involved.
 
Any one remember SIS tech ?

I thinnk that in a couple years we may be saying " anyone remember that IST trade ? "
 
Highly improbable that the IST trade will ever go away now. The amalgamation might disappear over time, but I think the IST trade is here to stay. It was only a matter of time before the army finally had a recognized IT trade. The Brits, Aussies and Americans, Germans, any modern military has the equivalent of a dedicated IT soldier.

For my entire reg force career I've been a TacNet system admin, and finally,  now I have a true 'home' and I'm not just considered another dumb-ass Sig Op. For years some people thought I and most of the people in my section were 'techs' - of the LCIS type. We have had techs in our section and do currently! But we're not LCIS.

With all the different DND networks out there and the continuing complexity of even radios and satellite comms, IST is already a trade, now it's just finally recognized. It's always been there, regardless of the guy working at a helpdesk, TacNet, DWAN, Titan as it used to be, CSNI and the list goes on...

I'm unsure why so many people keep saying IST's will just be 'helpdesk' workers. It almost seems to me that it's the people who say that that would also say computers are stupid, difficult and shouldn't be in the army. The same people who would say LCIS techs are fing 'nerds' because they're jealous of they're attained Spec Pay. I don't know what their trying to compensate for, but if you're trying to convince yourself that the IST trade will be relegated to just 'helpdesk' to make yourself feel better, enjoy. But the reality of the matter is there is a lot of work done in different positions that most of you never see that will be IST guys doing it. Sure there will be hundreds of helpdesk positions of course, we need them to keep it all going! But there will always be a tactical field deployable network (TacNet) along with all the other goodies like the newly re-minted tactically field deployable TLAN (Deployable DWAN) kits. These all take server administrators and network administrators.

Designing networks? I've done it. So have others in my section. It used to be a few years ago, that the chain would tell us (Corporals) to 'come up with an IP plan'... They'd also be asking US how to make Visio look like a mesh topology or star topology. We would have to be the ones to explain how TCP/IP networking works or doesn't work and why the plan that the Brigade IMO came up with is an epic failure.

These days, it's less of that and more of it controlled from higher as someone else mentioned. Which actually makes our job easier! We shouldn't be planning an entire excercises network(s). Corporals are not making a Major's salary or being saluted right? You will still sometimes get the opportunity to 'make things work' though. I have while I've been overseas here, building things, sending them back home and having it implemented. Also 'made things work' before tour as well. No we may not design networks very often, but if you're going to be a real IST you'd better damn well know how to 'make things  work' and use some of those skillsets you've left on the shelf for awhile! I had to pull out some interesting solutions for not only Tacnet but also DWAN while I was here...

Furthermore, cyber-warfare is the next generation's true wars. There are elements of the government and military whom are just now forming the basis and foundation of our defenses and guess where the military side of those NCM and NCO personnel will be drawn from? .... IST! One of the job descriptions for the new trade is "Network Penetration Tester". Hint hint? As time goes on, there will only be a need for more IST and technically inclined personnel. Not less.

My rant is done now.

:2c:
 
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