Army Uniform Change

[FJAG]

I liked our tropical worsted tan uniform but I really liked the Canadian tan uniform I saw once online.

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=canadian+army+tan+uniform+with+gold+rank+insignia+on+sleeves&id=8984958AD8AEF19EF8B240095A458241E63247A7&FORM=IQFRBA

Me too. It was by far my favourite uniform (well next to my AFV crew suits - I especially liked the winter one). The short sleeve shirt summer dress was particularly nice to wear.

No thanks, that thing was brutal. Any amount of moisture would cause the area to immediately darken causing some very interesting visuals, rubbing against absolutely anything would leave a mark, as soon as you sat down, any point where there was bunching of fabric would wrinkle...nope.

My understanding was that a consortium of RSMs had their hackles up because the uniform showed stains like oil from rifles etc. and therefore it led an NCM-led campaign to ashcan them. Funny thing is that there are dozens of armies around the world that wore/wear a similar shade of tan (not to mention our decades of TW uniforms before the busman's suit came into vogue) and were/are able to manage them quite well. The uniform wrinkled a bit more than the Greens because the cloth was a summer-weight one. It was manageable, however. Once we got rid of the tan uniform we all got to spend our summers wearing winter-weight cloth year-round. If you took care of your tans, they looked sharp.  :2c:

Also, the sewn-on badges/ranks/etc were on dark backings like the green DEU.  I never understood why they didn't have dark ranks/Canada letters on tan backings. 

Not to mention that we wore the green peaked cap, green ties and belts, and black shoes with it as well, all of which were a fashion faux pas. It was a dollars per uniform issue at the time. There simply wasn't enough funding at the time to also buy sets of the proper shades of accoutrements.

:cheers:

 

[dimsum]

Not to mention that we wore the green peaked cap, green ties and belts, and black shoes with it as well, all of which were a fashion faux pas. It was a dollars per uniform issue at the time. There simply wasn't enough funding at the time to also buy sets of the proper shades of accoutrements.

Then there are these folks:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King%27s_Royal_Hussars#/media/File:The_Princess_Royal_takes_the_salute_from_soldiers_of_the_King%27s_Royal_Hussars.jpg

 

[daftandbarmy]

Then there are these folks:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King%27s_Royal_Hussars#/media/File:The_Princess_Royal_takes_the_salute_from_soldiers_of_the_King%27s_Royal_Hussars.jpg

That's the 'Cherry Pickers'.

I know a guy from that regiment whose family looked down upon the British Royal Family (the neighbours) because they were the relatively poor, immigrant newcomers.

 

[FJAG]

That's the 'Cherry Pickers'.

I know a guy from that regiment whose family looked down upon the British Royal Family (the neighbours) because they were the relatively poor, immigrant newcomers.

Yet being the successors to the 11th Hussars (Lord Cardigan and Charge of the Light Brigade and all that) the crimson trousers were given to them from that immigrant Queen's immigrant Consort, Prince Albert and became "Prince Albert's Own" regiment.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/11th_Hussars#The_19th_century

That's quite a bit of tugging the forelock there.

:cheers:

 

[Blackadder1916]

My understanding was that a consortium of RSMs had their hackles up because the uniform showed stains like oil from rifles etc. and therefore it led an NCM-led campaign to ashcan them. Funny thing is that there are dozens of armies around the world that wore/wear a similar shade of tan (not to mention our decades of TW uniforms before the busman's suit came into vogue) and were/are able to manage them quite well. The uniform wrinkled a bit more than the Greens because the cloth was a summer-weight one. It was manageable, however. Once we got rid of the tan uniform we all got to spend our summers wearing winter-weight cloth year-round. If you took care of your tans, they looked sharp.  :2c:

While the RSM net may have considerable input to the decision, the personal opinion of the CLS (Comd LFC) at the time probably was a critical factor.  In response to a specific question/comment about the appearance of the tan uniform from a MP at a SCONDVA hearing he gave the following evidence.

https://www.ourcommons.ca/DocumentViewer/en/36-1/NDVA/meeting-18/evidence

LGen W.C. Leach: I have every intention to comment on the uniform.

You might notice that my body is shaped the way it is. It's not long and thin; it's a little bit shorter and a little bit broader, and I've been in some of those situations myself.

However, if I want to go back a couple of years and look at what our soldiers said about uniforms, our soldiers said quit screwing us around, we don't need a lot of different uniforms, we just need the basic uniforms and let's make some decisions and get on with life. The soldiers said there are two uniforms that are important if you're a soldier, and one is combat clothing; get it for us, get the right amount, get the right type, because when we're on the battlefield we want to feel comfortable operationally, comfortable personally, and then morale will be okay. We're addressing that. 

The second issue from the soldiers is why is it that we have this green uniform, which is technically called rifle green and which the soldiers like, and the tan uniform, which you described quite well—I would probably be a little ruder and cruder—what people look like in it. So we made a decision. I've made a decision. I've been led to believe by the Chief of the Defence Staff that he agrees with my decision and would be making it happen. The army is going to give the soldiers what they want. There are going to be two uniforms in the army in the future, and they're going to be combat and this uniform, the green. We are going to stop swapping back and forth. We are going to stop wearing a uniform in the summer that doesn't breathe and makes you like a bag of you know what and is just all-round uncomfortable.

I don't know, I may have pre-empted the opportunities of the minister to say yes or no. But the fact is the soldiers said all these other things are important, but you are absolutely right, dress is critical; why don't you make some decisions and get on with life. We've made them. It's happening. I would expect that as early as this summer you probably aren't going to see people walking around in tan uniforms the way they have in the past. When you tell the soldiers in Bosnia, and they say what are you doing about my dress, and we tell them, even though it's not public yet, they say thank you.

Mr. John Richardson: Thank you.

I remember seeing LGen Leach saying much the same thing but it was probably not the same hearing because what I specifically recall him saying is that the tan uniform made him look like "a ten pound bag of sh*t tied in the middle".

 

[tomahawk6]

Perhaps your tan uniform wasn't comfortable. Ours was and definitely better than the Army Green uniform when worn in summer. The khaki tan uniform was issued and was starched. The tropical worsted uniform was a purchased item for optional wear. This was a time when even our khaki uniforms were starched. Now the troops have it better with no more starched uni's.

 

[FJAG]

While the RSM net may have considerable input to the decision, the personal opinion of the CLS (Comd LFC) at the time probably was a critical factor.  In response to a specific question/comment about the appearance of the tan uniform from a MP at a SCONDVA hearing he gave the following evidence.

https://www.ourcommons.ca/DocumentViewer/en/36-1/NDVA/meeting-18/evidence
I remember seeing LGen Leach saying much the same thing but it was probably not the same hearing because what I specifically recall him saying is that the tan uniform made him look like "a ten pound bag of **** tied in the middle".

I think the exact quote is "like ten pounds of shit in a five pound bag with a string tied around the middle."

Being the cynic that I am, I think his comments about feedback from the soldiers came from a limited source (although we had a round of funny furry hats, coats of many colours garrison dress with Corcoran boots, baggy work dress uniforms and a few other things here and there that did piss people off in general) I know that in my unit the tans were generally received favourably.

Hate to think that we lost a good uniform because one lieutenant general had a pear shaped body.  :facepalm:

:cheers:

 

[OldSolduer]

I’d agree with FJAG on this but there were some issues. The bottom hem of the trousers were often black with boot polish. On a hot, humid day on parade the perspiration soaked through the tunic and trousers. The sight wasn’t pretty.

 

[daftandbarmy]

I think the new uniform looks sharp, and like a 'real' Army uniform.

Well done Yanks!  :nod:

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Almost Canadian special forces like. 

 

[quadrapiper]

I’d agree with FJAG on this but there were some issues. The bottom hem of the trousers were often black with boot polish. On a hot, humid day on parade the perspiration soaked through the tunic and trousers. The sight wasn’t pretty.

Sidebar... as high collar white jacket is (allegedly) coming into the supply chain for the RCN, what about bringing it into Army use as well, in place of the rifle green jacket in the summer?

 

[tomahawk6]

Or shirt like the RCMP wear ?

 

[quadrapiper]

Or shirt like the RCMP wear ?

There's already 3Bs for that (rifle green trousers, lighter green shirt); the biggest hole in the Army's sartorial splendour is not having a summer jacket of some kind.

 

[Pusser]

I’d agree with FJAG on this but there were some issues. The bottom hem of the trousers were often black with boot polish. On a hot, humid day on parade the perspiration soaked through the tunic and trousers. The sight wasn’t pretty.

When the Navy DEU was first introduced, only P2s and above received white shoes.  MS and below were expected to wear black shoes/boots.  It didn't take long to realize that was a mistake - you just can't get black shoe polish out of white polyester.  We eventually started issuing white shoes to all ranks.  Having said that, the first issue of white shoes were simply identical to the black shoes (including the decidedly non-navy toe caps), only with white uppers.  I good golf shoe fashion, the soles were still black (and we repeat what I said about the black shoe polish and white polyester.  Epic fail on both counts that took awhile to correct.

 

[dimsum]

When the Navy DEU was first introduced, only P2s and above received white shoes.  MS and below were expected to wear black shoes/boots.  It didn't take long to realize that was a mistake - you just can't get black shoe polish out of white polyester.  We eventually started issuing white shoes to all ranks.  Having said that, the first issue of white shoes were simply identical to the black shoes (including the decidedly non-navy toe caps), only with white uppers.  I good golf shoe fashion, the soles were still black (and we repeat what I said about the black shoe polish and white polyester.  Epic fail on both counts that took awhile to correct.

Weren't those the weird off-white ones, with matching off-white belts?

 

[FSTO]

Weren't those the weird off-white ones, with matching off-white belts?

Those belts were urine in colour. The USN have very nice white cloth ones.

 

[FJAG]

Incoming Sergeant Major of the Army hints at new throwback uniform design Published July 3, 2019 By Whiskey Fueled Tirade

THE PENTAGON—Sources say the newest Sergeant Major of the Army plans to field a throwback uniform to inspire pride within the ranks and prepare the Army for the impending wars with Iran, North Korea, Venezuela, Russia, China, and The Duchy of Monaco.

“The ‘pinks and greens’ represent the last time the Army was truly great,” said incoming Sergeant Major of the Army Command Sgt. Maj. Michael Grinston. “But our service uniform should reflect the first time the Army was great. I mean, we didn’t fight a near-peer adversary in the 1770s and ‘80s, we beat the best standing army in the world.”

An Army spokesperson said the new uniforms, known as ‘colonial blues,’ will be modeled after those from the American Revolutionary War. The uniforms will include a powdered wig, tricorn hat, linen shirt, wool coat with vest, one-size-fits-all leather shoes, and an optional louse comb. Soldiers will trade in their MOLLE packs for haversacks and their magazines for cartridge boxes. At roughly $2,500 a set, soldiers will arrive to battle and mortuary affairs in style.

Sources say Grinston will not be the first Sergeant Major of the Army to make tough decisions regarding uniforms. His predecessor, Daniel Dailey advocated for the “pinks and greens” uniforms, and Raymond Chandler—Dailey’s predecessor—instituted the Army Service Uniform.

“The office of the Sergeant Major of the Army has a long tradition of uniform modifications. In fact, the position was created to soothe the Off-Post Dry Cleaning and Alterations lobby back in the ‘60s to ensure jobs for war brides returning from Vietnam,” said Army historian Kent Patterson. “You can’t make uniform decisions anywhere in the Department of Defense without OPDCAL permission. Everyone knows they have ties to the Korean, Vietnamese, and Filipino mafias.”

As the Sergeant Major of the Army, Grinston will have the power to influence lasting and positive changes to the Army or dedicate his time and attention to embracing the neuroses for which he wants to be remembered. Given his background, soldiers are hopeful he will do what is best for the Army.

“We’ve got run-down barracks, black mold in family housing, and a glut of shitty NCOs who got promoted when we were trying to grow the Army,” said Spc. Jay Gapuzan. “I have faith this new guy will worry about more than new uniforms, facial hair, and neck tattoos.”

https://www.duffelblog.com/2019/07/incoming-sergeant-major-of-the-army-hints-at-new-throwback-uniform-design/

;D

 

[Journeyman]

Incoming Sergeant Major of the Army hints at new throwback uniform....

Sometimes it's hard to distinguish sarcastic blogging from actual uniform/bling directives.  :nod: