B.C. shipbuilders upset new ferries made in Germany

[GAP]

Are these the same shipyards that Canada wants to build some new ships, when they can't handle a ferry? Am I missing something here......like the whole point?

B.C. shipbuilders upset new ferries made in Germany
Updated Wed. Sep. 19 2007 10:11 PM ET CTV.ca News Staff
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A new ferry is expected to reach British Columbia next month, but the local shipbuilding industry is upset BC Ferries decided to have the vessel and two others built in northern Germany.

"We still say that these ferries should have been built in British Columbia by British Columbians," George Macpherson, a member of BC Shipyard Workers' Federation, told CTV British Columbia.

The first of three new Super-C class vessels, Coastal Renaissance, will arrive on B.C.'s shoreline on October 26 from Flensburg, Germany. It is expected to begin operating on the Horseshoe Bay to Nanaimo route in March.

Two other vessels, Coastal Inspiration and Coastal Celebration, are expected by this summer. All three will be emblazoned with decals promoting the 2010 Olympic and Paralympic Games.

Germany's FSG Shipyards has never failed to finish a vessel on time during its 135 years in business.
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[FredDaHead]

The decision of building new navy ships in Canada is purely political. Apparently the same impetus isn't there for ferries. Strange that we're willing to sacrifice the quality of the defense of our country, but not that of carrying cars and people around. Funny how that works out, isn't it?

 

[BC Old Guy]

While the BC govt would likely provide all sorts of reasons about why these ferries were built offshore, I believe (wouldn't be able to prove) that memory of the Fast Cat ferries built by the previous BC govt,  had something to do with the decision to build outside of BC.  The Fast Cat ferries did not prove to work out, and are still for sale, sitting at dock in North Vancouver.  They make beautiful, if expensive, decorations to the dock.

 

[IN HOC SIGNO]

All orchestrated by the NDP Government of the day to appease the Unions. Shows what a colossal failure socialism is in my opinion. An ill thought out, ill constructed vessal that cost the taxpayers billions of dollars and still isn't serving the people who paid for the construction.

 

[karl28]

              Why build something in Canada  if you can get a better machine and a better deal out side of Canada . Canadian industries need to wake up  if they want to  stay competitive .  The Tax Payers dollars shouldn't be spent just because its the patriotic thing to do .

 

[Sub_Guy]

BC Ferries is no longer run by the government.

So I say build where you can get the better deal.


Sucks to be a unionized BC shipbuilder!!

Lets see do I buy a ship from a company who has been making reliable ships, or do I go with the Canadian company who will most likely be well behind schedule and who also doesn't have the experience that Hanz Freidrich can provide.

 

[geo]

Note that BC Ferries didn't buy US either...

To have a reliable ship building industry you need to have a regular & steady stream of orders.
This will create a demand for good naval design architects & give incentive for the shipyards to keep investing in new technology.

If BC Ferries was ordering a new ship every 5 years,  they would be continuously renewing their fleet & shipyards would have an incentive to look forward.

If the Cdn navy only comes out every 15 to 20 years and places an order for 15 ships and they have to be delivered ASAP, then they will get crap work all the time.  Shipyards will know that it's feast & famine & won't bother to invest more than what is needed to get "that" job done.

It's Canada's own fault if our shipyards are a shambles.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Actually the fast cats are very well built, it’s more a case of the technology not being up to the task and to much political interference. Compared to other ships in the class the fast cats come out well. They also attempted to resolve some of the issues that confront the only successful class of fast cats, the Incats. The ability to use existing loading facilities and have RO-RO with fast loading /unloading times was seen to be a very important feature. This is something the Incats give up with their horseshoe shaped car decks. The current health of the aluminum boat building sector here in BC is a direct result of the knowledge gained by building those ships.
A couple of the problems is that engines were the biggest they could get into the hull, and to get more horsepower would have meant going with turbines, this led to heat build up problems. The runs where really to short to maximize the advantages of the fast cats over regular ferries. The very large wood debris we have here, was a problem, as it has been for every fast ferry that has been attempted here. The political interference in the program by Glen Clark drove up the costs and built up unreal expectations. They should have slowed down construction and allowed the first ferry to operate for a year and use those lessons to modify the other 2. Most fast ferry operators use theirs in different areas at different times of the year to maximize returns or lay them up during off seasons, neither were possible here. The Liberals compounded the NDP mistakes by selling the ferries at rock bottom prices and refuse to use them to replace other ferries as renting them back would show that they made a mistake selling them. At the very least they should kept them in limited service to replace broken down ferries until other new ferries came on line.

The current BC government thumbed their noses at the BC shipyards as a way to help destroy what they felt is a heavily unionized industry. What they are doing is throwing the baby out with the bath water. Most of our shipyards depend on repair business to stay alive and have an excellent rep for getting the job done. Unlike the east coats yards they get very little in the way of government contracts.  However they need the new builds so they can invest in capital improvements in order to keep up with technology changes and wear and tear. The decision to build offshore is going to hurt the basic infrastructure to maintain these vessels. A very short sighted way of doing stuff. 

The fast ferries program was a gamble to create a possible niche market in the marine ship building market for our shipyards, the NDP should have been up front that this was a gamble and kept their political noses out of the program. The Liberals are compounding the problems created by the NDP, dumb and dumber.

 

[BC Old Guy]

Colin P

        Well said.  You have done an excellent summary of the issue.  I followed the news reports as the fast cats were built, and you have reinforced my thoughts on what went wrong with the program.

 

[Greymatters]

To have a reliable ship building industry you need to have a regular & steady stream of orders.

Thats it in a nutshell - we dont so we didnt.   

 

[Neill McKay]

The decision of building new navy ships in Canada is purely political. Apparently the same impetus isn't there for ferries. Strange that we're willing to sacrifice the quality of the defense of our country, but not that of carrying cars and people around. Funny how that works out, isn't it?

It costs a lot of money to build ships in Canada compared with other countries.  Even with a substantial duty on imported ships (in the order of 20-30 per cent) it's still often cheaper to build overseas.

The decision to build naval and coast guard vessels in Canada is a political decision in which the federal government swallows the larger bill for the sake of providing industrial benefits to Canadian businesses.  BC Ferries, being very much at arm's length from government (for just this reason), simply goes where it can get the best price for the ships it wants.  It's got nothing to do with sacrificing quality.

 

[geo]

It costs a lot of money to build ships in Canada compared with other countries. 

The decision to build naval and coast guard vessels in Canada is a political decision in which the federal government swallows the larger bill for the sake of providing industrial benefits to Canadian businesses.

It costs a lot of money because the shipyards have to start from scratch every time.
We don't have naval architects with the expertise - because the gov't only books orders once in a blue moon....

If the Federal gov't (Navy, fisheries & Coast Guard) would order ships as an ongoing project, we could improve ship design on an ongoing basis... instead of waiting 20 yrs to incorporate into a new ship's class.  What is the good of ordering and taking delivery of 10 frigates (example only) when we don,t have the personnel and gear to sail all 10 at any one time.  Why not spread out the order - take delivery of 1 at the very start and then take delivery of 1 more (of same class) every 2 years.  at the end of 20 years, (useful life?) your last (of order of 10) would be very modern while you would be paying out the oldest.

Do the same thing for the CG & fisheries.... you would give incentive for Canadians to become Naval architects & Canadian firms motivation to invest in their business.

 

[Greymatters]

The decision to build naval and coast guard vessels in Canada is a political decision in which the federal government swallows the larger bill for the sake of providing industrial benefits to Canadian businesses. 

It is also a significant security issue, as building at home mitigates the risk of foreign nations doing something or installing somthing that we would not want there.

 

[GK .Dundas]

It also didn't help when the premier kept telling the engineer designing the vessel how he should do his job. as I understand it the interference was  so great that the designer simply refused to sign off on the project
Ask any engineer what it means if he doesn't sign off on project

 

[geo]

Ask any construction firm / contractor what it means to build something on plans that have not been signed

 

[Timmy!]

Germany's FSG Shipyards has never failed to finish a vessel on time during its 135 years in business.

I wonder if they made Kriegsmarine's aircraft carrier Graf Zeppelin?  ;D