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Be careful guys.-Military Expects 5 to 10 Deaths in Afganastan-Article

John Nayduk

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From the National Post

Military expects five to 10 soldiers to die on Afghan job
CFB PETAWAWA, Ont. - Military intelligence experts have estimated the Canadian troops being sent to Afghanistan will almost certainly suffer as many as 10 fatal casualties during their first six-month tour of duty.

http://www.nationalpost.com/national/story.html?id=AF104D09-4B0C-412E-918A-47995A9848C7
 
http://www.thestar.ca/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1052251856002&call_pageid=968332188492&col=968793972154

Expect casualties, general warns
Canadian troops training for worst in Afghanistan
Soldiers to patrol the dangerous streets of Kabul


SONIA VERMA
STAFF REPORTER

CFB Petawawa—Canadians should brace for casualties when soldiers deploy on a peacekeeping mission to Afghanistan later this summer, a top military commander says.

"Things could get really ugly in a split second," Brig.-Gen. Andrew Leslie predicted near a dusty training field on this base, where troops were running through their final phase of urban warfare training.

"We are training for the worst case and that‘s what these circumstances are," said Leslie, who will head up the Canadian headquarters of the International Security Assistance Force, charged with patrolling the streets of Kabul.

His stark warning was issued as most of these soldiers make their final preparations for a six-month tour that begins in August, dubbed Operation Athena.

Their mission is to keep Kabul safe, so the Afghan Transitional Authority and aid agencies can rebuild the war-torn country.

Working in lockstep with the country‘s new military and police forces, they will try to quell the violence that has simmered in Afghanistan since the U.S. pulled out most of its troops.

A battle group, a brigade group headquarters and support elements make up Canada‘s initial contribution of 1,800 soldiers.

A second rotation, equal in size, will relieve them in February.

The soldiers are under order to be firm, fair and friendly with the local population.

Many have served on peacekeeping missions in Kosovo and Bosnia. But speaking to reporters brought in to observe their training, Leslie says this mission is unlike anything they have ever faced before.

"It‘s not a classic peacekeeping mission where you have two warring factions with Canadians and allies in the middle," he says.

He describes Kabul as "hideously complex," a place where a mix of poverty and lawlessness fuel a rising tide of violence.

Recent attacks on German and Norwegian peacekeepers have brought the threat home. In the latest incident, a suicide bomb that targeted a busload of German peacekeepers on their way to the airport to catch flights home, killed four soldiers.

Asked to rank the danger factor of his upcoming mission, Leslie replies:

"On a scale of one to five, with five being extreme, full-on combat, I would say this is a four."

"But if it was an easy mission, why send us? This is a dangerous, complex mission and arguably that‘s what we do best," he adds.

Behind him, soldiers with Charlie Company of the Royal Canadian Regiment undergo a series of drills designed to make them battle ready.

A cinder block compound mimics the type of urban environment they will patrol with their C-7 rifles cocked.

With narrow hallways, secret doorways and no electricity, the two-storey houses echo with the sound of blank ammunition fire.

Soldiers are asked to carry out various missions under the watchful eye of military instructors. Dressed in combat gear they learn to search a building for weapons, rescue a hostage and respond to sniper fire.

Standing in the vanishing shade on a cigarette break, soldiers of Charlie Company ponder their upcoming mission.

Many signed up for service to escape dead-end jobs, secure a steady paycheque or continue a family tradition.

This tour is the type that marks the high point of most military careers, and generates the kinds of war stories they‘ll tell their children.

Cpl. Sean Niefer says everyone knows the dangers they could face.

"I feel like you do before a big hockey game, a little nervous and a little excited," he says. "When you walk into a house like this, your adrenaline starts pumping and sometimes you get tunnel vision."

While defence critics have charged that the government is sending its troops over unprepared for the dangers they could face, commander Leslie dismisses the concern.

"These troops have been battle-ready for a year," he says. "They‘re good to go."

The importance of restoring peace to Afghanistan outweighs the casualties they might sustain says Leslie, who served in Germany and Cyprus.

"Canada has a high interest in ensuring that Afghanistan does not become a failed state, where terrorists could prepare and launch attacks on Canadians."

Though most of his troops have never been to Afghanistan, they speak plainly about the importance of their mission.

Pte. Michael Freeman left a job in the oil patch in northern Alberta to enlist a day after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.

"I think if we deal with the causes of the problem instead of the problem itself we can make a difference," he says.
 
how do they predict that there will be around this many causalites?

looking at statistics of american, german, etc KIA an WIA‘s?


or?
 
The "casualty estimate" in this case seems like a situation of prepare for the worst, hope for the best senario. Here in Pet, the feeling is someone is going to definately be seriously injured or possibly killed on this tour and everyone should prepare for that eventuality through training and family counselling.

They are not saying anything the ISAF troops don‘t already know.
 
Here‘s a good one for you.

After doing work up training at Camp Riply,Minisotta in 95 with 2nd Pat‘s,we had this brass hat give us a Rah Rah speach(forgot get the Gen. name)He,in part of his Rah Rah speach said "for those of you who won‘t be coming back" DOH!!
We all looked at each other wide eyed in shock!
What did he say?Yup that‘s what he said.

We could not believe his comment!!
Make‘s one wonder about our fearless leader‘s!
 
It‘s war... what can you expect.
You may not say it is war because the media says it isn‘t... well some people think the US took their country away from them, al Queda. Some will fight for it back.
 
War is one thing and we all know there will be casulties, and we expect this, but it‘s another thing to print expected casulties as it can be demorilising as every one expect‘s to come home
and not have to worry of being one of the government‘s casulties.
 
It‘s also good to prepare the public for the risks involved. In fact, this was probably more for the benefit of the government - what could be more demoralizing or dangerous than (God forbid) losing a life over there, and having the government change its mandate halfway through the mission because they honestly hadn‘t expected anyone to get injured?
 
http://www.canada.com/national/story.asp?id=F7358AEE-CB06-4AE4-97F9-19F3D83314F0

Casualties likely on new Afghan mission, minister warns

Mike Blanchfield
The Ottawa Citizen


Friday, June 20, 2003
ADVERTISEMENT


Defence Minister John McCallum warned Canadians yesterday to expect casualties on the military‘s upcoming mission to Afghanistan.

"I think this is a dangerous mission for all members of NATO. We saw what happened to the Germans," Mr. McCallum said, referring to the killing of four German soldiers in the Afghan capital by a suicide bomber on June 7.

"I think it can happen to the military of any country."

Mr. McCallum will travel to Kabul on the weekend for a briefing by Afghanistan‘s interim leader, Hamid Karzai.

An advance team of 250 soldiers from CFB Kingston arrived in Afghanistan earlier this month to build the camp and make other preparations for the arrival of 1,850 Canadian soldiers later in the summer.

That will mark the start of Canada‘s one-year commitment to the International Security Assistance Force in Kabul, a 29-nation group that is trying to ensure the stability of the provisional Karzai government.

About 3,600 Canadian troops will rotate through Afghanistan in the coming year and Mr. McCallum pledged they will have the equipment, resources and "robust rules of engagement" they need to stay safe and protect the Afghan people.

About 20 security-force soldiers of various nationalities have been killed since their arrival in the Kabul a year-and-a-half ago.

UN Secretary General Kofi Annan and UN special representative Lakhdar Brahimi have joined Mr. Karzai in asking for the expansion of the security force beyond Kabul.

Mr. Karzai may press this issue on Mr. McCallum when they meet, but the defence minister sees this visit as more of a get-acquainted session, saying it wouldn‘t be his last visit to the embattled country.

Mr. McCallum said it is in Canada‘s national security interest to help restore peace to Afghanistan because the country, as host to the al-Qaeda terrorist network, played a key role in the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks on the U.S.

He noted that al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden, in a November audiotape, singled out Canada as a country that would suffer reprisals for supporting the U.S.-led war on terrorism.

Mr. McCallum dismissed suggestions that the threat, coupled with Canada‘s six-month mission last year helping the U.S. military actively hunt terrorists in southern Afghanistan, would make the soldiers on this upcoming mission greater targets.

"I would not imagine that al-Qaeda would distinguish too much between ... militaries of different countries," he said.

"This is a risky situation for all members of NATO forces that are present in Afghanis-tan."

Soldiers from the 3rd Battalion, Royal Canadian Regiment, based in Petawawa, Ont. in the final stages of their training, and the first soldiers are due to ship out in the next month, Defence Department officials said yesterday.

Friendly Fire Deaths

© Copyright 2003 The Ottawa Citizen
 
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1056049342590_62///?hub=Canada

McCallum to visit Afghanistan ahead of mission

CTV.ca News Staff

Defence Minister John McCallum says safety is the top priority as Canadian troops prepare to be deployed on a peacekeeping mission to Afghanistan.

"It is clear that this is a dangerous mission. So our first priority is to ensure the safety of our people...We have robust rules of engagement. I know as well, that our people are very well trained and well led," McCallum told a news conference.

Concern over the mission has been building in recent weeks. Critics have said Canadian troops have been spread too thin and don‘t have access to all the equipment they need.

"I have to make it very clear that we will spare no effort, and no money, to ensure that our people all the equipment that they need to defend themselves in this difficult position," McCallum said.

Earlier this month, four German soldiers were killed and 29 wounded when a suicide bomber targeted the bus that was taking them to Kabul‘s airport. The soldiers were on their way home.

Another peacekeeper was wounded when Afghan demonstrators hurled stones at the American Embassy in Kabul in May. The protesters also targeted vehicles belonging to the international peacekeeping force.

And four Canadian soldiers were killed in a friendly-fire incident during the war in Afghanistan. Many military families are still struggling to cope with the loss.

Chief of Defence Staff Gen. Ray Henault said a complete support structure will be put in place in Canada for the families of the soldiers participating in the peacekeeping mission.

He said 1,700 soldiers will be sent to Kabul over the summer. Another 200 soldiers be deployed outside the capital towards the end of the summer.

"Our job in Kabul and also in the surrounding area of operation is clear. We‘ll be assisting and maintaining a secure and stable environment for the Afghan transitional authority," Henault said.

McCallum said that he would be visiting Kabul and Afghan President Hamid Karzai ahead of the mission. The Canadian operation has been dubbed "Athena," after the Greek goddess who protected cities.

NATO is scheduled to take charge of the peacekeeping mission on August 11. Under the UN Security Council mandate, international peacekeepers are restricted to Kabul.

British Gen. Sir Jack Deverell, commander of NATO‘s northern headquarters which is planning the Afghan mission, said the eventual aim is to have 16 Provincial Reconstruction Teams fanned across the country.

So far, the United States has sent three teams to the provinces to help improve security while assisting humanitarian projects. McCallum said humanitarian aid was also a key part of the Canadian mission.

"It speaks to Canadian values coming to the aid of a beleaguered nation, a beleaguered people and to provide them with a measure of security, and a measure of humanitarian aid," McCallum said.
 
Inferno,
Oh contrire, mon ami,
This mission to Afghan is NOT war, what it is, just like IFOR and SFOR in Bosnia is an allied armed security force to assist the country‘s government in its efforts to promote law and order, and get its affairs in order to properly govern the country. Yes, some factions may want to forcefully take back control, and that is where the hazard lies with this type of mission.

To expand on my point...the soldiers going to Athena were told to memorize the phrases "We are your friends. We are not your foe, Canada is Afghanistans friend. We want peace in Afghanistan"

Other then the obvious geographical diffrences, how different will this deployment be from IFOR/SFOR, East Timor etc?

I guess we‘ll find out.....
 
An American General said that, eh? Americans must be pretty stupid to have to have things like that pointed out to them. You go somewhere like Afghanistan, where you know there are people who hate you and probably want to kill you, what good does it do having it pointed out that there‘s a good chance some of you may be killed? Does it boost morale? Does it raise the men‘s spirits? I know one thing, having senior officers say there‘s a good chance some of you may not be coming back would sure scare the bejesus out of me; as I‘m sure it would any normal person (or soldier for that matter).
 
Of course it doesn‘t raise men‘s spirits -- the truth of the statement helps prevent them from avoiding the chaotic reality of armed conflict -- I understand that fear can keep you on your toes so you can live by the training.

There‘s no dishonour in being afraid as long as it doesn‘t make you a coward.
 
Well, I guess that‘s a CYA thing, but still, do you think anyone has to really be told thier going to be put in harms way? One thing I think is the greatest attribute of the Canadian soldier is his ability to reason things out for himself, without being micromanaged by every senior ranking official he comes accross. I think we‘re smart enough to realize for ourselves as individuals when we are and when we are not in danger. As Spr. Earl said, being told by someone higher up that you may well be killed
Make‘s one wonder about our fearless leader‘s
As well as suprising the crap out of everyone.
 
If the Government is expecting a number of fatalities from the mission in Afgan. because of the hostile evironment they will be in.

Then, when will the Government acknowledge that the Canadians in Afgan. are entering a zone of conflict or combat. Allow the men and women to have the full support from DVA or VAC upon their return.

Or at least, have Ottawa pull out their time machine again, and acknowledge that 3PPCLI and support, that were on the ground in Afgan., are in fact war veterans.

:cdn:
 
This is a good point Redneck. They should be recognized for going into a combat zone. The book Tested Metal ran over some sad situations for Yugoslavia vets.
 
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