Becoming a Pilot in the CF.

[J_Muir]

As a DEO, I call BS.  I'm highly motivated not because I got my degree on my own.  I'm highly motivated because I love what I'm here for, and I motivate myself accordingly.  We have a pile of RMC kids going through the ropes here right now, and they are no differently motivated than those of us who got our civvie degrees first.  You will see people trying to buck the system on both ends.  You will find good and bad sailors and soldiers regardless of their entry program.  Do not come in with any sort of preconceived opinions about DEO vs RMC vs CFR's, it will be more harmful than helpful.

Know why YOU want to be here, and worry about YOU.  The military will tell you when it's time to start worrying about others, and believe me, it'll be a while.

T

Like I said, I was just speculating. I dont know enough about it to make objective statements. I was just trying to get my point across - that the military needs motivated people like myself, regardless of background.

 

[jmnavy]

I finally got my transfer to go through so I'm another DEO pilot, leaving for botc in 3 weeks.  Any advice on which bases would be good for experiencing tac hel during the pre-portage OJT months?  I understand I have some say in where I'll be put after botc and I'm trying to figure out what my choices would be.  I've seen the list of bases on dnd.ca but I've never been to most of them, only borden and valcartier.
Thanks

 

[observor 69]

Like I said, I was just speculating. I dint know enough about it to make objective statements. I was just trying to get my point across - that the military needs motivated people like myself, regardless of background.

  Point taken. And by the way some DEO's have done quite well for themselves:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Hillier

 

[J_Muir]

After passing ACS, how long until a person begins Officer training, SLT and Primary flight training?

 

[Zoomie]

After passing ACS, how long until a person begins Officer training, SLT and Primary flight training?

It all depends on when the next Pilot Selection board is sitting.  They only sit once or twice a year AFAIK.

Don't expect a summer BOTC - most likely start dates will be Sept or Jan.

September BOTC start timeline would be as such.

Basic Training (IAP, BOTP, whatever it is called this week) - Sept - Dec
Second Language Training (if the AF decides to send you) Jan - Aug
Air Force OPME residential program - Sept - Oct (if PFT not on the horizon)
Primary Flight Training - Oct - Dec (if loaded immediately).

*edit- Just fixed your quotes Z. 

 

[J_Muir]

It all depends on when the next Pilot Selection board is sitting.  They only sit once or twice a year AFAIK.

Don't expect a summer BOTC - most likely start dates will be Sept or Jan.

September BOTC start timeline would be as such.

Basic Training (IAP, BOTP, whatever it is called this week) - Sept - Dec
Second Language Training (if the AF decides to send you) Jan - Aug
Air Force OPME residential program - Sept - Oct (if PFT not on the horizon)
Primary Flight Training - Oct - Dec (if loaded immediately).

Thanks, good to know. I probably need to get in contact with a recruiter about this, but I'll ask anyway - Is it possible to send in my application for ACS before I have a physical copy of my degree. Because what I'd like to do is send it all in just as I'm finishing school so that I can pretty much head straight into it, rather than waiting around for convocation to finish. Basically, just speeding things up from my end.

*edit - quotes fixed. 

 

[jmnavy]

They never asked me for a copy of my degree, only for my university transcript.  Right now mine says that my program has been completed but that my degree has yet to be conferred and that seems to be enough for them, so it's doubtful that you'd have to wait for your convocation.

As far as timelines go, if you're going to finish your degree in april 08 (you said 2 years left right?) and want to do botc in september, then I'd start the application process by late 07.  Here's roughly the timeline I've been through leading up to botc this september.

Sep 05 Submitted application
Nov 05 Medical
Dec 05 Optometrist exam
Feb 06 ACS
Apr 06 Interview/fitness test
June 06 Board sits
July 06 Job offer
Aug 06 Swearing in ceremony
Sep 06 BOTC

The order's a little different for me than it will be for you.  Because I was a transfer I didn't have to do my interview and fitness until after acs, you'll have to do it before.  You'll also have to write an aptitude test early on in the process.  Generally the two steps that put a halt to most people are the optometrist's exam and ACS.  Not much you can do about the first, but for getting through ACS there are a couple of good threads out there.  Your recruiting centre should also give you a study guide when the time comes.

 

[J_Muir]

They never asked me for a copy of my degree, only for my university transcript.  Right now mine says that my program has been completed but that my degree has yet to be conferred and that seems to be enough for them, so it's doubtful that you'd have to wait for your convocation.

As far as timelines go, if you're going to finish your degree in april 08 (you said 2 years left right?) and want to do botc in september, then I'd start the application process by late 07.   Here's roughly the timeline I've been through leading up to botc this september.

Sep 05 Submitted application
Nov 05 Medical
Dec 05 Optometrist exam
Feb 06 ACS
Apr 06 Interview/fitness test
June 06 Board sits
July 06 Job offer
Aug 06 Swearing in ceremony
Sep 06 BOTC

The order's a little different for me than it will be for you.  Because I was a transfer I didn't have to do my interview and fitness until after acs, you'll have to do it before.  You'll also have to write an aptitude test early on in the process.  Generally the two steps that put a halt to most people are the optometrist's exam and ACS.  Not much you can do about the first, but for getting through ACS there are a couple of good threads out there.  Your recruiting centre should also give you a study guide when the time comes.

Thanks for the info man, I really appreciate it. So did you get contacted with direction to get a medical and to see an optometrist? I assume after they recieved your application, they sent you a response requesting those tests and then you sent them the results when they were complete - and then they gave you your ACS date.

I've read up a lot on ACS. Sounds like it has potential to actually be a fun time (more so if you pass!) How did you make out at ACS? What did you find the most challenging parts? Anything you would have prepared for more? Do you actually find out the same day if you passed? Finally, if you pass ACS, what sorts of things does the board look at when deciding upon what to offer you? I mean if you pass, you pass right?...or do they disect each portion of ACS and decide from there?

Thanks again

 

[jmnavy]

ACS was tough, mostly because it's so much waiting.  Day 2 in particular was just 2 one hour simulator sessions and a bunch of waiting around.  I think I showed up as well prepared as anyone even though I only have a few hours of actual flying experience.  The rest was a lot practicing on ms flight simulator using a usb yoke and pedals (see the link I posted above for info about them).  I also booked a few simulator lessons at a flight school in town with an instructor which was a big help.

I don't know what the board looks at but one of the guys who passed ACS with me was later rejected as a ROTP candidate.  My understanding from speaking to one of the guys at the recruiting centre about it was that this year was a very competitive year for rotp pilot and he just didn't make the grade, but I don't know what specifically did it for him.  The moral of the story is that every step is important.

When you start the process I do have this advice for you; keep in touch with your recruiting centre regularly.  Call them or see them in person ("I was in the area") every three or four weeks to ask a couple of questions and get an update.  There's a balance to strike between being proactive and being a pest of course (if you call and they recognize your name, that's good.  If they recognize your voice, that's very bad), but it's a long process so building a relationship of sorts with your recruiting centre is important.

Edit: Here's the link I meant to reference regarding the usb yoke and pedals.  http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/36026.0.html

 

[inferno]

What JMnavy said is important.

Definitely keep in touch. I think I only got called once or twice during the entire process. Most of the time I'd call up, and when I said my name the clerk (I don't know if I was lucky, but in my opinion I had a great clerk) would instantly recognise it and ask me how school was going, and so on.

After that she'd say.. "Oh.. btw, I have your... blank.. here and you can come pick it up.. drop it off." whatever needed to be done.

I was very surprised after my first few calls. Definitely made me feel like they were looking out for my file, and I wasn't just another peice of paper in a desk drawer. I don't know if its just for applicants that are more involved.. (eg. have to go to ACS.. or any other extra testing/paperwork) but by the time I finished, when I walked into the center, the Lt.(N), the Clerk, and her assistant would all recogise me, say hello.. ask how school/acs/eye tests... and so on were going or went. Seemed genuinely happy when I came into the recruiting center with a HUGE grin after going to ACS.

 

[J_Muir]

Can anyone provdie details as to what PFT is like? Is it a lot of academics or more flying - or a heavy mix of both? Also, how do you get evaluated during primary flight training? Tests? Instructor 'report cards'? I'm curious to know.

Thanks.

 

[SupersonicMax]

PFT, what a great time  ;D

The first 2 weeks are purely academics (ground school).  You learn Piston Engineering, Aerodynamics, Meteorology, AOIs (Aircraft Operating Instructions), Instrumentation, Procedures and Flight Safety (I might miss something here...).  It's 8 hours of classroom time every day.  There is a prog test and a final test on every subject.  The average for the class is usualy 93-95%. 

After those 2 weeks, you hit the flight line.  You are evaluated on every single flight and you have to meet a certain standard in order to do the next flight.  If you don't meet the standard, you have to do an extra dual.  Obviously, you don't have as many as you want... I think you are alowed to have 20% of the total flight time of the course for Extra Flights (Re-tests and ED).  You also have 2 flight tests, the first beeing the Initial ClearHood Test (ICHT).  Once you passed that, you do your first solo.  The Final ClearHood Test is the last flight of the course and evaluates pretty much all you learned.  There is approx. 27 Flight Hours of which 4.5 are solo (those numbers might have changed since I've done the course)

Max

 

[J_Muir]

PFT, what a great time  ;D

The first 2 weeks are purely academics (ground school).  You learn Piston Engineering, Aerodynamics, Meteorology, AOIs (Aircraft Operating Instructions), Instrumentation, Procedures and Flight Safety (I might miss something here...).  It's 8 hours of classroom time every day.  There is a prog test and a final test on every subject.  The average for the class is usualy 93-95%. 

After those 2 weeks, you hit the flight line.  You are evaluated on every single flight and you have to meet a certain standard in order to do the next flight.  If you don't meet the standard, you have to do an extra dual.  Obviously, you don't have as many as you want... I think you are alowed to have 20% of the total flight time of the course for Extra Flights (Re-tests and ED).  You also have 2 flight tests, the first beeing the Initial ClearHood Test (ICHT).  Once you passed that, you do your first solo.  The Final ClearHood Test is the last flight of the course and evaluates pretty much all you learned.  There is approx. 27 Flight Hours of which 4.5 are solo (those numbers might have changed since I've done the course)

Max

Thanks Max.

So I take it PFT is 100% business then..no dickin around kinda deal - probably no time to anyways! With averages of 93-95%, sounds like when you're not in class, you're studying the material. Do many people flunk out at this stage or what?

I think i'd like the idea of being confined to learning and studying like that. Here at home, there are so many damn distractions at times and very little studying gets done unless i lock myself in  my room.

 

[SupersonicMax]

Actually it's pretty easy to get those averages... If you work at it everynight.

I used to study 4 hrs a night during ground school, watch a little bit of TV, exercise every day, go out on the week ends and get a 99% average.  I have never heard of anyone failing the ground school. (you need 75% on most of the tests to pass and 85% and 90% on some of them)

During the flying phase, I'd study 4 hrs a night as well and chair fly a LOT, go in the plane if I wasn't flying during the day and practice procedures with a friend.  If you do what you are told to to during this phase, there isn't going to be a problem I think.  Sometimes, hard working people just won't make it.  You still need to have some kind of motor skills in order to succeed. Sometimes, people that should fail, pass and people that should pass, fail....

Max

 

[J_Muir]

Actually it's pretty easy to get those averages... If you work at it everynight.

I used to study 4 hrs a night during ground school, watch a little bit of TV, exercise every day, go out on the week ends and get a 99% average.  I have never heard of anyone failing the ground school. (you need 75% on most of the tests to pass and 85% and 90% on some of them)

During the flying phase, I'd study 4 hrs a night as well and chair fly a LOT, go in the plane if I wasn't flying during the day and practice procedures with a friend.  If you do what you are told to to during this phase, there isn't going to be a problem I think.  Sometimes, hard working people just won't make it.  You still need to have some kind of motor skills in order to succeed. Sometimes, people that should fail, pass and people that should pass, fail....

Max

Thanks again Max,

I guess when you're getting paid to study and learn new material, it makes it a lot easier to buckle down. If only I got paid at civy univiversity right now!! Not to mention, when you actually ENJOY what you're studying and learning about - that makes things whole lot easier as well.

I imagine Moose Jaw and any proceeding flying courses after that follow the same trend then. Ground school, tests, flying, tests etc etc.

 

[SupersonicMax]

Moose Jaw actually has a period during which you do both... I'm not there yet but I can imagine this is pretty intense.

Max

 

[J_Muir]

Moose Jaw actually has a period during which you do both... I'm not there yet but I can imagine this is pretty intense.

Max

Yeah I can well imagine, as this is basically the stage which decides what you'll be flying for the rest of your career. So are you currently doing OJT somewhere? What do they have you doing?

 

[SupersonicMax]

I'm at 402 Squadron in Winnipeg (they fly the Dash 8).  I work the OPS desk as most of the pilot OJTs.  I get to fly a lot (well, as much as I want) and go to various airshows (going to Abbotsford Airshow this weekend).  I will soon be doing AMT, SERE and Sea Survival as well as a Basic Electronic Warfare Course I requested to do.

Max

 

[J_Muir]

I'm at 402 Squadron in Winnipeg (they fly the Dash 8).  I work the OPS desk as most of the pilot OJTs.  I get to fly a lot (well, as much as I want) and go to various airshows (going to Abbotsford Airshow this weekend).  I will soon be doing AMT, SERE and Sea Survival as well as a Basic Electronic Warfare Course I requested to do.

Max

Right on. That's great you get to fly a lot.

So do you actually live on the base or what? I mean, I most likely will not have a family to worry about at the time, so would not require a house to live in. I haven't got many answers regarding this. Are there dorm-like quarters or what? - I really have no idea what to expect when it comes to that aspect of lifestyle during OJT. Also, are living quarters paid for? What about food and what not? This is one area of 'the process' i'm completely ignorant about.

 

[Inch]

Moose Jaw actually has a period during which you do both... I'm not there yet but I can imagine this is pretty intense.

Max

You actually do this for 8 weeks or so.

You do 3 weeks of AOI, aerodynamics and met classes, then you do 5 cockpit trainers in the Harvard Simulators as well as egress training and a few more classes. Then week 5 you hit the flight line for half day flying and half day ground school for 8 weeks. I think in total we did 16 weeks of ground school, quite a bit but reasonable when you consider that you go from know nothing about instrument flying to knowing enough to get an instrument rating.

As for the intensity, this varies greatly from person to person based on your ability to retain what you've learned as well as what your level of knowledge was before hand. I didn't find it all that bad at all after the first 3 weeks because of my Aviation College background and my civilian instrument rating. So while some guys would come back from the glass palace (Col OB Complex, the home of 2CFFTS) and then study the night away, I was free most nights unless we had a test the next day or I was helping out one of the guys.

Right on. That's great you get to fly a lot.

So do you actually live on the base or what? I mean, I most likely will not have a family to worry about at the time, so would not require a house to live in. I haven't got many answers regarding this. Are there dorm-like quarters or what? - I really have no idea what to expect when it comes to that aspect of lifestyle during OJT. Also, are living quarters paid for? What about food and what not? This is one area of 'the process' i'm completely ignorant about.

Have a read through the recruiting FAQ, that's all been answered before in great detail.