Being a "Grey man", or blending in on course - [Merged]

[Munner]

Don't strive for glory for yourself. Just help your buddies out and you will earn the respect of your instructors and fellow troops.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Being the greyman on recruit course
(Reserve side)

Lots of people will say aim to be the grey man on your recruit course. Well don't. I've gone whole courses without the instructors really knowing my name. Just cruised by. It does have benefits sometimes but NOT as a recruit.

First off it can really backfire.  If it looks like your hiding from work, never volunteering for anything someones gonna notice.
Your instructors will see it and give you 3 times as much work and your buddies are gonna see it and think you're an asshole.(and they will be right) 
I tried to play the grey man and avoid work parties and ended up being on lunch and supper weapons picket (watching weapons while everyone ate) for 2 weeks straight. That sucks.

Lots of people treat being the grey man like avoiding work and basically contact with everyone. Your recruit course is basically your foot in the door to the military. You're going to meet friends that you will work with and run into for the rest of your military career. Almost 10 years later I'm still running into people I was on my basic with. You will too. If you were lazy and shiftless back then that's how you're always going to be remembered.

Just as important are your instructors.  It's not a case of never seeing them again. You're always going to run into them. You'll work with them and might even hang out in the mess afterwards.
If you go back to your armories after training and there is a position for a soldier to go on a jump course, driving course, peacekeeping tour, adventure training etc..  Who do you think they will pick?  Someone who they taught but don't even remember OR the soldier who constantly volunteered for shit jobs, constantly asked questions and made a good name for themselves.

On your recruit course you don't want to cruise by under the radar. So what if you might loose a little more sleep doing some extra work or helping someone out. Or your free time is cut into a little because you stayed behind to clean up brass on the range.
First impressions guys. On your recruit course (and even after your first year in as a private) you want to make a good name for yourself with your fellow soldiers AND your instructors. That first impression you guys make over that 6 weeks (or whatever)  is going to follow you the rest of your army career.

I can't speak for regular force basic training/battleschool but I know reservists who have transfered to the regular force and because the people you meet during your course and the contacts you make are SO important, they choose to redo basic training or their infantry training JUST to make a name for themselves and meet people.

 

[Bradboy]

  On the contrary, I found in my basic training that the ones always volunteering came across as "ass kissers" to others in the platoon. It seemed they were volunteering to do extra because they were trying to impress our instructors, not because they wanted to help the others. I found the guys and girls who made the best impressions were the ones who would help someone when they saw them struggeling without being asked. We had a few guys who were quick to jump up and help someone when the instructors were watching but there were very few who would actually lend a helping hand when the instructors weren't around. My advice would be to just be real. Don't volunteer because you want the instructors to notice you, volunteer because you want to help out your platoon. There's nothing worse than an ass kisser in your platoon and nothing better than a team player.

 

[medicineman]

Have to agree with Bradboy - there were the mouthy, overly volunteeristic ex - Reserve guys, and those of us that let it be known amongst ourselves who we were.  We helped the guys out where needed and pulled our share and often then some - especially helping guys with kit, drill and other sundry subjects.  After a bit, the instructors knew who was who anyhow.  The loudmouths, especially ones that were a little more than annoying, ended up on Trg Sgt's and recoursed (one guy for ever and ever and ever...).  The others were often put into leadership positions; those that weren't were still monitored closely to ensure they were passing on things that they knew and weren't coasting.  It was rather amazing to find out how much my Drill Instructors really knew about us - weekly assessments became quite scary to read actually, as I was pretty much convinced by graduation that the barracks had bugs and other surveillance systems in them - stuff that happened was just too coincidental.  My advice, if you want to get noticed, do by soing something cool like helping out people - volunteering too much get you noticed alright, but not just by the instructors.  Your fellow candidates can make or break you - if you kiss too much ass, something will happen to your kit mysteriously, or if you're having problems somewhere, no help will materialize and next thing you know, your just another bag licker on Trg Sgt's Inspection.

MM

 

[rifleman]

If you are getting noticed then you haven't mastered the art of being grey. Being grey doesn't mean you don't help out, it just means you help out without recognition. Unfortunately, the grey don't normally top courses but can be excellent troops. They do the job.

 

[winchable]

I got the opposite impression from the last two poster, I'm kind of with Ghost.
I noticed that if people see someone else being pro-active and volunteering, getting right in there, the rest of the course picks up the pace a bit too and everyone benefits as a result.

You don't have to blade the entire course in the process of course but if no one else is going to step up and you've got the drive to do so, I say go for it; it drives me nuts to think that people should feel a need to be a grey man because no one else wants to give it hard the whole course.

There's nothing wrong with being the grey man, but it's detrimental to everyone if there's some silent agreement that everyone must be the greyman.

 

[medicineman]

One of the main concerns is you can come across as a know it all - that doesn't often go over well with instructors and candidates alike, hence the reccomendations to keep to yourself.  There is a difference between stepping to the plate and trying to make a triple out of a single.  I haven't seen many Top Candidate Shields do much for people's careers these days but look cool on their ego walls.  I  guess What I'm trying to say is, sure, seek and accept responsibility, but be careful how you do it and what you're doing.

MM

 

[winchable]

Oh everyone hates a know-it-all agreed;
I was under the impression we were talking about things like volunteering when an instructor says "I need five of you over there, move."
I mean you know you're going to get stuck with a shit job but nothings worse than an instructor saying that and no one moving, it just brings the instructor down on the course and puts everyone on edge.

 

[Synthos]

I'm on reserve BMQ right now. Basically, your responsibility goes from yourself, to your fireteam partner/roommate(s), to your section, and your platoon. If you're done with yourself pick out the person that's lagging behind and help them. I've dressed people before to make it to breakfast timing. Inspections can sometimes seem different because you're never perfect (or very rarely ever). You've got to at least check that other people are meeting YOUR standard and that your standard is as high as theirs.

Asking questions in classes is natural, just think about whether the question is really necessary/relevant. I ask questions because I'm thinking about the material as I'm learning it, and if anything interesting and necessary comes up you should ask it. Don't yell at your coursemates without reason or with too much frequency.. That's gets annoying. There's is NO REASON whatso ever for people to think badly of someone who volunteers. If for some reason I don't feel like doing the job I'm GLAD that someone else has the balls to do it. If someone thinks I'm a kiss-ass for volunteering let them do the fricking job.

Encourage and help your teammates, and volunteer when you think you owe it to your platoon (if you don't think you owe it... that just means you owe it twice as much).

 

[GO!!!]

I could'nt agree less with Ghost.

IME, the guy on my course who had the best (or least worst) experience in Battle school was the one who the course WO approached on the Grad Parade - and asked who he was, why he was there, and if he knew which course he was on. You don't have to screw your buddies over, or shirk your job, but if the instructors just see another body working, the default setting is "good".

The boot licks who felt the need to vocally express their teamwork and "help" people that could'nt achieve the minimum cursed us with their incessant chatter and guys who could not stand alone, as they became dependent on the assistance.

Certain things require teamwork (log PT, obstacle courses, section atks) and certain things should be the domain of the individual (UAC, PT and kit and quarters), so being "gray" is not that bad an idea, the trick is to find the happy medium.

 

[Jarnhamar]

On the contrary, I found in my basic training that the ones always volunteering came across as "ass kissers" to others in the platoon.

I was under the impression we were talking about things like volunteering when an instructor says "I need five of you over there, move."

Common sense here guys. (Che that's exactly what I'm talking about.)

You can tell the difference between the soldier who volunteers because he thinks it will make him look good in the instructors eyes  AND the soldier who volunteers because he's not afraid to extra work and just wants to see the work done instead of people looking down dragging their feet.

Any soldier has seen it.
You see it anytime you need a work party.  Troops overhear an officer tell an NCO that they want something done so the NCO approaches the body of troops and troops
a. start to walk away
b.turn their back towards the NCO so their not noticed
c. try to look busy doing something
d. try not to make eye contact because they don't want to do the work.

Thats being lazy.  Their tired and they would rather someone else do the work than them.

There is always going to be the dummies who are all "Come on guys lets go go go, there's no I in team! lets get it together yay".  Those are the fake people who look like ass's cause their over doing it.
There's also the troops who when the instructors need something difficult done can scan the crowd and say 'You, your not afraid of hard work and your not an idiot, i need this done'.

Another point about always volunteering is that when the instructors constantly see YOU with your hand up they will say 'no your always volunteering' and end up picking someone else who hides from work.

You don't need to go out of your way so the every staff member knows who you are and your name but I still think it's  important for them to be able to look at you and recognize that your a hard worker, not lazy and not afraid of work.  There is an art in being a hardworker without being a keener.

When I've wrote assessments I've given above standard to soldiers who when I've said " I need volunteers to.." they were already up and moving.

I think in the end it depends on what you classify as the grey man.  I use it to describe a soldier who goes out of their way not to get noticed, pull their weight or stand up for themselves.

 

[Infanteer101]

While reading through some of the posts I thought of the following incident, true story but names have been changed (yea yea I know...)

Somewhere in the middle of the course after having finished the range serial on the 3 day field ex at lunch, the platoon WO comes to us with the results and congratulated a few with "you'll make an infanteer yet" until he passes this one guy who looked even alien to us. He passes him and then in an instant stops and does a 180 and approaches him. He says "And what creature might you be in God's fine domain?" He answered "Pte. Blow warrant." The WO says "Blow eh? grey man...get down and give me 20." Saying this the Pte went straight down and starting pumping and the WO left. The WO returned 20 mins later, to find a very tired Pte. Blow struggling and shaking in a half-a** push-up position. The WO says "Blow, what are you still doing down there?" the private answers "Er..warrant?" The Warrant laughs and says "Oh get the **** up son, I got a special assignment for you." The WO takes him. We see him around 2200 hrs (almost 8 hrs later) looking like he just went through a s**t storm, we asked him where he had been and he said that the warrant wanted to get to know him better since he had not been previously introduced to him and he helped fill the grey water sites around the training area for 6 other platoons and of-course supper picket duties. We tried not to laugh and I said, "Well, looks like you aren't grey anymore cuz from the looks of it your green is showing." He let out a weak smile and said "I guess not but do you think the warrant hates me?" One of us said "Oh not at all, but you really do have a special place in his heart and that's for sure."

From that experience, it showed that while sometimes you can in fact slip under the radar but get shafted in some way or another later on...somehow and somewhere. The staff isn't oblivious to their students and they make sure in their own way to take special care of them in their own way. Heck people who claim to have been grey men get it some way or another at a point in their careers and when they do get it, they get it good! It is better to work as a team player and help another without being asked and don't be so oral about it because with that comes future contact with the same people and the underlying theme as many have pointed out is "How do you want to be remembered?"

Cheers

 

[rifleman]

I got the opposite impression from the last two poster, I'm kind of with Ghost.
I noticed that if people see someone else being pro-active and volunteering, getting right in there, the rest of the course picks up the pace a bit too and everyone benefits as a result.

You don't have to blade the entire course in the process of course but if no one else is going to step up and you've got the drive to do so, I say go for it; it drives me nuts to think that people should feel a need to be a grey man because no one else wants to give it hard the whole course.

There's nothing wrong with being the grey man, but it's detrimental to everyone if there's some silent agreement that everyone must be the greyman.

I think there is a confusion about what being grey means. It doesn't mean you are lazy or have no drive. It means you do things for the good of the group without the need to be recognized. It means not looking like a know-it-all but still giving assistance. If you are not helping, you are a blade or a slacker...certainly not grey.

 

[winchable]

Ah yes, then we do differ on definitions of the greyman.
See to me that's not being the greyman, that's just being a good soldier and I've never heard every good soldier called a greyman.

To me the greyman was the recluse, the guy who did exceptionally well on the written aspects of the course but when it came time to actually do something they slinked to the back of the pack or looked down at the ground, hid in the bathroom stall when it was time to clean up (hated that guy).

Opposite end of the spectrum is the ex-cadet who sees himself as the de-facto course leader and makes every attempt to prove he's the alpha-male (oddly enough, only when the Course WO is around). Now odds are he's going to volunteer and always shout words of encouragement and do things etc. etc. but he'll blade you if you get leadership duties so by comparison he looks better (worse than bathroom hider).


GO's right, the best bet is to find a happy medium.

 

[DG-41]

And I still don't agree, even with the revised definition.

The ability to lead is a rare and precious gift. Real leaders, when they do their thing, improve the effectiveness and efficiancy of the unit they are leading - both by helping things run more smoothly, and by setting the example for the other people in the unit. Leadership inspires, raises morale, and makes life better for everyone.

If you happen to be a troop who posesses some degree of leadership ability, you owe it to yourself and your fellow troops to use it. The "grey man" is selfish; he seeks to avoid failure by keeping his talents to himself. He is a coward; he seeks to avoid failure and punishment by never assuming risk.

The leader seeks to be the best troop he can possibly be, and he seeks to aid (however he can) his fellow troops to achieve the same goal. He is not interested in praise or glory but in effectiveness. He is willing to put the mission ahead of his personal comfort and desires. He helps his fellow troops not out of ambition or for appearences, but because it is the right thing to do.

Be that man. Be the man who tries. Be the man who LEADS.

Will you step on your dick in so doing? Almost certainly. Nothing in your civvie life will have given you the skills you need to be an effective soldier, and it is normal and natural that you will make mistakes. That is why you have instructors - they are there to put your feet on the right path. Sometimes that will hurt, but pain and humiliation is just weakness leaving the body. The man who avoids all correction is cheating himself of experience.

Don't be the "grey man".

DG

 

[Synthos]

You have to be careful and be sure you really know what being a good leader entails. It can get annoying when someone is yelling at his course mates over and over without due reason, or yelling too harshly, or single-ing people out, or being hypocritical... etc.. Make sure you lead *well*.

 

[rifleman]

To me the greyman was the recluse, the guy who did exceptionally well on the written aspects of the course but when it came time to actually do something they slinked to the back of the pack or looked down at the ground, hid in the bathroom stall when it was time to clean up (hated that guy).

That wasn't being grey, thats a egg-head and a shirker

 

[medicineman]

"The "grey man" is selfish; he seeks to avoid failure by keeping his talents to himself. He is a coward; he seeks to avoid failure and punishment by never assuming risk."

The true grey man is furthest from that - they are the people that accomplish what needs to be done within their group and with themselves, often above and beyond, but do it without being overly/overtly noticed.  Instead of being the person who finishes his task and goes and asks for another, they finish their task and then jump into another one or help someone else with their work without feeling the need to inform people what they're doing - they just do it.  Unless things have changed significantly since I did recruit training (I liked it so much that I did it again when I rollled over to the Reg Force), "getting noticed" was pretty much what you didn't want to happen to you, as it generally resulted in something rather negatively impacting on your day, week, or duration of training.  Some things resulted in positives, but they were generally few and far between.  The person you just described is nothing more than a bone idle tool at best and a self centered careerist at worst.

MM

 

[George Wallace]

I see that there are large variances in the impressions/definitions of what the "Greyman" is.  My definition is more in line with medicineman's.

The guy who shirked any duties and hid in the bathroom wasn't the "Greyman", he was the 'Crse Plug'.  We even had a lovely badge of honour for such types; a cord with a large sink plug at the end of it.

Of course, I could be wrong and thinking of the "Greyman" and not the "Grayman", but I am sure we will come to some concensus somewhere in this discusion.  ;D

 

[rifleman]

the Gray man is American and Grey man Canadian