Berets vs. ball caps, which do recruits wear?

[Prairie Cowgirl]

Ok, here goes.  I did a search on naval uniforms, but couldn't quite find an answer to my question.

Can someone tell me what the whole deal is on the berets and the navy ball caps?

I was at my unit last night, and found out that apparently new recruits (or everyone??) need the navy ball caps. I finally have my uniform, and they're going to get me a cap.

Do recruits wear the ball caps when they're on parade (ships deck on drill)? I haven't seen anyone wearing them, but then again I've been at night school mostly. I've already asked training tons of questions, so was wondering if someone could clear this up for me.

When do we were the caps, and when do we wear the berets. That's my question.

Thanks 

 

[navymich]

The berets are what you will wear the majority of the time, and they are what is worn for "walking out dress".  The ball caps are worn onboard ship and in dockyard.  That being said, all of the NRDs also have a ball cap and will advise you when to wear them, as it is different between units.  I know when I was still at my unit, we were only allowed to wear them within the confines of our boatshed area, or out on the water.

To be sure of what is expected of you, you should ask either the person issuing you the ball cap, or (more preferable) your direct supervisor.

 

[Prairie Cowgirl]

Thanks, I guess I also get confused about where to wear the ball cap because the building is also called a "ship".  Then there's the "ship's deck"....

I will clarify what I'm supposed to wear this weekend at my first aid course.  I can wear civvies, so I don't have to worry about that yet at least. 

I'm anxious to wear my uniform, I finally picked up my boots today 

 

[navymich]

...because the building is also called a "ship".  Then there's the "ship's deck"....

A "stone frigate" to be exact.  But yes, they use all of the typical naval terms within the NRDs.  You'll get used to it in no time.  Personally, I'm trying to get it all out of my vocabulary!  Check out this site to help you brush up on your terms.

 

[Prairie Cowgirl]

Thanks again. 

I guess the reason for us wearing the caps is because we don't know how to wear the berets yet.

See I'm also more familiar with army terminology, because my hubby is a Mcpl. 

So he doesn't really know much about navy stuff. 

 

[FredDaHead]

A "stone frigate" to be exact.  But yes, they use all of the typical naval terms within the NRDs.  You'll get used to it in no time.  Personally, I'm trying to get it all out of my vocabulary!  Check out this site to help you brush up on your terms.

STONE BOATS DON'T FLOAT!

Sorry, just had to throw that in.

 

[Rhibwolf]

I guess the reason for us wearing the caps is because we don't know how to wear the berets yet.

Having spent a lot of time in the Army before going Navy, I think its fair to say that there is a definite difference in how the various elements wear a beret.  I have noted that in general, however, many sailors never really learn how to wear berets.  In any case, a ball cap is a much more practical piece of kit when working.

 

[navymich]

STONE BOATS DON'T FLOAT!

Sorry, just had to throw that in.

And the point of stating that fact is....?  Whether they float or not isn't relevant.  NRDs are treated as a ship, with the traditions and terminology of a ship in order to teach and train, and retain, naval life.  There are decks and bulkheads, you salute crossing the brow, some even have piping systems in them for routine pipes, you get dinner from the galley etc.

Rhibwolf, I concur with what you said.  Especially when sailing, a ball cap is much more practicable.  If you have it worn just so, it won't blow off in the wind or flap around like a beret, it shades your face from the sun, and I know the guys like it because they can hide when they don't get a haircut!!

 

[NCS_Eng]

And the point of stating that fact is....?  Whether they float or not isn't relevant.  NRDs are treated as a ship, with the traditions and terminology of a ship in order to teach and train, and retain, naval life.  There are decks and bulkheads, you salute crossing the brow, some even have piping systems in them for routine pipes, you get dinner from the galley etc.

Its an RMC reference. 1 SQN is called the "Stone Frigate" and its common for the rest of the Cadet wing to yell that at them. It has nothing to do with NRDs.

At least thats what I got out of that comment. I don't know if they still do that at RMC or not.

 

[Rhibwolf]

"Stone frigate" is a nickname for a naval establishment on land. The term has its origin in Britain's Royal Navy, which until the late 19th century housed training and other support facilities in hulks — old wooden ships of the line — moored in ports as receiving ships, depot ships, or floating barracks. The Admiralty regarded shore accommodation as expensive and liable to lead to indiscipline. These floating establishments kept their names while the actual vessels housing them changed. For example, the gunnery training school at Portsmouth occupied three ships between its foundation in 1830 and its move ashore in 1891 but all were named (or renamed) HMS Excellent.
As ships began to use increasingly complex technology in the late 19th century, these facilities grew too large to continue afloat and were moved to shore establishments while keeping their names. An early "stone frigate" was the engineering training college HMS Marlborough, moved ashore to Portsmouth in 1880. The gunnery school continued to be named HMS Excellent after its move ashore to Whale Island in 1891. By World War I there were about 25 "stone frigates" in the United Kingdom.
The practice continues in the Royal Navy and some other navies of the Commonwealth of Nations, including the Canadian Forces Naval Reserve, the Royal Australian Navy, and the Royal New Zealand Navy.
The Stone Frigate at Royal Military College of Canada in Kingston, Ontario was constructed in 1820 to store part of the dismantled fleet from the War of 1812. The former warehouse was converted into a dormitory and classrooms when the college was established in 1874.

From wikipedia

 

[Drummie]

Its an RMC reference. 1 SQN is called the "Stone Frigate" and its common for the rest of the Cadet wing to yell that at them. It has nothing to do with NRDs.

At least thats what I got out of that comment. I don't know if they still do that at RMC or not.

Yep, it is an RMC reference, and we still get it a lot, like when we're going to win the Cmdt's Cup at the end of the semester, one will likely hear many shouts of from the rest of thw wing to the effect of "Stone Boats don't float". 
We just suck it up b/c we know know other sqn comes close to the excellence of the Stone Frigate Military Academy , housed in HMCS Stone Frigate.

 

[FredDaHead]

We just suck it up b/c we know know other sqn comes close to the excellence of the Stone Frigate Military Academy , housed in HMCS Stone Frigate.

Right, and I'm a Vandoo.  : 

 

[TAS278]

Someone mention it isn't just dockyard...


ANy building where the authority has been giving also including Stadacona and Naden bases...

 

[Phrontis]

"Stone Frigate" may be a term used at RMC, but it didn't orignate there, nor is it exclusive to RMC.  Rhibwolf's account above refers.

But getting back to the topic of headdress which started this thread, it strikes me that the wearing of the peak cap in the Navy is becoming less and less frequent.  I often see people in salt & peppers with berets on now.  Don't you think the peak cap is a far more naval cap?

 

[niner domestic]

Actually, The Stone Frigate of RMC is a building left over from when the area was officially a Royal Dockyard.  As Rhibwolf sets out, the actual building being referred to as the Stone Frgate was a naval wharehouse.  Sounds like the Ocdts, didn't do their reading of Richard A. Preston, Canada’s RMC. A History of the Royal Military College of Canada,University of Toronto Press, Toronto, 1969.  And if you don't have time to read the school's history the short version is at: http://www.journal.dnd.ca/engraph/Vol2/no3/pdf/13-20_e.pdf Also read some of Andy Endacott's authorship on the naval bases and Royal Dockyards of the UK,
Plymouth Dockyards, have their own Stone Frigate as one of many seen throughout the country. 

And Fred, A boat made out of Pumice Stone would in fact, float.  Sail in and around Tonga and Fijii and you will see all sorts of pumice "rafts" floating in the water.

http://yacht-maiken.blogspot.com/2006/08/stone-sea-and-volcano.html

 

[navymich]

But getting back to the topic of headdress which started this thread, it strikes me that the wearing of the peak cap in the Navy is becoming less and less frequent.  I often see people in salt & peppers with berets on now.  Don't you think the peak cap is a far more naval cap?

It is allowed to wear the beret in salt & peppers now, but I too agree that it doesn't look as good.  Sure, it's much easier to pack and transport the beret then the peak cap or boler, but it just doesn't have "the look" to it.  Not that I was always fond of the boler either, but it looked sharp, in the black and white.  I keep saying that if I picked an element based on their dress uniforms I'd still be Navy!

Then you get the COs on the bridge while coming into port wearing salt & peppers with their ballcaps!!  Now that looks awful!

 

[NavyShooter]

Salt n peppers, with ball-cap, plus NCD Jacket......always a favorite...

Not to mention closing up part-ship hands with Short-Sleeve White Shirts on (at least the nametags didn't need to be there)....

On a ship, especially on deployment, with other countries, sometimes things get....changed.....

NS

 

[navymich]

Salt n peppers, with ball-cap, plus NCD Jacket......always a favorite...

And the oxfords added SO nicely to this ensemble too.  :